Bad antenna install, need opinions please

[newsposter]

Note I want WB/UPN so waiting for the HDdvr doesn't help me right now.

local installer ($60 per hour) that I hired to put the DB8 that I previously bought on the chimney won't be back in the office until Monday so I wanted my options before then. I had it in the attic but couldn't get in fox (uhf 42) because it was 2 degrees off. I figured if I got 75-90 in the attic on the other nets, (except 54), that on the chimney would be a good compromise to get in fox because in theory the signal is stronger outside right?

Well after much fiddling, we got it to where ch 42/54/64/67 were all pretty solid 60-70. Thing is, even when he was fiddling outside, i never got 64/67 to as good a signal as I had in the attic. I guess this was more of a big deal than I thought at the time. Does it sound reasonable that because the chimney was actually 6-8 ft away from the site in my attic, that it may be the reason I never got in a good signal outside? I'm assuming the antenna is perfectly plumb but of course I have no way of telling. He did seem to take great care when he did the chimney mount.

So overnight we had a very bad thunder storm. however this morning all the channels were the same as yesterday. Then this afternoon the winds and rains kicked up and the channels were all unwatchable during the storm (going from zero up to 70 wildly). Even now that it's calmed down, i can't get back in ch 67 but the others are relatively ok. I'm assuming this means the antenna moved. I didn't think up high on a 10 ft pole was very stable but he assured me it was rock solid. Obviously this isn't true.

So i have to think of my options and it's frustrating

1. tell him the antenna moved and make them somehow shore it up. I'd assume they would have to do this free/reduced cost since it obviously moved. However the problem I have this this option is even at the time of install, i only got low 70s for a high signal when inside i was getting 80s. So this may be foolish to try and solidify an antenna in this relatively poor position.

2. maybe lower the antenna on the 10ft pole down a few feet to make it more stable? Or is this pointless given my 'weak' signals of 60-70?

3. I'm assuming you can do a tripod mount on the peak of any roof. (didn't ask him but i'd assume they can do that). I could have him stand near the spot where I had the good signals inside and try to find a good signal and I'd assume they should be the same/stronger on the roof at that point. Then we can determine how ch 42 will come in at that point. I'd assume they would do this as they are the pros and i dont see how else you could tell a good signal. Also if they can't get in all 6 networks, I may as well put the antenna back inside away from the elements.

4. try to lower the antenna for more stability and just aim for channel 42 then put another antenna back in the attic and get another antenna (though I know it's a 2 week wait for a jointenna unless I can do something like a reverse splitter? Of course then there's the cost for another antenna plus 30 for the jointenna. And now i'm really paranoid about outside mounts not being stable.

5. ask them what antenna they have for my area (I know the like wineguard) and ask him to do a test of it on the chimney mount.


I already spent 200 on friday. I dont know how much more I want to put into this. I definitely have to have him back here, even if just to take the antenna down, as I dont climb on roofs. My gut says have him use a tripod and at least try to move the antenna to a point where the signal is at least as strong as inside and get the antenna as low to the roof as possible to minimize wind problems. I guess the 6 ft to the one side made a big difference.

 

[snaggerbob]

Did he use a signal meter to find the best location?

 

[newsposter]

no, i had originally called and said i have decent signals on all but fox so i wanted it mounted on the chimney instead of in the attic. I assumed higher is better. Obviously not in my case. I guess it's a few feet horizontally that matter.

so am i in trouble because he took my word instead of trying to find a signal?

next time out here i'd be sure he walked along the length and found a better signal if i'm going to go to the trouble of a roof mount

 

[newsposter]

welp, spent a total of 400 bucks over 2 visits but think we finally got it. I had the installer walk the length of the roof, trying ever foot or so. And he even tried my higher roof but that was actually worse. Probably the neighbors house in the way or something. I'm definitely shooting thru a tunnel here between the neighbors house and some unseen object.

I hadn't thought a tree 200 ft away would be an issue and he did warn me about it when the leaves grow back, but I'm willing to take that risk because I'm pretty sure in October when i put the antenna up in the attic, there were still leaves on it. But I guess that can cause multipath right? I'm still hoping with it so far away I'm ok in spring.

