Best way to Feed 3 Dual Tuner Receivers

[Swoop]

So we are done with our new house and just finished installing a new 52 Sony LCD flat screen and a Visio 32 LCD flat screen. I setup my receivers, 2 722's and a 625. Hooked up the DPP Separators and ran all the appropriate cables to the DPP44 Switch. However I have come to find out that for some reason the DPP44 Switch power inserter is causing interferece issues with the left and right audio on the two LCD flat screens. Even with the satellite receiver uplugged from the wall, the second I connect the Coax from the switch to the receiver, if the audio is hooked to one of the LCD's and the LCD's are on a loud humming sound comes out of the LCD speakers. This happens on both LCD tv's with any of the 3 receivers and with and without the DPP separators. After much trial and error and cable switching I decided as my last resort to run single runs of cable from my DP Twin LNBF to one of my receivers, thus bypassing the DPP44 Switch and the power inserter. Guess what, no more humming sound coming from either LCD TV.

What I want to know at this point is if anyone has any clue why the LCD's seem to be subseptible to interference from the Power Inserter, but yet my Sony SXRD Rear Projection and an old fashioned Tube style TV were not experiencing this humming sound when the DPP44 Switch was in use. Since it's clearly an issue with the switch/power inserter what would be the best way to feed 3 dual tuner receivers without using the SW44 switch. Keep in mind that I have a second dish pointed at 61.5 so I would need to incorporate that as well. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Oh one more thing, I'm still at a stage where I can pull more runs of Coax into the house, so if there is a solution that doesn't even need the DPP separators then thats cool too, It won't be a problem for me to pull 3 more runs of Coax. Based on my little bit of research I did a little bit ago, it seems like 2 DP34 Switches with 6 coax runs would work and not require any kind of power inserter. But I'm still curious if anyone has any clues as to why Im getting the audio interference on the LCD's when using the Power Inserter.

 

[webbydude]

Why not just use a D1000.2? It will not only feed 3 dual tuners...AND...it will allow for the use of 4 orbitals (2nd D500 and some assembly required )

 

[Swoop]

D1000.2 will not work in my neck of the woods. Already tried it a few months ago.

 

[RandallA]

Then you need to put as many dishes as needed (different locations) and combine them with a DPP44 switch.

After reading the post, sounds to me that you have some ground problem in your home. Try powering the DPP44 switch without the power inserter, just connect a receiver to port 1. Not ideal but for testing it should be OK to power the DPP44 switch from the receiver just to see if the power inserter is the problem

 

[rcdallas]

Try relocating the power inserter itself somewhere else, I'm assuming it's directly behind a reciever and not at the switch itself.

Maybe a grounding problem?

 

[wmi]

Try removing the power inverter.

There has been some discussion for the last several months at our DNS office that in systems with multiple DVRs (such as yours since you have 3 DVRs) that the power inverter seems to cause a problem when plugged-in. Don't know if it is too much power when combined with multiple DVRs going back out to the DPP 44 switch or what. But is seems for the most part in those situations the system functions properly if we leave the inverter out of the equation.

 

[rcdallas]

Try removing the power inverter.

There has been some discussion for the last several months at our DNS office that in systems with multiple DVRs (such as yours since you have 3 DVRs) that the power inverter seems to cause a problem when plugged-in. Don't know if it is too much power when combined with multiple DVRs going back out to the DPP 44 switch or what. But is seems for the most part in those situations the system functions properly if we leave the inverter out of the equation.

So wouldn't putting the power inserter by itself on port 1 and the 3 dvrs on ports 2,3,4 do the same?

 

[charlesrshell]

Try removing the power inverter.

There has been some discussion for the last several months at our DNS office that in systems with multiple DVRs (such as yours since you have 3 DVRs) that the power inverter seems to cause a problem when plugged-in. Don't know if it is too much power when combined with multiple DVRs going back out to the DPP 44 switch or what. But is seems for the most part in those situations the system functions properly if we leave the inverter out of the equation.

Good question. I have four dual DVRs connected to a DPP44 switch. The DVR that I have the power inserter attached too on port one acts up occasionally. The other three DVRs haven't skipped a beat. What do you installers think? Could there be too much power going to the DPP44 switch?

