Can Dish Network survive as a company?

[ekilgus]

There are also lot's of people who have not bought a new TV in years. My father likes to brag that he has never bought a new TV. Also, a lot of people buying HDTVs wouldn't know HD if it hit them in the nuts. Or, they don't care. SDTVs have been hard to find, so of course people have been picking up HDTVs. That doesn't mean they are immediatlely going to go shopping for additional HD programming.

And while Fox is broadcating in digital HD, it is very easy to downconvert to SD. pleanty of customers ale already getting that as Dish and Direct prepare for the digital transition.

We are the early adoptors, and we are the most educated. Just becuse HD adoption will increase doesn't mean everyone will educate themselves to our level on HD.

Sorry but I don't share your opinion of lot's of people plunking down hundreds of dollars for HD TV's and being too stupid to realize what they've bought. A report indicated that HD TV's are already in more than a third of all households and that it will increase to more than 50% by the end of next year.
Even your father will eventually end up with an HD TV. It's only a matter of time and in your father's case, how much time is a matter of how stubborn he is.

 

[Ronnie-]

Sorry but I don't share your opinion of lot's of people plunking down hundreds of dollars for HD TV's and being too stupid to realize what they've bought. A report indicated that HD TV's are already in more than a third of all households and that it will increase to more than 50% by the end of next year.
Even your father will eventually end up with an HD TV. It's only a matter of time and in your father's case, how much time is a matter of how stubborn he is.

You would be suprised. I would say 60% of older people that I know that own a flat screen HD set, have basic cable or SD sat pumped into it and think it is HD (until you tell thiem different that is). Just because someone owns a HD set doesnt mean they know what HD is. Its just that HD capable sets are 90% of what you can buy these days.

Go to a best buy or other electronics store one weekend day and just listen to the questions asked (and the answers given for that matter). Many people just dont have the info

 

[Fear 2 Stop]

Sorry but I don't share your opinion of lot's of people plunking down hundreds of dollars for HD TV's and being too stupid to realize what they've bought.

Sadly, I take escalated calls from customers who did exactly that and don't understand that if you don't have HD programming, you aren't watching HD.

 

[HDRoberts]

Sorry but I don't share your opinion of lot's of people plunking down hundreds of dollars for HD TV's and being too stupid to realize what they've bought. A report indicated that HD TV's are already in more than a third of all households and that it will increase to more than 50% by the end of next year.
Even your father will eventually end up with an HD TV. It's only a matter of time and in your father's case, how much time is a matter of how stubborn he is.

Plenty of people have been plunking down hundreds for SDTV for a very long time. If a third of all households have HDTV, why aren't a third of all Dish customers HD customers? Instead, it's more like 10% (at least last I read).

Plus, there are plenty of people that have never plunked down hundreds for a TV. As others buy HDTVs, I'm sure my father will keep finding SDTVs at garage sales and in the classifieds to keep him going.

People are idiots. Myself included. It's a fundamental rule. we are just idiots about different things. There are millions of technology idiots out their that will keep SDTV going for long time.

 

[KAB]

I've run into a few older folks who believe the digital transition with turn SD tvs into HDTVs.

 

[CorpITGuy]

I've run into a few older folks who believe the digital transition with turn SD tvs into HDTVs.

I've run into satellite/cable subscribers who think their SD TVs will just stop functioning in February....

 

[nrholland]

I've run into a few older folks who believe the digital transition with turn SD tvs into HDTVs.

My wife thought that for a while until I informed her of what the DTV transition really was.

 

[Islandguy43]

If DISH wanted to compete in the sat industry they could start something new that would floor the competition. They could eliminate all dvr fees with dvr advantage and eliminate all additional receiver or lease fees upto 6 tuners or 3 dual tuner receivers. Then they could advertise the fact in a new campaign that showed DISH that they were helping AMERICA in these recessionary times by eliminating excess fees. They could also advertise the best dvr in the market as well. THis would ATTRACT new subs ,either off the street or from the competition , who would come to DISH because they would of eliminated the extra cable like fees.

Back in the early days of this decade they had NO DVR fees on the 501/508 dvr series and 721 dvrs . Back then they advertised this fact every chance they got and added a slew of new subs. Volume is the answer in these bad times. Sat companies depend on new subs to keep in business. You can't just keep adding more fees on existing subs to make up for the lack of new customers. Eventually they too will churn for the company that offers what they want for LESS money. DISH is actually HIGHER than DIRECTv if you use all hd dvrs and don't sub to AEP. DISH needs to return to its' roots . They were against cable like fees and now they are the worst in the industry for them.

5.98 PER DVR FEE
5.00 NO PHONE CONNECTION FEE
6.00 FOR SD ADDITIONAL RECEIVERS
7.00 FOR HD ADDITIONAL RECEIVERS
39.99 for external hard drive access on 612/622/722 dvrs
39.99 for external hard drive access on 211k receivers

Pay per views are also higher ;
4.99 sd pay per views
5.99 sd pay per views recorded on DISH portion of hard drive
5.99 hd pay per views
6.99 hd pay per views recorded on DISH portion of hard drive

Compare to DIRECTV
5.99 per HOUSE DVR FEE
FREE if no phone connected
4.99 per additional receiver fee for sd AND hd receivers
FREE if you add own external hard drive on any hd dvr.

