Buyers remorse about getting 1 Hopper vs 2 Hoppers?

[Jhon69]

My take is when we first heard about the system DISH was pushing the whole home solution with Hoppers and Joeys and the new PTAT tech that would solve the WH viewing problem for a majority of its customers. At the time we were told that Hopper had 3 tuners and could support 3 Joeys (4 TVs) and if needed a second Hopper would add 3 more tuners with seemless integration. Then the arguments went back and forth about why DISH limited Hopper to 3 tuners, many said why put the money in the boxes for more tuners when a majority of DISH customers would never use it, a second Hopper could always be added. I believe early on Scott even said they were looking at the possiblity of a 6 tuner box if there was enough demand for it. Same arguments were made for lack of OTA integration and Sling IIRC (add it later coming soon). We were all drooling and then we got closer to launch and the announcement was made that Hoppers wouldn't integrate at launch and OTA would be coming later too. I think the biggest problem is that DISH CSR training (or lack thereof) and computer module setup seems to be geared toward limiting customers (new or upgrades) to 1 Hopper unless more than 4 TVs and makes it difficult to add second Hopper and that's where the buyer's remorse is coming from rather than having a CSR actually try to figure out the customers needs based on vieing habits and number of eyeballs in the household (2 people with 4 TVs is much different than 5 people with 4 TVS, yes?). Rather than pushing PTAT as panacea as they are (and I understand it is a marketing thing and DISH is gambling that it is) they should be giving the CSRs a card to read that says "You have ONLY 3 tuners 90 % of the time and the other 10% you have 2 tuners + 4 PTAT channels". As far as the cost for a second Hopper being a deal breaker for many customers: Too bad, you WANT it, you BUY it. At $200 for new customers and $100 for upgraders for a second Hopper, they're practically giving it away. Unless of course for some reason you don't qualify for upgrade price, that's another story.

They would be giving it away if after you pay $200. or $100. you would "own" it? you don't,this is an upfront lease fee when you cancel DISH they want it back! and you get to pay $15. to send each box back to them.

It also seems that DISH thought with PTAT no one would want or need OTA? Guess they guessed wrong again!.:rant:

 

[datwell]

A local retailer can configure a 2H/0J config.

Sent from my iPad 2 using Forum Runner

issacmorseMI:A few questions

1) Are your sure about this?

2) Do you know what it would cost to upgrade?

3) As this is not officially supported by Dish, I wonder if I would have stability issues or problems with software updates?

#3 is a concern. I wonder if any others have a 2H/0J config and if so, what has been their experience?

 

[patmurphey]

#3 is not an issue.

 

[navychop]

....So in turn you get sales people going around pushing this garbage (IMHO), and making people think this is all they need and never even go as far as to mention the fact that a second hopper could be required or is even an option.

I have been doing Dish Network sales for almost 15 years now, I can tell you right now that the limitations of the number of tuners is not even being told to customers. Their may be a disclosure required to be read to the customer, but I doubt the customer even understands what the disclosure means.

Its the same thing we used to go through with customers who wanted to watch and record a show on their 722. Sales people would say you can record 2 things without an issue. Tv 1 can record 1 thing and TV2 can record the other

Let's see now. Dish has, for many years, sold 1 and 2 tuner boxes. Now they sell a 3 tuner box and you think this is bad? Not enough? How many people have more than one STB today? For most folks, this is an increase in tuners, IMHO. If they're a multi-box family, they understand more already than probably most of Dish's customers. And getting a second Hopper or Joeys will not seem that different to them than getting a second STB of the pre-Hopper variety.

I will move from 4 sat tuners across two boxes to a 2H/0J or 2H/1J configuration, my choice. Or I'll quite happily stay with what I have. Maybe Dish did a study and learned that people with 4 sat tuners rarely used more than 3 of them. Or maybe they didn't. Either way, I will move to what I want, or keep what I have. It's my money. But I won't complain that a Buick isn't a Cadillac. It is what it is. Don't complain that it isn't what you think it should be. That's like spitting upwind. Useless, and not good for you.

