Can I use a Hopper (all 4 tuners) with OTA on same cable, and Joey?

[Bobby]

Ok, then a "node" is a piece of hardware, independent of the existing dish antenna, and the hopper/joeys?

That is correct... It sits between the dish and the receivers.

 

[boba]

That is correct... It sits between the dish and the receivers.

The NODE is part of the Hopper system, the Hopper won't work without it.

 

[harshness]

Ok, then a "node" is a piece of hardware, independent of the existing dish antenna, and the hopper/joeys?

Sure, you could say that, but so is a remote control.

 

[Waterskier1]

Sure, you could say that, but so is a remote control.

My point is that this "Node" does not exist within the Hopper, it is additional hardware to the hopper/joey boxes/Dish 1000 antenna.

 

[Centex]

My point is that this "Node" does not exist within the Hopper, it is additional hardware to the hopper/joey boxes/Dish 1000 antenna.

That is correct. Without getting pedantic, the node acts as a router for your Hopper/Joey system. As others have said, it is installed between the Dish and the hopper. Single hopper systems use a Solo node, 2 hopper setups use a Duo node. The node is what separates the signals into specific bandwidths to carry carry multiple streams on a single cable. The system has to have a node even if it is a single Hopper and no Joeys.

We have a service closet that all of the cables come into. That is where our node lives. 3 cables come in from the Dish antenna, and the various cables go out to their respective Hoppers/joeys.

 

[harshness]

Without getting pedantic, the node acts as a router for your Hopper/Joey system.

Again not true. The node acts as a band stacker (as DPP does, but to a greater extent).

The node picks out 2-1/2 transponders from four available (thanks to two DPP feeds) and stacks them on a single cable. It also accepts a MoCA backfeed from the Hopper and provides single outlet for the MoCA network (a non-routed data networking scheme).

The dumbing down must be true or it is just dumb.

 

[JosephB]

Again not true. The node acts as a band stacker (as DPP does, but to a greater extent).

The node picks out 2-1/2 transponders from four available (thanks to two DPP feeds) and stacks them on a single cable. It also accepts a MoCA backfeed from the Hopper and provides single outlet for the MoCA network (a non-routed data networking scheme).

The dumbing down must be true or it is just dumb.

Of course, he said "without getting pedantic". For an average Joe, calling it the "router" even though it's not really doing any routing is a good way to describe its role in the system. Even my 53 year old mother knows what a router is, and what people call "routers" these days at home aren't truly just routers but also wireless access points and switches and sometimes modems too.

 

[Waterskier1]

Ok, I guess this is like an enhanced version of what I now call "Triplexer" which "stacks" two sat antenna feeds onto a single coax, along with OTA signals. I'm getting the overall idea how this works. I realize that many people don't care to know these details, but I feel it necessary since I will be installing or directing the installation if I choose to upgrade at this time. My biggest concern is getting both OTA and MOCA to two different locations, assuming I locate the Hopper(s) in the basement "service closet" where all three Dish antenna coaxes along with OTA antenna coax enter my house. And without tearing out ceiling/wall drywall to run new cable(s). I'm guessing that wireless Joeys might be the answer, with OTA on the existing coaxes from the "service closet" to current locations. That would allow me to still use my Tivo on Local HD (much better quality than Dish compressed Locals) to supplement the Hopper(s).

Now, I it's determined that I need two Hoppers to meet recording demands (and I'll have to confirm that I'll need two if I use one in Prime Time mode), can 2-3 wireless joeys access all the recordings/signals tuned on both Hoppers?

Thanks for taking the time to educate me on this new (to me) technology.

That is correct. Without getting pedantic, the node acts as a router for your Hopper/Joey system. As others have said, it is installed between the Dish and the hopper. Single hopper systems use a Solo node, 2 hopper setups use a Duo node. The node is what separates the signals into specific bandwidths to carry carry multiple streams on a single cable. The system has to have a node even if it is a single Hopper and no Joeys.

We have a service closet that all of the cables come into. That is where our node lives. 3 cables come in from the Dish antenna, and the various cables go out to their respective Hoppers/joeys.

Of course, he said "without getting pedantic". For an average Joe, calling it the "router" even though it's not really doing any routing is a good way to describe its role in the system. Even my 53 year old mother knows what a router is, and what people call "routers" these days at home aren't truly just routers but also wireless access points and switches and sometimes modems too.

 

[JosephB]

Ok, I guess this is like an enhanced version of what I now call "Triplexer" which "stacks" two sat antenna feeds onto a single coax, along with OTA signals. I'm getting the overall idea how this works. I realize that many people don't care to know these details, but I feel it necessary since I will be installing or directing the installation if I choose to upgrade at this time. My biggest concern is getting both OTA and MOCA to two different locations, assuming I locate the Hopper(s) in the basement "service closet" where all three Dish antenna coaxes along with OTA antenna coax enter my house. And without tearing out ceiling/wall drywall to run new cable(s). I'm guessing that wireless Joeys might be the answer, with OTA on the existing coaxes from the "service closet" to current locations. That would allow me to still use my Tivo on Local HD (much better quality than Dish compressed Locals) to supplement the Hopper(s).

