Bird View setup
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...and here I am stuck with a BirdView HH mount, and nothing to do with it....
Need to do some fab work an set it up on a back fram for a Channel Master SMC 10-footer.
PS. check you're PM.
Here is a draft for a magnet wheel punch template, if anyone has any good ideas for revisions I can probably get them incorporated into a final version.
Here is a draft for a magnet wheel punch template, if anyone has any good ideas for revisions I can probably get them incorporated into a final version.
hmmm, I already see one issue, looks like it is 3 1/2" instead of 3 1/4". Next?
Hey guys, this may have already been suggested before and found not to work, and I just missed it, (I'm sure Linuxman could tell us) but my thought here...
If instead of mounting magnets on the wheel, you just drill holes in it and mount a single fixed magnet behind the wheel? I would think the metal would block enough of the mag pull to cycle the switch... but, I may be wrong...
If instead of mounting magnets on the wheel, you just drill holes in it and mount a single fixed magnet behind the wheel? I would think the metal would block enough of the mag pull to cycle the switch... but, I may be wrong...
That thought has been mentioned but I don't know if anyone has tried it yet.
Also, I think that linuxman didn't have success with his design until he alternated the poles of the magnets? Not sure if that would affect the solid magnet caper or not?
add to the drawing
I envisioned a collar about 1/2 or 3/4 inch in diameter (as required to fit), with a setscrew in the side.
Then, three or four tapped holes in one end would take small screws passing through the disc.
Did you find a source of magnets that would fit your 24X 1/4 inch holes?
Might want to document that.
When Linuxman went down this road, I thought he had some troubles finding suitable (and inexpensive) magnets.
Should be an easy disc to drill.
I have a punch, but not sure it'd work unless you used a soft (non-shattering) plastic... maybe Lexan??
For bonding the magnets to their holes in the plastic disc, let me suggest: Elmer's Polyurethane Ultimate Glue.
Unless we have a material's expert with a better suggestion, I'd try this stuff.
It'll bond most anything, and won't shatter like those crap cyanoacrylate super glues.
Yes, it's expensive.
edit: Ya need to locate inexpensive reed switches.
I don't think spending $10 on one is the best idea, when the actual item is a 50¢ value.
. . . and as a last thought, let me throw this out.
If it took a new cover to deal with a larger magnet wheel, but that larger wheel could easily handle 32 or more magnets, I might prefer it.
What are the down sides to this larger wheel idea?
How big can it be before it hits the deck place which the worm gear casting bracket mounts on?
Could a slot be cut in that plate, and an external cover put over it?
How did you intend to attach the disc to the shaft with the worm ?
I envisioned a collar about 1/2 or 3/4 inch in diameter (as required to fit), with a setscrew in the side.
Then, three or four tapped holes in one end would take small screws passing through the disc.
Did you find a source of magnets that would fit your 24X 1/4 inch holes?
Might want to document that.
When Linuxman went down this road, I thought he had some troubles finding suitable (and inexpensive) magnets.
Should be an easy disc to drill.
I have a punch, but not sure it'd work unless you used a soft (non-shattering) plastic... maybe Lexan??
For bonding the magnets to their holes in the plastic disc, let me suggest: Elmer's Polyurethane Ultimate Glue.
Unless we have a material's expert with a better suggestion, I'd try this stuff.
It'll bond most anything, and won't shatter like those crap cyanoacrylate super glues.
Yes, it's expensive.
edit: Ya need to locate inexpensive reed switches.
I don't think spending $10 on one is the best idea, when the actual item is a 50¢ value.
. . . and as a last thought, let me throw this out.
If it took a new cover to deal with a larger magnet wheel, but that larger wheel could easily handle 32 or more magnets, I might prefer it.
What are the down sides to this larger wheel idea?
How big can it be before it hits the deck place which the worm gear casting bracket mounts on?
Could a slot be cut in that plate, and an external cover put over it?
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I hadn't thought about the disc attachment yet, good point. I like your idea, once we had a collar size I could add some punch locations on the template.
I've found a source on 'Bay (Applied Magnets), Linuxman found his at Michael's (art/hobby store), they were fairly inexpensive. Not sure if these are acceptable, here's a link:
1/4 in x 1/8 in Thick, Grade N45, Rare Earth Neodymium Disc Magnets - Applied Magnets
I liked Lone Cloud's idea of using a PVC end cap, that stuff is super tough and drills well.
Sounds good, I'll try it.
edit: Ya need to locate inexpensive reed switches.
I don't think spending $10 on one is the best idea, when the actual item is a 50¢ value.
. . . and as a last thought, let me throw this out.
If it took a new cover to deal with a larger magnet wheel, but that larger wheel could easily handle 32 or more magnets, I might prefer it.
What are the down sides to this larger wheel idea?
I'm open for reed switch suggestions, and 32 magnets sounds good too, I can whip up a template for that also.