 

[KAB]

Let's see now. Dish has, for many years, sold 1 and 2 tuner boxes. Now they sell a 3 tuner box and you think this is bad? Not enough? How many people have more than one STB today? For most folks, this is an increase in tuners, IMHO. If they're a multi-box family, they understand more already than probably most of Dish's customers. And getting a second Hopper or Joeys will not seem that different to them than getting a second STB of the pre-Hopper variety.

I will move from 4 sat tuners across two boxes to a 2H/0J or 2H/1J configuration, my choice. Or I'll quite happily stay with what I have. Maybe Dish did a study and learned that people with 4 sat tuners rarely used more than 3 of them. Or maybe they didn't. Either way, I will move to what I want, or keep what I have. It's my money. But I won't complain that a Buick isn't a Cadillac. It is what it is. Don't complain that it isn't what you think it should be. That's like spitting upwind. Useless, and not good for you.

Amen, Brother, Amen!!!

 

[drwatson618]

Dish tried to talk me out of 2 Hoppers. They kept saying I would be fine with one Hopper and 3 Joeys. I was adamant about getting 2 Hoppers until they gave up on trying to sell me on one.

 

[navychop]

Good. When/if they try that on me, I'll remind them who's paying.

Probably go to a local retailer, anyway, if they're interested in an upgrade job. I don't think they make as much on upgrades. And the guy I bought from 11 years ago has long since stopped handling Dish, and I believe is now out of business.

 

[scottydsntknow]

I almost switched from DTV to Dish this coming weekend but after learning about only having 3 tuners, and then even if I do get 2 Hoppers they can't talk to each other... yeah... I'm sticking with DTV and its ridiculously superior whole home setup. Even with my older HR24 that can only do 2 programs at once, each TV has its own independent tuner so I never have to worry that I'm going to have to fight with the wife or kid over being able to watch live TV. Not sure why in the blue hell Dish didn't do it like Direct did... maybe when they get the Hoppers talking to each other and not $200 on the install for the second Hopper I'll take a look again but even then I dunno.

 

[TheKrell]

3 tuners are cheaper than 6. Simple as that.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

3 tuners are cheaper than 6. Simple as that.

Bingo we have a winner!

 

[DodgerKing]

3 tuners are cheaper than 6. Simple as that.

The main issue isn't 3 tuners or 6 tuners in one box, it is the lack of tuners in the Joey. Since the Joeys depend on the Hopper's tuners, anytime a Joey is being used that is one less tuner available for the Hopper and your whole home system.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The main issue isn't 3 tuners or 6 tuners in one box, it is the lack of tuners in the Joey. Since the Joeys depend on the Hopper's tuners, anytime a Joey is being used that is one less tuner available for the Hopper and your whole home system.

A tuner in each Joey would then make the receiver a 211 which kind of defeats the entire moca thing.

 

[n0qcu]

A tuner in each Joey would then make the receiver a 211 which kind of defeats the entire moca thing.

No, it would be more like a 211 that does MOCA. But then you'd need a "HOST" type port on the node for EVERY device and no splitters or taps could be used.
I think what the system does the way it does is good, is it perfect? NO

 

[sparc]

No, it would be more like a 211 that does MOCA. But then you'd need a "HOST" type port on the node for EVERY device and no splitters or taps could be used.
I think what the system does the way it does is good, is it perfect? NO

and all the wiring requirements would have to go back to using properly rated RG6 rather than being able to use RG59 on the joeys.

 

[patmurphey]

I almost switched from DTV to Dish this coming weekend but after learning about only having 3 tuners, and then even if I do get 2 Hoppers they can't talk to each other... yeah... I'm sticking with DTV and its ridiculously superior whole home setup. Even with my older HR24 that can only do 2 programs at once, each TV has its own independent tuner so I never have to worry that I'm going to have to fight with the wife or kid over being able to watch live TV. Not sure why in the blue hell Dish didn't do it like Direct did... maybe when they get the Hoppers talking to each other and not $200 on the install for the second Hopper I'll take a look again but even then I dunno.

