Blu-Ray replication costs equal to HD-DVD?

I have heard that HD-DVD is significantly cheaper than BD to replicate -- apparantly not:

Another BD myth shot down. :)

Not so fast! First, while I not condifent in this website I never heard of's "confidential sources" in replicating companies, I'll trust ProActiveMedia's public price list. But, WesleyTec cites the cost per GB as "proof" that BR is as cheap, if not cheaper, to replicate. Who cares what the cost per GB is? If HD DVD's use of more efficient audio and video codecs result in a comparable - if not better - quality with less space, the more important factor is cost per disk.

The mysterious "Plant #2" is the only source quote for a cost on DL Blu-ray discs - which the more highly rated BD movies have used - at $2.15 - $2.25 per disc. Since "Plant #2" is BD only, we have to use Plant #1's pricing of "DL HD DVD (30GB) right inline with SL Blu-ray (25GB) pricing" to guess a DL HD DVD price of $1.30.

Hmmm. A cost of $2.15-$2.25 to replicate a movie on DL Blu-ray, compared to a cost of only $1.30 for a DL HD DVD. I don't see "another BD myth shot down". :eureka
 
Sorry- a buck a movie is not a great price advantage for HD-DVD.
 
Not so fast! First, while I not condifent in this website I never heard of's "confidential sources" in replicating companies, I'll trust ProActiveMedia's public price list. But, WesleyTec cites the cost per GB as "proof" that BR is as cheap, if not cheaper, to replicate. Who cares what the cost per GB is? If HD DVD's use of more efficient audio and video codecs result in a comparable - if not better - quality with less space, the more important factor is cost per disk.

The mysterious "Plant #2" is the only source quote for a cost on DL Blu-ray discs - which the more highly rated BD movies have used - at $2.15 - $2.25 per disc. Since "Plant #2" is BD only, we have to use Plant #1's pricing of "DL HD DVD (30GB) right inline with SL Blu-ray (25GB) pricing" to guess a DL HD DVD price of $1.30.

Hmmm. A cost of $2.15-$2.25 to replicate a movie on DL Blu-ray, compared to a cost of only $1.30 for a DL HD DVD. I don't see "another BD myth shot down". :eureka

I think you need to re-read the article. You are using BD pricing for HD-DVD. You also can only compare one productions facilitys if they do both HD-DVD and BD. And as usuall with competition -- there are differant prices from differant replicating facilities. While HD-DVD replicating per disc is cheaper it is not signifacant enough to swing any studio. Especially when they are assured of considerably more sales on BD then HD-DVD.
 
The prices are going to come down soon enough. You just have to look at the content for now. Also, don't keep saying that Bluray keeps using older codec. I have seen MPEG2 Bluray - Tears of the Sun and VC-1 Bluray Superman Returns. Both are equally good. Also, once the AVC authoring tools mature, we will see more AVC movies also. I was told Casino Royale is going to be in AVC. I just bought a PS3 and am totally happy with it. I also glad there will be a lot of movies for it.
 
Yes, Prices to replicate are equivalent. However, there is subsidizing going on right now to help keep that cost the same. Retooling reproduction facilities for BD cost about 10X more than retooling an HDDVD facility according to industry white papers. If you do a search for reproduction facilities, you find:

1. Very few do both
2. There are more that replicate HDDVD.

S~
 
I wonder if BD uses the older codecs in order to save on production costs? That way they can keep the prices closer to HD DVD.

Codecs don't have anythig to do with edit: replication costs. edit: Replication costs are only what it takes to make the physical disk. Codec licensing would not have an impact on the cost to master and press a disk.
 
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Replication costs were never really the issue... It was the costs associated with converting a DVD factory to BD or building a new BD factory compared to HD DVD. But, many studios view the higher cost of building the factory as a plus to keep down piracy from china.
 
Yes, Prices to replicate are equivalent. However, there is subsidizing going on right now to help keep that cost the same. Retooling reproduction facilities for BD cost about 10X more than retooling an HDDVD facility according to industry white papers. If you do a search for reproduction facilities, you find:

1. Very few do both
2. There are more that replicate HDDVD.

S~

That seems like an incongruous assertion considering that at this point in time there is a much larger market for Blu-ray replication (remember all PS3 games are on Blu-ray disc) than would exist for HD DVD even if zero Blu-ray movies were released.
 
Replication costs were never really the issue... It was the costs associated with converting a DVD factory to BD or building a new BD factory compared to HD DVD. But, many studios view the higher cost of building the factory as a plus to keep down piracy from china.

You are correct that the higher costs discussed initially were capital costs for new equipment. However, you would assume that the end product of a new technology that requires significant new capital investment would be more expensive than an existing technology that only needs minor change parts. The capital cost for the new equipment has to be paid for by the gross profits of producing the product. If the replication prices are as close now as discussed in this thread, in a short time there will be no difference.
 