 

[webbydude]

I wouldn't say that it's a case of too much power, but more like a flakey inverter. Not that I would recommend it, but it has been documented enough times that a DP+ dual tuner has enough juice to power up a DPP44 by itself without the aid of an inverter.

 

[charlesrshell]

I wouldn't say that it's a case of too much power, but more like a flakey inverter. Not that I would recommend it, but it has been documented enough times that a DP+ dual tuner has enough juice to power up a DPP44 by itself without the aid of an inverter.

Well, my one 722 is acting better now since the temp has come down some. If it starts to act up again I will try swapping out the surge protector. If that doesn't do it I will take the power inserter out and try that out. Might just be a bad 722.

 

[Swoop]

Definitly not a ground problem with my new house, I can assure you of that, everything is properly grounded with 2 ground rods 6 feet in the ground. The DPP44 switch is outside in a weather proof box mounted on the post that the dishes are mounted on. Anyway what I ended up doing is picking up a DPPTwin LNB and Dish and setting it up with my 61.5 to feed my 2 722 receivers. I'm not getting any humming through the audio either, so it was definetly something with the switch/power inserter. For the time being I'm gonna feed the 625 off of the DPP44 switch since it's hooked to a traditional tube type TV and it's not making the TV hum. At some point I may pick up a new switch.

 

[charlesrshell]

Definitely not a ground problem with my new house, I can assure you of that, everything is properly grounded with 2 ground rods 6 feet in the ground. The DPP44 switch is outside in a weather proof box mounted on the post that the dishes are mounted on. Anyway what I ended up doing is picking up a DPPTwin LNB and Dish and setting it up with my 61.5 to feed my 2 722 receivers. I'm not getting any humming through the audio either, so it was definitely something with the switch/power inserter. For the time being I'm gonna feed the 625 off of the DPP44 switch since it's hooked to a traditional tube type TV and it's not making the TV hum. At some point I may pick up a new switch.

Are both rods bonded together? Shouldn't they be eight foot rods according to the NEC or does your local code say six foot is ok?

 

[Swoop]

Are both rods bonded together? Shouldn't they be eight foot rods according to the NEC or does your local code say six foot is ok?

Your correct, they are 8 foot rods, 6 feet apart, bonded by a single run of copper that goes to the Meter can. From the meter can only the 2 hot legs and the neutral go into the house as the codes here (not sure if it's a National code) don't require a ground wire from the meter can to the point of first disconnect, which in my case is the main panel inside the house. I will admit that the switch itself is not really grounded since the housing it is in is mounted to a wooden post and no ground wire running from the DPP44 to the house ground. I'm thinking I probably should drive a ground rod out by the DPP44 and ground it that way, maybe that would solve the hum interference, but other than it being the proper way to do it, it's pointless now since the DPPTwin dish feeds the 722's which feed the 2 LCD tv's with no hum. But (And Im sure you guys will let me have it) it's in my best interest to finally get around to grounding my dishes properly after 10 years without doing it, lol.

 

[vegassatellite]

Sounds like a ground loop. You're probably hearing the 60hz noise produced by the electrical system. That usually means you have a small current flow on your ground paths. Try using a voltmeter between your switch chassis and your house ground rods and see if there is any current flowing between the two. If there is, you should find out where the difference in ground potential is coming from and fix it if possible. In any case, you should have your satellite system properly grounded.

If your satellite system isn't grounded, then its possible that whatever piece of equipment is faulty is finding a better path to ground via the switch and through the power inserter to the ground plug of that electrical outlet. You might have an electrical outlet that one of your other TVs and receiver is connected to that doesn't have a good ground. That could be from the trimout of that outlet if the electrician didn't get the ground on real good. This would mean that any stray voltage would find its path to ground via the satellite cabling and the power inserter. By moving the common connection between the satellite wires to the dish, you may have increased the resistance enough to prevent the flow of stray currents and thus killed the noise.

BTW, when you had the switch installed, the power inserter was basically the ground for your entire satellite system.