I am truly enjoying the HR34 implementation threads on this and other forums. My 2 Hopper/2 Joey 3 TV system has been trouble free (and
fast) and I am using the extra Joey for whole house integration until the software is ready - 6 tuners, 9 during PTAT.

 

[navychop]

Let's see. You can buy a system with 3 sat tuners. Or with 6 sat tuners. Or with 9 sat tuners. And the last two give you some redundancy. And that's not even considering PTAT. I seriously doubt there is significant demand for more than 9 sat tuners.

The problem is really one of the extra hoops one must jump thru to get 2H/0J or 2H/1J installations. Yet it can be done. And I'd say there's a good chance that eventually Dish will relent and make it just as easy to get those configurations as any other. I don't want a 6 sat tuner box, as I prefer redundancy. I can see where some would want 6 sat tuners in a single box. Perhaps that will trundle along in a year or two.

This Hopper/Joey system we see today isn't the final product. I think they've made it pretty clear it's a new platform they will build upon. There will be more options and more apps in the future. There will be OTA support via USB. And if ATSC changes to include MPEG-4 or Ultra HD or some future flavor of 3D, such a device can easily be retrofitted to H/J via USB or Ethernet. Maybe there will be a future box to incorporate sat or cellular (or other) Internet with a built in router, so you don't need an external Internet source. It's an open ended system, not a closed one. It has the potential to leave the DirecTV whole home system in the dust.

Add to that the best EHD system in the business (kept me from moving to FiOS).

 

[Jhon69]

Let's see. You can buy a system with 3 sat tuners. Or with 6 sat tuners. Or with 9 sat tuners. And the last two give you some redundancy. And that's not even considering PTAT. I seriously doubt there is significant demand for more than 9 sat tuners.

The problem is really one of the extra hoops one must jump thru to get 2H/0J or 2H/1J installations. Yet it can be done. And I'd say there's a good chance that eventually Dish will relent and make it just as easy to get those configurations as any other. I don't want a 6 sat tuner box, as I prefer redundancy. I can see where some would want 6 sat tuners in a single box. Perhaps that will trundle along in a year or two.

This Hopper/Joey system we see today isn't the final product. I think they've made it pretty clear it's a new platform they will build upon. There will be more options and more apps in the future. There will be OTA support via USB. And if ATSC changes to include MPEG-4 or Ultra HD or some future flavor of 3D, such a device can easily be retrofitted to H/J via USB or Ethernet. Maybe there will be a future box to incorporate sat or cellular (or other) Internet with a built in router, so you don't need an external Internet source. It's an open ended system, not a closed one. It has the potential to leave the DirecTV whole home system in the dust.

Add to that the best EHD system in the business (kept me from moving to FiOS).

Well my "Dream" Hopper would have 4 satellite tuners,but it would have the MT2 slot available to accept the MT2 Module for a total of 6 tuners (4 SAT+2OTA) and it would need builtin WI-Fi.That's my dream and I'm sticking to it!.

 

[patmurphey]

Well my "Dream" Hopper would have 4 satellite tuners,but it would have the MT2 slot available to accept the MT2 Module for a total of 6 tuners (4 SAT+2OTA) and it would need builtin WI-Fi.That's my dream and I'm sticking to it!.

The advantage to Dish with the current Hopper/Joey system (when fully mature with Hopper integration and USB OTA) is that the same 2 boxes in different combinations can solve the needs of 99% of their HD customers.

 

[digiblur]

3 tuners are cheaper than 6. Simple as that.

It was cheaper up front to implement a 3 stream solution.

Think about it... DirecTV did their 5 stream module with 3 tuners.

 

[navychop]

Well my "Dream" Hopper would have 4 satellite tuners,but it would have the MT2 slot available to accept the MT2 Module for a total of 6 tuners (4 SAT+2OTA) and it would need builtin WI-Fi.That's my dream and I'm sticking to it!.

But I'd have to say I prefer the USB OTA tuner approach. Let someone else develop the hardware when/if ATSC standards change, and adapting it will be easy.