Can I use just a UHF antenna?

[Mr Tony]

Going to be getting into the OTA HD game soon and have a goofy question

Here in Minneapolis, we have the 4 nets + PBS on VHF 2, 4, 5, 9, 11. There are a few channels on UHF too. However, all the digital channels are UHF. My existing outdoor antenna is a small Rat Shack model (VU-75). I also have a huge UHF only antenna (U-120) that we used at the cabin for analog.

Since all of the digital channels are UHF, can I use that antenna instead?

 

[navychop]

If you are willing to forego the analog VHF channels, yes. Some UHF antennas will pull in the higher VHF channels to varying degrees of success, so you may get some reception on 9 and 11.

HOWEVER, you need to check your stations to see what band they'll be transmitting in after the digital transition. Some current UHF stations will move back to their VHF slots.

 

[Mr Tony]

But don’t the -1 numbers have pretty much the same as their analog counterpart?

I just checked and as an example, NBC (11) has 2 stations
11-1 is “KARE 11 local/NBC HD”
11-2 is weather plus

Their digital channel is 35…so I should be able to see the SD channel with a UHF antenna?

 

[Mr Tony]

Here is what antennaweb said. Disregard everything in purple because its wrong. The only station in that batch I could get is 41. The rest they're smoking something. The rest are too far away and the only way to get those is to put a 200 foot mast up

 

[gjh3260]

Iceberg......I live in New Brighton and am using a Zenith Silver Sensor UHF Indoor antenna to get my local OTA HD. I am close to the Shoreview towers (approx 5 miles) and have no trouble getting all the digital channels with excellent reception....2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 23, 29, 41(a little problem with that because its from Big Lake) and 45.

Seeing I was very close to the towers I was hoping to be able to use an indoor antenna and the Zenith works great. I had a Terk 5 initially and returned it (some reception problems and way overpriced).

 

[Pepper]

In most cases channel NNN-1 is usually a simulcast (sometimes HD) of the analog channel. The exception I have found is PBS where -1 is PBS-HD (completely different programming) and -2 is the simulcast of analog SD.

In the antennaweb report, ignore the "channel numbers" - what you are interested in is the column on the far right, frequency assignment. This is actually what channel you will need to receive to get the digital.

Basically what navychop said, you need to find out if they are planning to ever move from those UHF channels back to the original VHF slots once the analogs go away.

 

[Peter Parker]

You might want to check to see if all of those VHF ststions intend to use the UHF channel after analog broadcasting ends. The channels 9 and 11 that you list might choose to keep their VHF locations. I am unaware of any lower VHF channels (2-6) wanting to keep that frequency but some upper VHF stsstions want to keep their original location.

 

[navychop]

If you go to this link you will see a ref near the bottom with a zip file containing digital channel election info in spreadsheet form. From it I see KARE will move it's digital channel from 35 to 11, and KMSP will move from 26 to 9. So basically, I think you'll do best with a combo antenna, not just UHF.

That being said, you already have the UHF and I'd certainly see if I could get it to work before I'd drop cash on a big ugly monster. This is coming from someone who just put up a big ugly monster on his roof.

AH- the consistency question. Nope, only sometimes. Many stations currently transmit just one program at a time on their digital channel. So channel 5.1 near DC is the same as channel 5 analog. There currently is no channel 5-2 being broadcast here. Channels 7 & 9 analog are rebroadcast as 7-1 & 9-1 digitally, with 7-2 & 9-2 being weather maps or such. But, just for grins and giggles, WETA Channel 26-1 is their "HD" slot, when they transmit what they like to call HD. Their 26-2 slot generally matches their 26 analog program. SD of course. Then during the day they also transmit other programming on 26-3 & 26-4, and all 4 programs are SD. At night 26-1 is generally "HD" with another program, SD, on 26-2. Fixed banners are sent on 26-3 & 26-4 at night. Unfortunately, this doesn't quite work, and the multicasting detracts from the "HD" program's PQ.

Some stations around the country habitually put their SD program simulcast on analog and the "-1" slot, and their "HD" if they have it, on "-2." And then we have channel 66. They slice up their digital channel slot into 6 SD programs. I've heard of stations trying 8 programs multicast in one channel assignment.

The digital version of the SD program almost always looks better than the analog version, in my experience.

So you can see the SD program on the digital channel, currently in the UHF band. But at least 2 of the stations will move to VHF later.

 

[navychop]

Oddly enough, per the link I posted above, the most popular VHF channel to revert to is 5, followed by 2! For those who don't know, the lower VHF band (2-6) is poor for digital TV. And 2 is absolutely the worst possible choice!

We are the only country that has kept the VHF band available for digital TV. VHF takes larger transmit and receive antennas, has propagation problems, but also takes less power to transmit. UHF requires more power, but has smaller antennas. Of course, there are other factors. But the FCC and Congress kept the VHF because they felt the higher UHF frequencies would bring in more money at auction.

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks for all the info guys!

Gjh…I’m in Shakopee so I probably will need the outdoor antenna

I’ll see what kind of signals I get with the smaller antenna. I know the analog comes in fine.

 

[Mr Tony]

That being said, you already have the UHF and I'd certainly see if I could get it to work before I'd drop cash on a big ugly monster

the antenna is in my garage (the big one). We brought it back from the lake when we got Dish up there.

ugly? Hell it would fit right in with the 2 30" dishes, the 36", the 37x27, the Dish500 and the 6 foot C-Band dish

 

[navychop]

So it'll bring UP the neighborhood?

 

[Mr Tony]

nah. The neighbors don't care and you can't see the "farm" from the front of the house or the road.

 

[iafirebuff]

I have used the Rat Shack 75mile UHF with excellant results!

 

[Mr Tony]

sometimes we make things so friggin difficult.

stick the u-120 vhf/uhf on the roof. if you want to dx signal add a rotor.

rick
The U120 is UHF only. The existing antenna i have (VU75) is a combo unit. That was the reason I asked the question

 

[Tower Guy]

Yes, either antenna will work fine until at least February 17, 2009.

To find out the real DTV subchannel programming in your area, enter your location into www.titantv.com.

Digital stations may be either HD or SD. Digital SD is still far better than analog.

HD can be downconverted in a set top box and viewed on a standard TV set.

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks guys for all the info

 

[neil_kc1]

my understanding is that most of the new digital signals will occupy the uhf frequencies all across the country. Here in kansas city we only have one digital signal that is still using vhf. that is 1 out of 25 channels

 

[bhelms]

True, but as navychop is trying to point out - those may not be the final channel selections. Per the link he provided, some of the stations that are currently experimenting on UHF are applying to move back to VHF. A good example is our "local" (25 miles away) ch 10 (analog). Their current DTV transmission is on 32.2 (maps down to 10.1), but according to the link navychop provided, they're hoping to move back to channel 10 (DTV). Knowing that helps in planning for the future antenna...