Concerning the 32 (or more) magnet idea, is there a maximum count number limitation in the V-box/G-box controllers, so that once you got past a certain number of counts any additional "accuracy" would be wasted??
I'm totally ignorant of their parameters, never had one or set one up.
I'm totally ignorant of their parameters, never had one or set one up.
You could cut a slot in the plastic cover. The 3-1/4" wheel only has a 1/4" clearance or so.
The problem with anything much bigger is the clearance on the other side where the worm gear shaft mounts. The steel plate that holds everything in place. Lone Cloud might be at the max with his 4" wheel at that point. Don't know if that is enough spacing for 32 magnets or not.
Phlatwound can plot it out at 4 inches.
The problem with anything much bigger is the clearance on the other side where the worm gear shaft mounts. The steel plate that holds everything in place. Lone Cloud might be at the max with his 4" wheel at that point. Don't know if that is enough spacing for 32 magnets or not.
Phlatwound can plot it out at 4 inches.
Concerning the 32 (or more) magnet idea, is there a maximum count number limitation in the V-box/G-box controllers, so that once you got past a certain number of counts any additional "accuracy" would be wasted??
I'm totally ignorant of their parameters, never had one or set one up.
I don't think there is a worry about the maximum on the GBox as far as counts because it counts differently than the VBox's do.
phlatwound's drilling template looks like a big time saver to me. I did caliper and compass and punch. It took me a whole weekend.
I did need to expand the box the motor sits in to accomodate the 4" magnet wheel. I did a few things to do that - I carefully cut some 1" outside diameter white pvc. I mitered the ends. I got longer 1/4 inch bolts. I drilled holes through the sides of the pvc to match the box mounting holes. Then bolted it up. I did paint the pvc black. You can't tell its modified looking at it.
Then there is a plastic round thing that basically seals the hole where the rectangular steel polar mount goes through the box. I flipped that upside down. Fit fine.
As far as the 4" pvc endcap is concerned, I liked that better than other options. First of all, it had a center casting mark on it which worked well as a pilot hole for the 1/2 inch hole to go over the shaft. Secondly it was as thick as the 24 magnets I got from Michael's. I did use the collars recommended by linuxman, but I did have to remove some material around the center hole - about half the thickness of the plastic - so the collars would fit between the motor and that end casting.
After drilling the magnet holes, I placed the wheel face down on a piece of steel I had. I made sure the magnet polarities were alternated. I put the magnets into the holes. Then I dropped some crazy glue into each hole to secure the magnets.
The reed sensor I got from Radio Shack had to be placed pretty close, but not touching the wheel. I did that with a nylon spacer, "countersink" screw and 3 nuts. The reed sensor is a little cylinder thing about 5/16 diameter. I got a 1" long nylon spacer from Lowe's. drilled a 5/16 hole through it ( the hole in it was 1/4 "). . I cut it lengthwise a little off center so the reed switch would kind of snap in. I drilled through the center of the spacer for the nylon screw. After I drilled and tapered the screw hole, I put the screw through there and tightened it in with a nylon nut on the other side. I did have to grind off some of the nylon screw head so the sensor could still snap in.
You can find a place to mount the screw/reed sensor holder. I used the bolt going through the shaft mount with a little piece of bent aluminum going out sideways toward the magnet wheel. A hole in there the size of the nylon screw with a nylon nut on each side of it. With that I was able to adjust that sensor every which way for best performance. I could go closer or further away from the magnet wheel, adjusting with the nylon nuts. I could turn the entire screw to put the sensor at a different angle to the magnet wheel. I could twirl the reed sensor in the cut off nylon spacer. After the experimentation, I crazy glued the reed sensor in place, and tightened the nylon nuts at the angle that worked best.
I'll look for pictures. I might have some.
I did need to expand the box the motor sits in to accomodate the 4" magnet wheel. I did a few things to do that - I carefully cut some 1" outside diameter white pvc. I mitered the ends. I got longer 1/4 inch bolts. I drilled holes through the sides of the pvc to match the box mounting holes. Then bolted it up. I did paint the pvc black. You can't tell its modified looking at it.
Then there is a plastic round thing that basically seals the hole where the rectangular steel polar mount goes through the box. I flipped that upside down. Fit fine.
As far as the 4" pvc endcap is concerned, I liked that better than other options. First of all, it had a center casting mark on it which worked well as a pilot hole for the 1/2 inch hole to go over the shaft. Secondly it was as thick as the 24 magnets I got from Michael's. I did use the collars recommended by linuxman, but I did have to remove some material around the center hole - about half the thickness of the plastic - so the collars would fit between the motor and that end casting.
After drilling the magnet holes, I placed the wheel face down on a piece of steel I had. I made sure the magnet polarities were alternated. I put the magnets into the holes. Then I dropped some crazy glue into each hole to secure the magnets.