 

[charlesrshell]

Your correct, they are 8 foot rods, 6 feet apart, bonded by a single run of copper that goes to the Meter can. From the meter can only the 2 hot legs and the neutral go into the house as the codes here (not sure if it's a National code) don't require a ground wire from the meter can to the point of first disconnect, which in my case is the main panel inside the house. I will admit that the switch itself is not really grounded since the housing it is in is mounted to a wooden post and no ground wire running from the DPP44 to the house ground. I'm thinking I probably should drive a ground rod out by the DPP44 and ground it that way, maybe that would solve the hum interference, but other than it being the proper way to do it, it's pointless now since the DPPTwin dish feeds the 722's which feed the 2 LCD tv's with no hum. But (And I'm sure you guys will let me have it) it's in my best interest to finally get around to grounding my dishes properly after 10 years without doing it, lol.

Wouldn't your DPP44 switch already be grounded through the coax connected to your switch?

 

[charlesrshell]

Sounds like a ground loop. You're probably hearing the 60hz noise produced by the electrical system. That usually means you have a small current flow on your ground paths. Try using a voltmeter between your switch chassis and your house ground rods and see if there is any current flowing between the two. If there is, you should find out where the difference in ground potential is coming from and fix it if possible. In any case, you should have your satellite system properly grounded.

If your satellite system isn't grounded, then its possible that whatever piece of equipment is faulty is finding a better path to ground via the switch and through the power inserter to the ground plug of that electrical outlet. You might have an electrical outlet that one of your other TVs and receiver is connected to that doesn't have a good ground. That could be from the trim out of that outlet if the electrician didn't get the ground on real good. This would mean that any stray voltage would find its path to ground via the satellite cabling and the power inserter. By moving the common connection between the satellite wires to the dish, you may have increased the resistance enough to prevent the flow of stray currents and thus killed the noise.

BTW, when you had the switch installed, the power inserter was basically the ground for your entire satellite system.

vegassatellite, I do not know too much about how to perform electrical test. On the voltmeter would you use the continuity test to see if there is a small current flow between the switch housing and house ground rods? Can you give us amateurs some little detail procedures how to perform this test? Thanks for being helpful.

 

[vegassatellite]

vegassatellite, I do not know too much about how to perform electrical test. On the voltmeter would you use the continuity test to see if there is a small current flow between the switch housing and house ground rods? Can you give us amateurs some little detail procedures how to perform this test? Thanks for being helpful.

A continuity test would tell you that there is a continuous path from out of the voltmeter, through a conductor or series of conductors and then back into the voltmeter. Can't do this on a grounded conductor because the path of least resistance should be to the ground and not back through the conductors in the home and back to the VM.

I would start by putting a lead from the VM on the shield of the coax that is intended for the power inserter port 1 while its plugged in to power and putting the other lead on the switch chassis with the rest of the coax cables plugged in. While the port 1 coax is disconnected from the switch, check for any current flowing across the VM from the switch to the cable shield of the power inserter coax.

If you find current flow there, then reconnect switch as normal and remove one of the wires on the other outports and check if current is flowing from the shield to the switch. If you find a coax line that has voltage on the shield, start checking for current flow further up the line towards the satellite receiver.

It doesn't have to be much current, probably less than enough to spark but it can cause audio problems.

Ground your satellite system and backbond it to the house main. That should keep the unwanted current flowing back through the power inserter and finding a path to ground through your house wiring and your audio equipment. Still, I would find the leaky device that is putting current on your ground. Might be that old tube tv if it is only a two-prong cord.

 

[charlesrshell]

A continuity test would tell you that there is a continuous path from out of the voltmeter, through a conductor or series of conductors and then back into the voltmeter. Can't do this on a grounded conductor because the path of least resistance should be to the ground and not back through the conductors in the home and back to the VM.

I would start by putting a lead from the VM on the shield of the coax that is intended for the power inserter port 1 while its plugged in to power and putting the other lead on the switch chassis with the rest of the coax cables plugged in. While the port 1 coax is disconnected from the switch, check for any current flowing across the VM from the switch to the cable shield of the power inserter coax.

If you find current flow there, then reconnect switch as normal and remove one of the wires on the other outports and check if current is flowing from the shield to the switch. If you find a coax line that has voltage on the shield, start checking for current flow further up the line towards the satellite receiver.

It doesn't have to be much current, probably less than enough to spark but it can cause audio problems.

Ground your satellite system and backbond it to the house main. That should keep the unwanted current flowing back through the power inserter and finding a path to ground through your house wiring and your audio equipment. Still, I would find the leaky device that is putting current on your ground. Might be that old tube tv if it is only a two-prong cord.

OK, got it. Thanks for the info.