BUG Report: L186. Cannot Lock all OTA channels.

[A_Noland]

Well this update bit me. I haven't had my 921 on for several days, but the last time I did have it on it was on an OTA station. When I turned it on tonight, it was locked up, I could get to the menus, but couldn't get a picture on any stations. I did the "pull the plug" reboot. I could get Satellite stations, but no OTA. When I tuned to an OTA it locked up the tuner. So I deleted all OTA stations and rebooted (pull the plug style). I tried doing a DTV scan, it found 1 stations only. Basically the tuner was locked up. Couldn't tune anything. Pulled the plug again. (Now I'm getting pissed.) This time it doesn't even finished booting up before locking up. Plug pulled. This time it reboots and does extra resting because the video is in 480p when done instead of 1080i. I try adding channels that I've been able to record in the past. Amazingly it works. I'm able to add all but 2 of the channels that have always worked before.

I try to add KTUL (10-1, PSIP 8-1, 8-2) and KJRH(55-10, 2-1) but cannot. Both channels show a strong signal but can't "Lock". KTUL is a channel that I haven't been able to record or use PVR functions. KJRH is the one network channel that has always worked. KOTV is the other channel that wouldn't record. I can view it, but still can't record.

Always before I've been able to watch all the OTA channels even though I couldn't record some of them. Now I can't even watch.

Anyone else having similar experience?

 

[A_Noland]

Update.

I was playing around trying to get the stations to add and discovered that the stations would lock for a split second before changing red and not locking. I was actually able to hit the save button in that spit second and add the 2 channels. I can watch the channels now without any problems.

Very Strange.

 

[Mark_AR]

I gave up trying to get my OTA HD to lock. I had a 75 signal then it would bounce below 49.

I disconnected the RG-6 and left it hang. I'll just have to live with CBS-HD East until they get it right. !protest

 

[boy921]

Do the broadcasters provide PSIP in the digital signal? If not, this is the most likely reason that keeps the channel from locking. See the NAB web site for details. http://www.nab.org/scitech/psip/default.asp

 

[ranny]

I haven't been able to watch local channels for weeks. Same problem.

 

[jcord51]

I live in New York City and for Channel 7 ABC, I have a signal strength of steady 96 without a lock. I had no problems locking in with 185 software. Even without the lock I'm able to view the channel but get "acquiring signal" message. NYC is going to combine all their signals into one transmitter. No one knows when this project will be over with.

 

[A_Noland]

I live in New York City and for Channel 7 ABC, I have a signal strength of steady 96 without a lock. I had no problems locking in with 185 software. Even without the lock I'm able to view the channel but get "acquiring signal" message. NYC is going to combine all their signals into one transmitter. No one knows when this project will be over with.

try what I found above, type the channel number in and press the down button. AS SOON as it moves, hit select. Mine would lock for a split second and the save would happen before the signal strength bar would turn red.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I have had my ABC station(Kbmt channel 12 in Beaumont ,Texas) suddenly go from a steady lock at 91 strength, go flakey yesterday. I have been able to watch this station for the last month since I got the 921 and yesterday it no longer locks in. The station fluxuates wildly from 95 down to 81 and then turns red and then locks and back. I tried the antenna made no difference. I have had a timer set up daily for this channel and it worked like a charm untill yesterday. I don't know what has happened . Maybe the channel itself has changed something in their signal but this seems to happen a lot with people with their digital ABC stations. I have read other people in other parts in the country having trouble locking in their ABC stations as well. I wonder if it is something that Abc is doing on their signal?

 

[jcord51]

I did a power reset and was able to lock in Channel 7 (45) ABC with a signal of 96, but when you save and then return to the guide it doesn't display. Today I have no lock on the station at all. Anyone else in New York have any luck?

 

[boy921]

I did a power reset and was able to lock in Channel 7 (45) ABC with a signal of 96, but when you save and then return to the guide it doesn't display. Today I have no lock on the station at all. Anyone else in New York have any luck?

It should display in the all channels or all subjects menu. No OTA channel will show in any other list.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I have had my ABC station(Kbmt channel 12 in Beaumont ,Texas) suddenly go from a steady lock at 91 strength, go flakey yesterday. I have been able to watch this station for the last month since I got the 921 and yesterday it no longer locks in. The station fluxuates wildly from 95 down to 81 and then turns red and then locks and back. I tried the antenna made no difference. I have had a timer set up daily for this channel and it worked like a charm untill yesterday. I don't know what has happened . Maybe the channel itself has changed something in their signal but this seems to happen a lot with people with their digital ABC stations. I have read other people in other parts in the country having trouble locking in their ABC stations as well. I wonder if it is something that Abc is doing on their signal?

