Bait and Switch

[tulsa agent]

so what feature are u missing that you wanted with the 222k?

yeah the 222k has the new learning remotes, but it does not come with OTA. you have to buy a module then you can get OTA on both tv1 and tv2.

however, the 222 comes with an OTA for tuner1 already built in at no cost.

they both have their ups and downs here. and just so you know, had you gotten a 222k, it may have also very well been refurbed. just because it is refurbed also does not make it an automatic previous defect. when people cancel service or upgrade, their old receivers get sent back and redeployed. they go through the testing before they leave and get a refurb stamp even if all they had to do was clean off the casing.

 

[sethwell]

A friend of mine recently upgraded to a Dish HD package to take adavantage of his HD TV. As a loyal customer he was unable to take advantage of any of the offers being laid out for new customers so he had to fork out $100 for a HD receiver.

After reviewing the choices available for HD packages on Dish's website, he opted for a VIP222k reciever. He was at work while the installation was being done (wife was at home) so it wasn't until the installer left that he realized that they didn't give him a VIP222k but rather a refurbished VIP222.

It should be noted that the dish website no longer shows the older VIP222 as a hardware choice for HD programming. While the two receivers share the same core features, there are some new features in the 222k that he was interested in such as the learning remotes and the ability to watch OTA on TV2.

He called a Dish CSR (and also spoke with his manager and tried the online chat) and didn't get anywhere. They claimed that they make no guarantees about what type of equipment they will use for the installation. I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as what they do send you meets your requirements in terms of the number of TVs and it was one of the advertised choices listed on their site. But to send out an older, refurbished model that has fewer features amounts to a bait and switch tactic.

What would you do? He is considering filing a complaint with the state AG.

not sure why you are blaming dish here. he knew what he wanted to get from dish and should have left instructions with the wife about what was suppose to be installed. if the wrong piece of equipment was brought, she should have told the installer that that was not what they wanted and to cancel the install or install the correct piece of equipment.

just like the person said earlier, if i had received my new chevy truck that was suppose to have the Z71 package but the truck delivered did not have it, i would have said no, that is not what i ordered and had them send it back and get me what i ordered.

i'm not defending dish here, but this would fall on the customer. they didn't have to let him install the equipment and sign the multiple pages of paperwork the installer gave them. just my two cents.

 

[tulsa agent]

there is a line on the w/o that states along the lines of "i confirm that the equipment installed is working and to my satisfaction".

 

[pabeader]

not sure why you are blaming dish here. he knew what he wanted to get from dish and should have left instructions with the wife about what was suppose to be installed. if the wrong piece of equipment was brought, she should have told the installer that that was not what they wanted and to cancel the install or install the correct piece of equipment.

just like the person said earlier, if i had received my new chevy truck that was suppose to have the Z71 package but the truck delivered did not have it, i would have said no, that is not what i ordered and had them send it back and get me what i ordered.

i'm not defending dish here, but this would fall on the customer. they didn't have to let him install the equipment and sign the multiple pages of paperwork the installer gave them. just my two cents.

The difference is subtle, but there. If you went to the dealer and ordered a truck. But had know way to specify the type of truck or the particular features that YOU wanted. That would be more like the Dish way of ordering receivers. The reason they do it that way is to avoid this kind of trouble. Their response can be "we never said you were going to get a White one with four new tires and the fancy trim package" You ordered a truck and you got a truck. Heck, we never even said it would start, now did we?

 

[Bobby]

there is a line on the w/o that states along the lines of "i confirm that the equipment installed is working and to my satisfaction".

Well, sort of.... The exact wording is as follows:

I acknowledge receipt of and agree that I have read, understand and agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the Residential Customer Agreement and also the Service Agreement Terms set forth on the reverse of this page.
Customer Initials____

I confirm the work listed above has been completed in a satisfactory manner on the date shown below, and I agree to and understand the terms and conditions associated with the boxes checked above, that the equipment is in good working order and that I am receiving the programming I requested.
Customer Signature____

----------------------------------------------------------------

So, Part 2 fits what you are saying. "the work listed above" includes a description of services and what receivers were installed. If you signed that you were satisfied with a receiver that you didn't order, that probably isn't Dish's fault.

 

[IrishBrewer]

I don't know if the Chevy truck with a Z71 package is a very good anlaogy because say you paid for a truck with the Z71 package and for some reason you did not realize that it did not have it upon delivery but did notice once you had it back home, I'm sure you could still go back to the dealer and get it rectified. If you would just roll over in such a situation then well, I don't know what to say.

Without hindsight, it would have been hard for my friend to predict that the installer would come with a 222 rather than a 222k and warn his wife in advance about this possibility. Keep in mind that Dish isn't even listing the 222 on their website. I'm sure that the installer gave his wife the basic runthrough and everything appeared to be working so she signed off on it. I can't blame her one bit for that.

It is clear that in the past 6 or so months, Dish is taking a less and less customer friendly stance with their existing customers. If they continue to do so and no one does anything about it, this behavior will continue and probably get even worse.

For those who say the 222 is pretty much the same as the 222k, could you tell me how to go about getting OTA on TV2? At least it is possible with the 222k.

