BSC 621 issues

[kb2kir]

Just got my BSC 621 from Sadoun.
My BUD is aimed at G10r I'm not receiving ANYTHING. I am sure my look-angle is correct for my location, as I had a 42" General Instruments commercial dish on this sat. getting Ku. with 65-74% quality with a $7.95 (new) LNB from Ebay.
Cable length: 60'
Receiver: Coolsat 6000
Settings:
Satellite: G10r
LNB Power: on
LNB Type: Universal
LNB Freq: 5150/10.750
22Khz : AUTO
DiSEqC Switch: Off
Legacy SW: Off
Cable is plugged directly into receiver, no switches in line.
I used a Sat Finder meter to peak the dish as I have with the others.
Mesh size in dish is 3/16"
What have I done wrong??
Joe

 

[SatelliteAV]

Here are the settings that you need to use for the BSC 621

Satellite: G10r KU
LNB Power: on
LNB Type: Standard
LNB Freq: 10.750
22Khz : ON
DiSEqC Switch: Off
Legacy SW: Off

Satellite: G10r C
LNB Power: on
LNB Type: Standard
LNB Freq: 5.150
22Khz : OFF
DiSEqC Switch: Off
Legacy SW: Off

 

[kb2kir]

All righty then, I set up a user selectable sat called g10r-c, entered the freq and SR and your suggested settings, now getting 62% quality on blind scan.
Set pre-set g10r for Ku, getting 62% quality on blind scan. I think 62% is too low?? I'll work on tweeking the lnb placement. Maybe the goons that set the dish up originally have the support arms out of true. I'll do a string test, and measure scalar ring position. Getting dark here, will pick up again Saturday, AM .
THANK YOU!!! for your guidance, Some progress has been made.
Joe

 

[Anole]

BSC621 on Ku again

I'm always interested when someone new tries out the BSC621 LNB, especially on KU.
So keep us informed.
You may know that some Ku failure has been attributed to ham-handed tightening of the Ku connector.
That's easy to detect by just giving the LNB a slight twist, peaking it on any bird.

Also, could you tell us a little about the BUD you have it on?
I'm wondering if the low signal is due to the fact that it's not really suitable for Ku?


...and maybe you could also change the topic to reflect BSC621 and Ku or whatever the main point was...
That way, when we try to find this info next time, we'll know which thread to look in.
Thanks.

 

[kb2kir]

Anole,
Funny you should mention ham handed, When I removed the unit from the box, it was loose already, presumably from shipping, so I set the Ku section 90 degrees to the C section as depicted in a picture I found looking down inside the unit. Since my last post, I ran outside and tweeked the LNB location (slid it toward the dish) and did a blind scan. I now have 72 C band channels, some with audio, none with video (scrambled). And a bunch of radio channels with no audio, also scrambled.
So at least I'm barking up the right tree concerning dish geometry.
No ku whatsoever.
The dish is 9 feet, old, and made of Aluminum mesh with 3/16" round holes. Still need to do string test and scalar ring measurements and adjustments.
Is the Ku passing right thru???
Not sure what you need me to do with the thread, if you educate me, I'll correct my mistake.
Thanks,
Joe

 

[gabshere]

this was the way i did mine found the c band and marked the lnb housing with a marker while finding the limits of c band reception while moving it around in out everything. then switched my setup for the ku then switched to a different color marker and went from the parameters set by c band and found the best signal within those marks and marked them and locked it down.
i had to set two satellites for each i wanted c band and ku on but works great

 

[voomvoom]

I only played briefly and went on to something else. But I couldn't get both the C-band and ku-band to work in the same position. I could get both to work, but not together (at the same time). So I could watch C-band and when I wanted to watch ku-band, I had to go out and re-adjust the lnbf. If I wanted to go back to C-band, I had to go out and re-adjust the lnbf. This was on a 1.2m dish. I will eventually get back on the project, when my mind leans in that direction. For some reason, I always follow my mind? And right now it's elsewhere, and I'm with it, where ever that is?