The reed sensor I got from Radio Shack had to be placed pretty close, but not touching the wheel. I did that with a nylon spacer, "countersink" screw and 3 nuts. The reed sensor is a little cylinder thing about 5/16 diameter. I got a 1" long nylon spacer from Lowe's. drilled a 5/16 hole through it ( the hole in it was 1/4 "). . I cut it lengthwise a little off center so the reed switch would kind of snap in. I drilled through the center of the spacer for the nylon screw. After I drilled and tapered the screw hole, I put the screw through there and tightened it in with a nylon nut on the other side. I did have to grind off some of the nylon screw head so the sensor could still snap in.
You can find a place to mount the screw/reed sensor holder. I used the bolt going through the shaft mount with a little piece of bent aluminum going out sideways toward the magnet wheel. A hole in there the size of the nylon screw with a nylon nut on each side of it. With that I was able to adjust that sensor every which way for best performance. I could go closer or further away from the magnet wheel, adjusting with the nylon nuts. I could turn the entire screw to put the sensor at a different angle to the magnet wheel. I could twirl the reed sensor in the cut off nylon spacer. After the experimentation, I crazy glued the reed sensor in place, and tightened the nylon nuts at the angle that worked best.
I'll look for pictures. I might have some.
You could cut a slot in the plastic cover. The 3-1/4" wheel only has a 1/4" clearance or so.
The problem with anything much bigger is the clearance on the other side where the worm gear shaft mounts. The steel plate that holds everything in place. Lone Cloud might be at the max with his 4" wheel at that point. Don't know if that is enough spacing for 32 magnets or not.
Phlatwound can plot it out at 4 inches.
It looks like you could easily go 4 1/2" without hitting anything on mine, 5" would be pushing it though.
Is there anything "magic" about the number of magnets? Is a multiple of 8 preferred for any reason?
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I just followed what linuxman did with a few of my own modifications. I went with 24 because linuxman said that would work with a G-box and would have the finer adjustments necessary to zero the satellites pretty well.
All I can say is, 24 magnets works. My gut feeling is you could do with some less. I don't think you get any advantage from more than 24. But 24 does work.
All I can say is, 24 magnets works. My gut feeling is you could do with some less. I don't think you get any advantage from more than 24. But 24 does work.
It looks like you could easily go 4 1/2" without hitting anything on mine, 5" would be pushing it though.
Is there anything "magic" about the number of magnets? Is a multiple of 8 preferred for any reason?
No magic about the multiples of 8 as far as I know.
The more magnets, the more pulses read by the GBox, and therefore the more accuracy for starting and stopping.
24 magnets means 24 places to stop for each revolution of the worm gear. 30 magnets means 30 places to stop, and if you have everything spaced evenly with enough space between magnets and the sensor, the GBox can read off both sides of the magnets doubling that count.
It looks like you could easily go 4 1/2" without hitting anything on mine, 5" would be pushing it though.
Is there anything "magic" about the number of magnets? Is a multiple of 8 preferred for any reason?
You guys are way more into this than me, but in my experience, the number of magnets needs to be cooperative with the type of motor being used. For example, I tried using the 24 magnet wheel with the orignal (and faster) 37:1 motors....and wow, the dish numbers raced faster than you could blink. Just way too many pulses for the receiver to accurately count.
A few years back, I replaced our original motor with a replacement that Skyvision was selling, a slower 70:1 motor. The catalog even stated that it MUST be used with the 24 magnet wheel. Together, they work and count perfectly. We rarely have to "bump" the dish to get it locked on a bird.
Basically, if you have the original Birdview motor, use an 8 magnet wheel. If you have the replacement 70:1 motor, use the 24 magnet wheel.
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All of my Birdview motors are the 37:1 gear ratio motors, and they all work fine with 24 magnets, and there are no counts lost in the GBox. I never have to bump or fine tune the dish by bumping East or West.
Yes the instructions said only to use on the 70:1 gear ratio motors, but 24 magnets work fine with the faster gear ratios. I was told that by others here on this forum when I bought my first one from Skyvision, and have proven it with use for over a year on my Perfed Birdview.
Phlatwound got the only 70:1 gear ratio motor I have ever seen when he bought the one he now has from me.
Well, I didn't get mine done today, couldn't find enough magnets (got 'em on order). I did cut the disks with a 3 1/2" holesaw, worked good. Did some experimenting with the magnets and reed sensor. Using an analog Ohmmeter, the switch seemed to stay closed when I ran the reed across several magnets lined up and spaced like the specs say. I'm not seeing the pulses. I have 8mmx3mm neodymium magnets. 24 will just fit on the disk. I am thinking I am doing something wrong. Maybe I need a less sensitive reed switch.
I'm starting to think the 10K pot may work, can't miss a pulse and might be fun make a controller with a PIC circut and the computer. I figured it to be 50 Ohms per degree. Could even move the dish with a switch and an Ohmmeter.
I'm starting to think the 10K pot may work, can't miss a pulse and might be fun make a controller with a PIC circut and the computer. I figured it to be 50 Ohms per degree. Could even move the dish with a switch and an Ohmmeter.
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