Pay per views -last time I checked in June.
3.99 for sd movies
4.99 for hd movies
Similar price for downloaded movies from internet.

You wonder why DIRECTV is doing so much better than DISH today and it isn't because of more hd? It is the fees baby. DISH has become the SAT Cable fee king. Hd helped them attract some new subs but only 23 % of the country has an hdtv in their homes , so this is not the reason why DIRECTv is kicking DISH's ass.

DIRECTV also has better advertising with big stars and the message is witty and incorporates some of the most well known movies in history. Yes their dvrs suck in comparision to DISH's but I am sure that this won't be for ever. They have now redone a deal with TIVO to make new tivo directv dvrs.

They are also in more outlets than DISH, including both Circuit City and Best Buy. THen there is the ease of adding programming without needing an accounting degree to figure out what you are subscribing to. ONE 9.99 tech fee on any hd receiver and you get all the channels in your programming pack -including family pack. ONE dvr fee per account unless you sub to their dvr advantage pack version. They also don't charge you 10.00 for extra hd pack of channels -only 4.99.

Charlie might better reconsider pricing some of these fees in order to attract new subs . If he doesn't reconsider his fee structure he might find his sub count continuing to drop in every quarter. The Recession is forcast to last till spring of 2010 or later. THIS is the time to grab more customers and make them DISH subs. He could always go back up on his fees later once the economy recovers.

But Dish still has what Direct can never deliver and that is the 722 Dual Tuner DVR , which will do PIP., and coming soon the new 922 with builtin sling box.

 

[CorpITGuy]

It just occurred to me that a good deal of people here think DTV=HDTV=16x9.

This is fairly technical stuff, and people have allowed themselves to become pretty uneducated about the modern technology involved here--probably because pay-TV is so popular and the end-user no longer has to do his own tech support.

 

[ekilgus]

Plenty of people have been plunking down hundreds for SDTV for a very long time. If a third of all households have HDTV, why aren't a third of all Dish customers HD customers? Instead, it's more like 10% (at least last I read).

Plus, there are plenty of people that have never plunked down hundreds for a TV. As others buy HDTVs, I'm sure my father will keep finding SDTVs at garage sales and in the classifieds to keep him going.

People are idiots. Myself included. It's a fundamental rule. we are just idiots about different things. There are millions of technology idiots out their that will keep SDTV going for long time.

As reported in Multichannel News HDTV Sets Now In More Than One-Third of U.S. Homes: Survey - 11/12/2008 10:55:00 AM - Multichannel News HD penetration is in more than one third of US homes, not 10%.

As I stated earlier, there will always be those who are best suited to living in caves but for the vast majority HD will be the rule and just because you know some old guy that doesn't understand HD doesn't at all mean the majority don't. My father-in-law is 76 and he certainly knows what HD is and further more, he likes what he sees.

No one is born with an inate understanding of this technology, they need to acquire it either on their own or by having it explained to them.

 

[MikeD-C05]

But Dish still has what Direct can never deliver and that is the 722 Dual Tuner DVR , which will do PIP., and coming soon the new 922 with builtin sling box.

THis is true but we are talking about DISH. Echostar makes the 722 & 922 dvrs along with all DISH receivers. Echostar has always had cutting edge technology. They can , as a seperate company , create these same receivers for DIRECTV or even cable. They also create receivers for Bell Expressvu in Canada. DISH needs to change the way they nickel and dime fee their customers to death if they are to compete with DIRECTv or even rise above them.

 

[Cyclone]

Can Dish survive as a company?

As long as 13 Million customer keep paying about $60/mo (more or less), then I would have to expect that they can eek out a living.

 

[Ronnie-]

, why aren't a third of all Dish customers HD customers? Instead, it's more like 10% (at least last I read).

.

As reported in Multichannel News HDTV Sets Now In More Than One-Third of U.S. Homes: Survey - 11/12/2008 10:55:00 AM - Multichannel News HD penetration is in more than one third of US homes, not 10%.

.

While I dont doubt that a third of US homes now have HD tvs, he was saying that around 10% of Dish customers get HD programming. Two different subjects. Again, just because someone has a set, does not mean they have HD programming. I look for the number of homes with HD sets to go up dramatically if for no other reason, thats what is being sold these days

Edit: From your own link:

“About 40 million U.S. households now have at least one HDTV set, and LRG forecasts that this number will double over the next four years,” Bruce Leichtman, president and principal analyst for Leichtman Research Group, said in a prepared statement. “While more people than ever before have HDTV sets, educating consumers on HD programming remains an issue.”

 

[navychop]

HD awareness, and sales of HDTVs, will increase next year. Why?

Just think about it. What happens when JSP & his wife turn on their analog 4x3 TV the evening of 2/18/09? What is going to be different from what they watched the evening of 2/17/09? Let's assume they're cable customers and don't need to fiddle with converter boxes.