Now, I it's determined that I need two Hoppers to meet recording demands (and I'll have to confirm that I'll need two if I use one in Prime Time mode), can 2-3 wireless joeys access all the recordings/signals tuned on both Hoppers?

Thanks for taking the time to educate me on this new (to me) technology.

The simple fact is that no, you cannot diplex OTA onto the same coax that is carrying signal to/from a Hopper or Joey.

This PDF is really, really great at explaining all the different components of a Hopper system (with the exception of Super Joeys): http://www.collinsdistribution.com/techservice/Whole_Home_Install_Configurations.pdf

The frequency plan for a Hopper system is the following:
Satellite: 950 MHz to 3 GHz. MoCA: 650 MHz to 875 MHz.

OTA in the US is on two bands: VHF: 54 and 216 MHz, UHF: 470 and 890 MHz.

Most channels these days are in UHF, so you're going to step all over the MoCA signal when you try to diplex OTA into the mix.

Since the Hopper is a server/client system, you only really need OTA at the Hopper location, not all of the Joeys, so maybe that will help simplify. And if you put Joeys (or even super joeys) at the TVs, you can re-use RF distribution cabling to distribute the MoCA signal.

 

[JosephB]

I just re-read your post to try to better understand.

A couple of questions: How many tuners do you need active at one time (including both recording and viewing live TV)?

Are you OK with getting rid of the TiVo if you can do OTA on the Hopper, and distribute the Hopper's live TV and recorded TV to all locations?

Depending on those, you're probably in good shape with a Hopper in your basement and a Super Joey in the location of your 612. With that setup, 2 satellite tuners will be at the location of your 612, 3 satellite tuners + 1 OTA tuner will be at your Hopper in the basement, and the other TV location(s) will get their programming to a regular Joey via MoCA over coax. If everything is home-run back to your basement, no re-wiring should be necessary. You might need to swap out Whole Home Video Distribution stuff (like amps) with regular splitters, but otherwise should be in good shape.

And the box you want to keep for your RV, just put it in the RV. I wouldn't try to include it in this setup, it will drastically complicate things.

 

[harshness]

OTA in the US is on two bands: VHF: 54 and 216 MHz, UHF: 470 and 890 MHz.

In the US, UHF tops out at just under 700MHz now that the DTV conversion is essentially complete. Subsequent to the DTV conversion, both the FCC and CRTC have passed rules that will eventually take UHF channel 51 out of the picture through attrition.

Then end result, as you asserted, is a small overlap between the OTA and DISH's E-band MoCA (there is a big overlap with AT&T's D-band DECA) so planning on using both is generally not a good idea. With DOCSIS cable modem technology reaching up into the 1.3GHz range, diplexing cable isn't a good plan either.

If OTA is critical in all locations, an independent system should be run as all of the other technologies (CATV, DBS and MoCA) are infringing. MoCA is perhaps the most dangerous as its relatively high-power signal can damage equipment that isn't designed to block the frequencies.

 

[JosephB]

In the US, UHF tops out at just under 700MHz now that the DTV conversion is essentially complete. Subsequent to the DTV conversion, both the FCC and CRTC have passed rules that will eventually take UHF channel 51 out of the picture through attrition.

Then end result, as you asserted, is a small overlap between the OTA and DISH's E-band MoCA (there is a big overlap with AT&T's D-band DECA) so planning on using both is generally not a good idea. With DOCSIS cable modem technology reaching up into the 1.3GHz range, diplexing cable isn't a good plan either.

If OTA is critical in all locations, an independent system should be run as all of the other technologies (CATV, DBS and MoCA) are infringing. MoCA is perhaps the most dangerous as its relatively high-power signal can damage equipment that isn't designed to block the frequencies.

Yeah, I learned so much about this because I was trying to diplex my cable modem onto a Hopper network and obviously that couldn't work. Technically it could have, since my cable modem is syncing to channels in the low 600mhz range, but I would have needed a filter to block anything above 700mhz, and of course there was no way to be sure that the cable company wouldn't want to switch me to other channels in the future. DOCSIS technically gets up to 1.3Ghz, but most cable systems are in the 900-950mhz range max.

Either way, I think the OP is going to be best served by a Hopper with an OTA module and not trying to get the OTA signal itself to all of the various locations, and just relying on the Hopper doing the tuning and sending programs out via clients and MoCA.

 

[harshness]

Either way, I think the OP is going to be best served by a Hopper with an OTA module and not trying to get the OTA signal itself to all of the various locations, and just relying on the Hopper doing the tuning and sending programs out via clients and MoCA.

If the previously undisclosed TiVo is to remain part of the mix, some manner of OTA distribution will be necessary at least at the TiVo location. For that, a separate cable should be pulled.

As I said, it is much, MUCH more important to know what the end game is than what's in play at the moment.