That seems like an incongruous assertion considering that at this point in time there is a much larger market for Blu-ray replication (remember all PS3 games are on Blu-ray disc) than would exist for HD DVD even if zero Blu-ray movies were released.

Aaahhhh, but Blu-ray is proprietary. Where are these PS3 games and who is mastering them? My guess is a very few replication facilities controlled by Sony.

1. Proaction (from original article): both
2. CDDigtal: HDDVD
3. DubHouse: HDDVD
4. TVV Productions (UK): HDDVD
5. Pacific Disc: HDDVD
6. Hellman HDDVD
7. emedia: HDDVD
8. reptek: both

The cost to set up 1 Blu-ray replication line is $3 million. The cost to set up 1 HDDVD line is $100,000. The real costs come in the glass master.

I am neutral and own both. The worry comes for proprietary technology. It has always been doomed in the past.

S~
 
"...1. Very few do both
2. There are more that replicate HDDVD...."


Considering Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD at least 2 to 1, plus PS3 games, this would imply huge overcapacity for HD-DVD- or the Blu-ray replication facilities have significantly greater capacity.


"...Replication costs were never really the issue......"


I believe I have the link at home, but IIRC there was an article from a year or two ago considering the actual costs to physically produce an HD-DVD disc vs a Blu-ray disc. They pointed out that the HD-DVD (& DVD) require two plastic platters sandwiching the aluminum disc with the data. All must be carefully aligned and bonded. The Blu-ray disc is one plastic disc with the data laid on top of it, aligning two pieces not three. It might then be spray coated. In short, considering the process only, the Blu-ray disc could be cheaper to manufacture than the HD-DVD. Note this is physical manufacture, and does not consider authoring, plant capital costs, etc. That plant must be paid for, bit by bit with each disc sold. I've read there are 8 BD replication plants today.


"...The cost to set up 1 Blu-ray replication line is $3 million. The cost to set up 1 HDDVD line is $100,000. The real costs come in the glass master...."


Is that all? Let's spread those costs over tens of millions of players and hundreds of millions of discs over many years. Just as a swag, let's say one plant produces 5 million discs per year, on average. I suspect they produce more, but this is a swag for very rough figures. That's 60 cents per disc. Figure a 10 year plant life, which again, is probably understated; that works out to 6 cents per disc. And that's assuming the Blu-ray plant costs $3M more than the HD-DVD plant, not $3M less $100,000. Double that cost figure if you think I've overstated the plant capacity, and it's still tiny. And that doesn't consider spreading ANY of the cost over the players. Very rough figures, I grant, but conservative. A cost difference of a nickel or a dime per disc does not translate into much, if any, price difference on the retail shelf. Perhaps more important will be the authoring, and those costs will decrease and probably become more or less equal.

And of course, for computer back up purposes, or any purpose using full disc capacity, the cost per GB is significantly less for Blu-ray.

Proprietary has sunk many a ship in the past, but Sony has licensed this out so there are actually more companies producing Blu-ray players than HD-DVD players. And Sony does not own/control all the BD replication plants, so they've licensed that out also.

I don't like Sony, but IF this trend of outselling HD-DVD more and more continues throughout the summer, Blu-ray will probably be the winner.

BTW, in 2002 it was reported that "...more than a billion DVDs have been sold over the past five years..." That's 200 million per year. Even with the decline in DVD sales, figure at least 100 million are selling per year, maybe still 200 million since there was some sales growth since 2002 (before the decline started -in 2005?). So if that rate is anticipated for the future, building a plant with 5 to 10 million discs a year capacity, for both movies AND PS3 games, is not unreasonable.
 
Aaahhhh, but HD-DVD is ALSO proprietary. As is the standard DVD too.

But, HDDVD is backward compatable, meaning that an HDDVD movie can be copied to a DVD-9 disc (although at a significantly reduced capacity and quality. BD cannot.

S~
 
Sorry- a buck a movie is not a great price advantage for HD-DVD.

I know I'm really late to this; but that's $1 / movie at wholesale. This translates into $5+ at retail.

Or, if you want to look at it this way; it costs half for a DL HD-DVD vs a DL BD. THat's substantial, and it could be subsidized pricing.

Cheers,
 
"...The per disc cost of BD-ROM DL is approximately 15 cents more than the HD DVD DL cost...."

Wholesale, from this link. So if we take your five fold increase, wholesale to retail, that's 75 cents per disc.

Or looked at another way, as in my 2/12/07 post above, we're spreading out the increased cost of the BD replication plant at about a dime a disc.

Plus, from a purely manufacturing cost, the BD disc could be cheaper than HD-DVD, not considering the plant. One plastic layer, not two. Less alignment/glueing. Spray on a coating. Costs will come down anyway, as they gain economies of scale and learn new techniques. My point is, the mantra that HD-DVD is so much cheaper is a weak argument. It isn't, not in the long run, not significantly.
 

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