Well, when they watched a prime time network show on the 17th, they likely saw the program from a local analog station in 4x3. Think "Desperate Housewives." On the 18th, they'll be seeing the local digital station feed in 16x9. Letterboxed. Never mind HD. They're going to see what is to them a smaller picture. It will be a motivator for them to buy a widescreen TV, perhaps one just a bit larger than they have. Some percent of this type of viewer will be inclined to buy a new TV over the months following the transition, while others will just "adjust."

For some reason, a lot of people don't like letterboxed. They want their entire screen filled. So long as there's still narrow screen and wide screen both (i.e.- until long after we're all dead), they'll have to make a tradeoff between letterboxing and pillars. Or both.

More awareness of HD, and more HDTVs, pave the way for more subscribers to HD service. Dish will get their share.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I hate and despise letterboxing on my tv screen. I want to see all of my tv screen that I paid for. I especially hate it when my Blu-ray player does this on 16 x9 movies. I watced the Dark Knight and it went from 16 x 9 on some indoor scenes to full picture on outside scenes. It drove me crazy. I don't see why we can't just specify in the menu and get what we want. Full screen for me and black bars for the those who want them.

 

[ekilgus]

While I dont doubt that a third of US homes now have HD tvs, he was saying that around 10% of Dish customers get HD programming. Two different subjects. Again, just because someone has a set, does not mean they have HD programming. I look for the number of homes with HD sets to go up dramatically if for no other reason, thats what is being sold these days

Edit: From your own link:

“About 40 million U.S. households now have at least one HDTV set, and LRG forecasts that this number will double over the next four years,” Bruce Leichtman, president and principal analyst for Leichtman Research Group, said in a prepared statement. “While more people than ever before have HDTV sets, educating consumers on HD programming remains an issue.”

I don't know the exact numbers of hd subs for Dish either but there's Direct TV to consider as well as all the cable and other providers. Then there are people I presume that are content with HD OTA and/or Blu-Ray. Whatever that number of people that receive/watch HD is, one compelling certaintly is that number will never shrink and is only getting larger.

 

[Ronnie-]

I don't know the exact numbers of hd subs for Dish either but there's Direct TV to consider as well as all the cable and other providers. Then there are people I presume that are content with HD OTA and/or Blu-Ray. Whatever that number of people that receive/watch HD is, one compelling certaintly is that number will never shrink and is only getting larger.

I totally agree with you that the number of people with access to HD and that watch it will continue to rise. No doubt about that whatsoever. I still stand beside my point that as of now, there are many people that have these sets that dont understand or have HD content.

But again, as you said, that will change with time

 

[dishcomm]

I have been wondering recently whether or not Dish Network can survive as a company?

The reason I ask this question is recent past history is showing that it looks like we won't be getting our 150 National HD channels this year. We hear all kinds of unhappy customers out here in the forums complaining about various issues. Dish Customer service seems to have been sent overseas. Not much in the way any NEW national channels either in SD or HD.

Charlie Chats are more and more of a infomercial like like it was say 5 yrs ago where they announced whats going on in the company, programming annoucements (remember when years ago Charlie use to promise at least 1 new channel a month on his chats?), plenty of customer Q & A etc.

Now with the economy in recession tough times are ahead. Could Dish become another Primestar?? Could DirectTV be the only company in town in the future?

I'm not complaining I've been a customer of Dish since 1998 and to this day cannot say I'm really that dissatisfied with their service and never really had any major problems with them.

This is just questions I'm wondering and was interested what customers thought.

Please no flaming.

Bob

yes there are complaints. "All kinds"? Sure. But if you are limiting yourself to info gathered here , you're not getting a very broad sampling.
SO what if Dish is behind on the Do you not think the possibility exists that the company is working to that goal? And if you pleae, show the thread where Dish claimed 150 HD chanels by 2009...Thank you in advance.
I can save you the time. The ads say "up to" 150 HD offerniongs by the end of '08...
Relax...Your HD is coming.
No this will not be the end of Dish. Nor is it sending Dish in that direction....
Not a flame... Just telling it honestly....

 

[tomcrown1]

I've run into satellite/cable subscribers who think their SD TVs will just stop functioning in February....

I know mine will, I will throw a baseball at it on 2/24/09 to make sure that happens.

(I will woop up my birthday that way)

 

[HDRoberts]

I totally agree with you that the number of people with access to HD and that watch it will continue to rise. No doubt about that whatsoever. I still stand beside my point that as of now, there are many people that have these sets that dont understand or have HD content.

But again, as you said, that will change with time

Totally agree with this. It will take time for people to be HD experts. Thus, it isn';t as urgent as we think for providers to add HDTV.

While in Feb, many will be pissed with letterboxing and maybe then buy a HDTV, they will probably be content to just stretch the image, and won't bother getting HD. If fact, I bet most won't realize it's not HD.

Even if people finally start subbing to HD packs, they will probably still stick to cable and be content with 20 or so HD channels. I stand by what I said: People are idiots.