Al

 

[kb2kir]

I was just thinking, for what thats worth, if one were to adjust the C-band section for optimum signal, then loosen the nut that holds the Ku band section and rotate it slightly to adjust the skew on it ......... I think I'll give it a try.
If I can get Ku to work at all. Anole feels that maybe the dish I have may not work for Ku, holes too big? Haven't spent too much time on it, I'll know more this weekend
Joe

 

[gabshere]

you can probably adjust it like that but mine only screws on one way so it won't lock down. So the adjustment is whole unit for me .

 

[MrTim]

I was just thinking, for what thats worth, if one were to adjust the C-band section for optimum signal, then loosen the nut that holds the Ku band section and rotate it slightly to adjust the skew on it ......... I think I'll give it a try.
If I can get Ku to work at all. Anole feels that maybe the dish I have may not work for Ku, holes too big? Haven't spent too much time on it, I'll know more this weekend
Joe

Please read the BSC621 technical bulletin for a good idea of how to get things back in line.

BSC621 technical bulletin

 

[kb2kir]

That's exactly what I did... looked like the right thing to do, I wasn't aware of the bulletin.
Thanks.....

 

[kb2kir]

Ok, had a chance to play with the bsc621.
I can only get the C band side to work.
As a quick and dirty test I took the $7.90 Ku LNB off my GI dish and Ty- Wrapped it to the scalar ring. Got Ku....
Prior to this I tried adjusting the unit on all axes.
In, out, up, down... no joy.
Does this mean the Ku section of the new LNB it toast??
Keep in mind it was loose upon delivery.
Joe

 

[ftarock]

This has been mentioned before, C and Ku are not in the same focal length. You can either get best C-band or best Ku-band, but not both at same time at best.
Once you get lock on C-band, move the dish few click, you will get Ku (assuming no thing wrong with the lnbf, LO setting is correct....).
Manufacture has been trying to make combo band lnbf, so far none works well.
Best is to use feedhorn, lnb.
I got this lnbf, re-sold it after using couple days.
Good luck.

Ok, had a chance to play with the bsc621.
I can only get the C band side to work.
As a quick and dirty test I took the $7.90 Ku LNB off my GI dish and Ty- Wrapped it to the scalar ring. Got Ku....
Prior to this I tried adjusting the unit on all axes.
In, out, up, down... no joy.
Does this mean the Ku section of the new LNB it toast??
Keep in mind it was loose upon delivery.
Joe

 

[gabshere]

well if your not satisfied with it and its within your return policy maybe you can return it or get an rma or store credit. personally i like it . i don't have all of my satellites peaked but on four satellites i get good readings on c band and ku at the same time on several others its a click off so i know it is a tuning problem. why i don't fix it at the moment is my dish is slightly off arc so the kus toward both ends are the one off a bit.

just an example 1'm using a coolsat 5000 and 7 1/2 ft mesh dish with the bsc621
on g10 i get
4181h 96% signal 97 quality
3954v 97% signal 94% Quality
while at the same time i can flip to the ku side via disqec switch and get
11.718v 97% signal 87-88% Quality
11.799v 97% signal 87-88% Quality

so i know it works , for me these are good numbers on the coolsat ,can probably boost it a point or two with a 10 or 12 fter.

 

[MrTim]

This has been mentioned before, C and Ku are not in the same focal length. You can either get best C-band or best Ku-band, but not both at same time at best.
Once you get lock on C-band, move the dish few click, you will get Ku (assuming no thing wrong with the lnbf, LO setting is correct....).
Manufacture has been trying to make combo band lnbf, so far none works well.
Best is to use feedhorn, lnb.
I got this lnbf, re-sold it after using couple days.
Good luck.

Of course C and Ku focal points are at different places. That's actually one of the advantages of the BSC621, the focal points inside the LNBF are at different places. See http://www.dmsiusa.com/documents/c-ku focal point.pdf.

These devices (regardless of who makes them) are a little more difficult than the average install. You see that some people have good success with them and others have problems. It takes a true hobbyist, experimenter if you will, to really appreciate this type of device. Combining C and Ku into one device is not easy. The engineers really did a good job on this one. The rest is up to you. It takes time to install these correctly. If you just put it up without testing and adjusting both C band and Ku band your results probably aren't going to be good. It does take time and patience. You'll also want to pay close attention to our technical bulletin at BSC621 technical bulletin.