Also, I know the remotes can be found for under $20 from various vendors but this still doesn't help with the other missing features on the 222k.

I have suggested that my friend contact the installer to see if he can do anything for him. We'll see where he gets with that approach.

 

[dak32]

Service call

Call up dish and tell them you are having problems with the new receiver and get a service call set up. He still has a 60 day warranty service. Odds are that He gest a 222k replacement since most offices don't carry the non-k version. He would still have to buy the ota adapter which can sometimes be hard to find. It is not bait and switch since he did get a vip dual tuner hd receiver and his wife signed the paperwork.

 

[Jim5506]

I ordered the OTA adapter when I ordered my 722k, might have helped the situation.

This was about a year ago and things have changed at Dish since then, however.

 

[PMKS]

A friend of mine recently upgraded to a Dish HD package to take adavantage of his HD TV. As a loyal customer he was unable to take advantage of any of the offers being laid out for new customers so he had to fork out $100 for a HD receiver.

On a slightly different subject:

A bunch of my co-workers with dish tried to get reduced cost/free upgrades to HD, they were told no-way, several had been dish subs for 5-10 years as satellite is the only TV option around here.....

Several have since moved to DirecTV, Dish and DirecTV to a lesser extent need to learn how to retain customers better......

 

[Tyralak]

It may suck, but this is how the business rules are set up. The work orders we get for installations say 622/722/722k or 222/222k or 522/625 on them in the equipment list. They are considered the same "class" of receiver, so according to the business rules, they're interchangeable. Even for replacements. Yeah, your 722k goes bad and all we have are 622s they expect us to replace it with a 622. However, at that point if I can't get a 722k I have one shipped to the customer. I'm not going to do that to somebody.

 

[Bob Haller]

No matter what the legalties............

All providers risk churn and a bad reputation by poor service, wether or not it meets legalese contracts.......

apparently customer satisfaction is no longer a business goal

 

[MikeD-C05]

According to Charlie, DISH has the #1 satisfaction rating in the country among cable and satellite providers.

 

[Tyralak]

Dammit. Who rang your bell, Bob?

 

[Bob Haller]

its not just sat, in general the entire country has declining service......

 

[harshness]

Thanks for your replies and I apologize if I'm being dense but I don't see anything in the agreement that would permit them to advertise one model and provide you with another. Perhaps I missed something.

Perhaps we should start with where you think your friend was wronged from a functional perspective.

As tulsa agent asks, what exclusive feature of the ViP222K is your friend missing?

You mention two OTA channels, but is your friend really missing that feature? Do they even have an OTA module?

 

[cditty]

I disagree with the thought that this is a bait and switch. Nowhere does it ever specify the model number of the receiver you will get. You paid for an HD upgrade and got that.

Secondly, if it's that important, someone who knew something about it should have been there for the install.

 

[IrishBrewer]

Perhaps we should start with where you think your friend was wronged from a functional perspective.

As tulsa agent asks, what exclusive feature of the ViP222K is your friend missing?

You mention two OTA channels, but is your friend really missing that feature? Do they even have an OTA module?

There were two items that he mentioned.

1. Learning remotes - he has at least one remote that there are no built in codes for and he wants the learning remotes so he can use just a single remote rather than two or more. He is aware that these can be purchased separately but doesn't feel like he should be footing the bill.

2. OTA channels on TV2. As far as I know you cannot purchase the OTA module for the 222, only the 222k.

As I have mentioned previously, none of this would have ever come up if Dish continued to advertise all of their HD receivers currently being installed but they only show the "k" models. If that were not the case, I would agree 100% that he has no right to complain.

 

[whatchel1]

What he ordered

No matter what the legalties............

All providers risk churn and a bad reputation by poor service, wether or not it meets legalese contracts.......

apparently customer satisfaction is no longer a business goal

The customer here may not be unhappy at all. It may be that the OP is unhappy but his friend may be fine w/ what he is using. The guy got a dual receiver which is what was ordered. Now the remote for it is different but does it change the channels etc. You are stuck in churn mode of mind. Just because you churned doesn't mean that the new guy is going to. This is also not bad service the guy now gets satellite which is what he ordered.

 

[harshness]

As I have mentioned previously, none of this would have ever come up if Dish continued to advertise all of their HD receivers currently being installed but they only show the "k" models.

How about that rental car that doens't come with Satellite radio even though the car you reserved was supposed to have SARS, tilt wheel and not be a some sort of SUV (I was recently offered a PT Cruiser or an HHR in lieu of a Pontiac G6)?

Due diligence dictates that the consumer do a modicum of research into what is in the supply chain and that if they come out on the losing end of chance that they not be too bitter about crapping out.

 

[tulsa agent]

well, think of it this way. your friend got OTA on tv1 for free. at no charge. the 222k would not have given him OTA on tv1 without having to buy a module. did he actually have the intention of buying the module?

as for the learning remote, have him politely call up dish network and ask them nicely, (throw in a please and a thank you, goes a long way) if they will RA him a 21.0 remote. i have done it for customers at no charge. many a time.

now if they call in demanding they aint getting nothing without paying.