Initially after he took the 10ft pole off the chimney, i had a great signal for fox ch 42 a few feet away but he said for a tripod, he would only use the 4-5 ft pole. He said he never guyed a 10ft pole and i sure wasn't going to be his first. I personally feel better about a lower mount anyway. So it's sitting on a tripod unguyed but i've had no problems the first few days so far.

After all this... we went back to the place above where i had the db8 in my attic. Then he wanted to try his winegard (looked like CM4228). The DB8 was better so we went back to it. Then I made him tweak it until ch 67 had a very high reading because I knew it had the worst multipath. I'm glad I did because just this AM I saw it dip about 15 points on the meter along with 64 the other day. ch 42, the real problem here, is now a solid 71. And ch 54 is now my 'worst' between 60-68ish but once WB moves to the UPN station and becomes CW this fall (ch 32), it wont matter. Also I've proved that the 2 degrees that ch 42 was off didnt matter, as others have told me. DB8 handled that just fine.

so now i love 24 in HD and even started watching american idol but dont tell anyone. And for some reason, in the mornings, fox actually goes from a 71 up to an 84 signal ..weird.

final readings and hopefully the end of this chapter:

26 cbs    90-92
32 upn    90-92
42 fox     solid 71 
54 wb     60-68
64  abc    83-85 some dips to 70s
67  nbc    83-85 some dips to 70s

So far, everything I've recorded on HDtivo this week is perfect. I used to duplicate recordings on my SD tivo because of the irregular signals I was getting but think soon i'll delete the dups.

 

[dragon002]

Did he use a signal meter to find the best location?

newsposter told him where to mount it. the techs liability ended there.

 

[newsposter]

yup that's why for after the chimney didn't work i wasn't mad at him. I purely thought, as most people told me..go HIGHER!

and rest assured, he put it exactly where I wanted it this time. I made him go back and forth on the roof while i went back inside to flip the channels for over 2 hours finding the best spot. (had a tv outside but no way to change the channels)

though I do wonder how much a signal meter would have helped in my particular circumstance. Are they really accurate or just provide a guideline?

 

[Kevinw]

I think a rotor would help, That way you can compensate for multipath byt catching signals of the side lobes..

 

[newsposter]

can't use a rotor with tivo

and everything is perfect now. Haven't missed a single show and am even able to get in a weak PBS most of the time. I'll gladly accept the poor signal because heck, i didn't get one in at all before. I dont watch pbs normally but already tivo'd 4 shows this week for the beautiful pictures. Plus niagara falls looks very cool.

I think I can stop duplicating the HD programs on my SD tivo now. Such a relief!

I did lose signal in dense fog monday AM (couldn't see 2 houses down). Lost pbs and fox but the rest were ok so as long as there's no dense fog in the PM when I record most OTA, i'll be ok.

 

[Kevinw]

But you can use a rotor for the times you can not get a stable picture. Dial in for the best picture and let Tivo do it's job... Be prepared though for seasonal multipath this spring when the leaves come back..

 

[newsposter]

well Id never know when i had a bad signal unless i was watching live tv so a rotor wouldn't help me at all I dont watch live TV at night...ever. Takes days to get to some programs and I wouldn't know if it was a bad signal until too late. so in order to monitor bad signals, i'd theoretically need to watch the beginning of every live show ....thankfully i need not do that now.

Fortunately pbs isnt that vital, it's more of an extra for me. I never watched it before. And since the rest come in perfectly, no reason to fumble more with perfection.

as far as the leaves, i think 200ft away shouldnt pose too much of a problem. I had the strong signals in the attic in october, when leaves were still up.

 

[Kevinw]

Got ya,
Who would have thught we would go to such extremes just for television.

 

[focusmold]

Does the DB8 work to pull in High Band VHF??
Seriously looking at this antenna

 

[newsposter]

If you find out please let me know. Actually oops, no, I need ch 6 in 2009..darnnit. Would plugging the db8 into the tv now and getting an analog signal be any indicator if i'll get in the digital.

 

[charper1]

High gain, mutli-directional, UHF band (UHF channels 14-69) ONLY

For high-gain VHF/UHF look for:

Winegard HD 8200P
Winegard HD 7084P
Antennas Direct V21