One thing I do know, the BSC621 and BSC621-2 have been a great success for DMS International. Sales have far exceeded our projections.

 

[kb2kir]

Ok, I'll keep pluggin away at it and keep you informed of my progress
I'm not sure that the Ku section is even working as it was loose out of the box, maybe it got rattled too much?
Also while setting up, the lnb is plugged directly into the receiver as I seem to have better luck that way, then I put the DiSeQc and 22khz switches back in line.

Edit: I have also tried plugging direct into the Ku section and changing the settings in the receiver to no avail...
Thanks
Joe

 

[caddata]

...Of course C and Ku focal points are at different places...

I beg to differ on the multiple focal point theory. The more logical is the onion theory.

A parabolic reflector reflects everything that bounces off it to one focal point. It's not frequency dependant. Every reflected wave (light, sound, or electromagnetic), is reflected to the focal point and all are in phase with those of a like frequency. Something similar to an onion is created, with higher (shorter) frequencies at the center in a small spheres and lower (longer) frequencies outwards forming a larger spheres

A parabolic mirror or polished metal parabolic reflector reflects light into a ball with it's center at the focal point, not as illustrated in the PDF file. If their example was correct, different colors would be reflected to different points.

The radio frequency engineer's job is to calculate the proper waveguide dimensions so that the desired bandwidth can enter the waveguide. Once inside the waveguide, all the electromagnetic waves seek a resonate antenna so they can go to ground.

I believe that the 621 wave guide is not the proper diameter. I've never "miked" a Corotor (works equally for C and Ku) waveguide, but I' bet they aren't the same diameter.

Harold

 

[ftarock]

I am not an average Joe on satellite. I have been in the hobby for at least 15 years plus. But seems you doubt about what I know about satellite, I say no more.
Most of my equip are commercial built, receiving dc2, dvb qpsk, 8psk trellis, dvb-s2...
For one who is able to get 8psk trellis, the dish must be well tuned.
Anyways, I am glad that the combo c/ku lnbf is a great success for your company, but somhow for some reason, it does not work well for me.
Thank you...

Of course C and Ku focal points are at different places. That's actually one of the advantages of the BSC621, the focal points inside the LNBF are at different places. See http://www.dmsiusa.com/documents/c-ku focal point.pdf.

These devices (regardless of who makes them) are a little more difficult than the average install. You see that some people have good success with them and others have problems. It takes a true hobbyist, experimenter if you will, to really appreciate this type of device. Combining C and Ku into one device is not easy. The engineers really did a good job on this one. The rest is up to you. It takes time to install these correctly. If you just put it up without testing and adjusting both C band and Ku band your results probably aren't going to be good. It does take time and patience. You'll also want to pay close attention to our technical bulletin at BSC621 technical bulletin.

One thing I do know, the BSC621 and BSC621-2 have been a great success for DMS International. Sales have far exceeded our projections.

 

[Anole]

Well, I'm not taking sides, but I have read enough to know some people have had trouble with the part.
And, when I get one, I want to have the answer ready so I'll know what to do to make mine work.
These discussions bring those answers to light.



For all I know, some users with modest Ku performance may have non-Ku-optimal dishes.
Of course, if anyone puts one on a solid Birdview (8') dish, and has problems, then we'll have yet another data point.

 

[kb2kir]

Gentlemen,
I have yet to determine the cause of my problem....
I do not at this time know if it is the LNB or the positioning.
I would like to believe it's the LNB considering it's condition upon arrival, but I have not had a lot of time to really make a serious effort. All I am using is a cheap Sat-Finder, but it has filled the bill for 4 other Ku Sats and dishes
The 4th will be quiet at my home with the wife recovering from hand surgery.
I plan to spend as much time as required to get it working.

Info: the BUD is a Kaul-Tronics 8.5 foot mesh with 3/16" holes.
I did have time to string it and it was within 1/8".
The Chapperal mount was off 1/4" so I adjusted the support arms for equal distance at 3 places. The C band section works with 70%.
No signal strength on the Ku. More testing and adjusting is in order.
(In other words, wait for this dummy (me) to get his s*** together)
Happy 4th,
Joe