Update 8/06/04: The channel came back yesterday and is working fine like it did before last Sunday. It looks like it was the station itself and not the 921.

 

[TheForce]

Mike- it was the station. But it was the 921 and all other receivers that need PSIP to assist in channel display. We did the tests here with 3 local channels lacking PSIP. No lock. then PSIP was added and instantly it locked. Prior to L186, the 921 didn't require PSIP for OTA channel lock. With L186, this became necessary.

There are quite a few parameters that PSIP adds to the Digital stations. I don't know which of these is what is snooped for in the 921 but I would guess it's the channel number remap assignment. Call sign and clock data are also included in the fixed data. but in the variable data, program guide and Closed Caption is sent.
PSIP is a recommended standard subset of the ATSC signal. It has not yet been adopted as a regulated standard by the FCC. It is currently under consideration and all commentary for pros and cons to FCC making it a requirement closed in May.

Because of the need for PSIP to be present for stations to be seen on many receivers, and the fact that without it stations are in violation of the Closed Caption law, many stations w/o PSIP are ramping up their schedule for inclusion, regardless of the FCC ruling that is pending. Our's here had a late 2004 schedule but with some arm twisting on my part, specifically, a threat to report the station for CC violations, that schedule was moved up with dispatch!

While I feel all receivers should have a work around to receive non-PSIP channels (HDTIVO does), once PSIP becomes a regulated requirement, the whole issue will be moot.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So basically, most of the ota channel problems are related to the PSIP requirement of the 921 and the non standards of the different channels in the country. When the PISP becomes standard will this fix all the ota channel problems with the 921 and the hd tivo?

 

[TheForce]

So basically, most of the ota channel problems are related to the PSIP requirement of the 921 and the non standards of the different channels in the country. When the PISP becomes standard will this fix all the ota channel problems with the 921 and the hd tivo?

Sorry to disappoint you but the universe is not black and white even though it may appear that way when one looks into the night sky. .
Properly implementing PSIP at a station will fix that station's issues that are causing PSIP related problems. I would NEVER say that "MOST of OTA channel problems are caused by lack of PSIP and the non-standards of different stations around the country. " "all the OTA channel problems" is way too broad a category to make that claim.

 

[boy921]

Sorry to disappoint you but the universe is not black and white even though it may appear that way when one looks into the night sky. .
Properly implementing PSIP at a station will fix that station's issues that are causing PSIP related problems. I would NEVER say that "MOST of OTA channel problems are caused by lack of PSIP and the non-standards of different stations around the country. " "all the OTA channel problems" is way too broad a category to make that claim.

Hi Don, I think that you a pretty, pretty, pretty close to proving the problem. There may be some other factors other than lack PSIP but I think the lack of PSIP is the major offender. Do you think that the L187 will fix this issue?

 

[TheForce]

I think (strictly gut feeling) that PSIP requirement is a step in the direction to achieving Dishes plan for NBR and OTA guide info. Keep in mind PSIP was not a requirement for station reception prior to L186. It is unlikely that future 921 updates will revert back to No PSIP required, but I could well be wrong on this part of the guessing game. You asked for my opinion and that's it but my logic is not guaranteed to be what Eldon and E* are doing, or planning to do.

As for proving that L186 required PSIP for locking the signal on OTA DT channels. I firmly believe the tests run with and without PSIP clearly shows it is a requirement, whether intended or not. For it not to be would be borderline statistical miracle considering the tests done.

 

[hzhao]

I have the same strength OTA signals for all my receivers (2x811, 911). THe 811 has no problem to lock on the OTA channels. But, with 921, it takes so long to get the picture, sometime, it even had truoble to lock on the channel. I checked signal strength are around 80. Anyone else experienced that?

 

[boy921]

Just to note, I had trouble with signals on the 921 being 85 or less. Unlike my 6000, the same signal is around 68. Now the 6000 has a meter to 100 whereas the 921 meter goes to 125. Putting an in-line amp on the 921 boosted the signal strength to 95 to 100 and things seem better.