Backing up your recordings

[gms49ers]

I have one word for you, and it's not "plastics". It's "ext2fs".

I wouldn't recommend using the ext2fs driver for Windows, as windows doesn't understand or preserve Unix style permissions/ownership.

But then this is just supposition. I don't have a Windows box to try it on.

 

[mikejstb]

I just execute a cp command.

From what I know and have done, it has to be the same drive that goes back to the DVR.

I have two 500gb drives. One is hooked to the 622, the other mounted in my server. I power the drive connected to the 622 off, and unplug the drive from the cable. I then hook the DVR drive to my server and mount it to a temp directory.

I've created a directory on the server to hold the files, and called it DishNetwork. I then cp -Rp the contents from the DVR drive to the DishNetwork directory. The -p option will perserve the ownership and permission settings, which is very important.

When I did a restore, I let the 622 format/initialize the drive, then took it to the server as above. I then did a cp -Rp from the DishNetwork directory to the DVR drive. Worked like a charm.

Sounds very easy.
I think I'll try making an archive same-size backup first, then maybe try a larger drive.
I wonder if using Linux to create the same type of filesystem, then copying the files from the smaller drive would work? Probably not.

Or maybe use the Dish box to initialize the bigger disk, then copy the files from the smaller one over to it...

 

[gms49ers]

Sounds very easy.
Or maybe use the Dish box to initialize the bigger disk, then copy the files from the smaller one over to it...

This is the approach I'd take.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Or maybe use the Dish box to initialize the bigger disk, then copy the files from the smaller one over to it...

Yes, you should do that, since if the receiver doesn't like how the disk is partitioned it will want to recreate the partitions.

I copied all of my recordings from a 500GB drive to a 640GB drive this way. All I used was "cp -rp", with both drives connected to a laptop running a Linux Live CD (OpenSuSE in my case).

 

[KKlare]

If you have the disk space and the time and they show the program multiple times, you can record it twice... and save each copy separately. Note that Dish will try to help and not record duplicates but you can override it--just check after the reboot and before the second recording. After the "nightly" reboot, I find the time I trimmed off the the recording is set back to the full record time and the show may be eliminated as a duplicate.
-Ken

 

[bebop]

Too bad there is not a copy feature on the DVR to send a copy to the EHD. That would be simple to do, I think. That way you could choose the individual recordings instead of the whole disk to copy.

Anyone know if this is in the works? Maybe I'll send an email to ceo @ dish and see what they say.

 

[TheKrell]

Too bad there is not a copy feature on the DVR to send a copy to the EHD. That would be simple to do, I think. That way you could choose the individual recordings instead of the whole disk to copy.

Agreed, but then DRM rears it's ugly head. As I understand it, perfect digital copies are not allowed; we can only move the program from one device to another. The current single-copy rule is deliberately designed into the firmware to satisfy, or at least mollify, copyright holders. I am no lawyer, but I am guessing there is a law somewhere that specifically allows moving content, rather than making a perfect copy.

Astute individuals can get around this missing feature with a Linux cp or dd or installing Windows ext2fs. You can also get around this for most program content by disassembling your DVR, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

And before anybody asks, I do not know how Nextcom gets away with it's R5000 mod. Probably their numbers are so small, no content provider bothers to sue them. I also do not know how much longer we will be able to do a high-def A-to-D on the component outputs of our receivers. I wish it were forever, but the way DRM law has gone, particularly after the DMCA was passed, we seem to be going in the wrong direction (to my way of thinking).

 

[JimK2]

Too bad there is not a copy feature on the DVR to send a copy to the EHD. That would be simple to do, I think. That way you could choose the individual recordings instead of the whole disk to copy.

Anyone know if this is in the works? Maybe I'll send an email to ceo @ dish and see what they say.

The program/content owners won't allow it.

 

[bebop]

So it's illegal for me to make a backup of my recordings then? Even though I can't watch them on anything else other than my own sat receivers? Maybe this should be said upfront on the thread, as I'm not trying to do anything illegal - just save my recordings because I've already had one hard drive go out. It would be nice if there was a RAID array I could setup to automatically do it.

 

[mikejstb]

This is the approach I'd take.

Woo-Hoo! Success!

I took my 500G drive, with about 400G of programs, off the Dish box.
Then plugged in a 1TB drive (with better cooling!) to the Dish box, and let the Dish initialize it.

Then took both drives, plugged them into an Intel computer, and booted up using a Knoppix Linux CD.

Both drives were recognized - the original drive had one partition, with a folder called DishArc - full of files. This was mounted as /media/sde2

The 1T drive had two partitions, each with a DishArc folder. One partition was 500G, the second partition was 463G or so. These partitions were mounted as /media/sdf2 and /media/sdf3. There was also a third partition which claimed to be the full 1TB capacity. (/media/sdf1) It was empty, and in fact didn't have any room on it.

I opened a terminal window, did a su, then "cp -Rpv /media/sde2/DishArc /media/sdf2.

It took a LONG time - 6.5 hours or so!

I left /media/sdf3 alone.

I then shut down Linux, plugged the 1TB drive back into the Dish box, held my breath and crossed my fingers - and powered the disk up...

Eurica! The Dish box said "There is a drive connected to your USB port, do you want to use it?" - I said yes, and it came up!

All my original 400G of stuff is all there and plays. And I now have over 500G free!

So -
1. A smaller disk can be copied to a larger disk - Yea! and,
2. doing archival backups is sure possible too.

As it was doing the extrememly slow copy I was thinking that maybe there are some cp blocking options that would make that part of the process not take so long - but at this point just knowing that I never have to worry about lossing all my programs again is good enough for me!

Hurray for Knoppix Linux, hurray for the good help from you all on this forum! In particular - thanks gms49ers!

Maybe now that I have things as I want on the 1TB drives I can do the archiving faster next time using something like Ghost or TrueImage - I'll probably give that a try. I'll let you know how that goes once I give it a whirl.

 

[gms49ers]

Woo-Hoo! Success!

Hurray for Knoppix Linux, hurray for the good help from you all on this forum! In particular - thanks gms49ers!

Glad I could be of help.

I must have tempted fate too much, because when I went to move some content to my external drive last evening, the DVR wouldn't recognize it, and wanted to format it.

Again (3rd time now).

So I too am now in the process of copying everything off the drive to my backup so I can let the DVR initialize it....

 

[TheKrell]

The 1T drive had two partitions, each with a DishArc folder. One partition was 500G, the second partition was 463G or so.

One wonders why Dish added this superfluous complication? ext3 volumes have no trouble reaching 2TB.

 

[mikejstb]

One wonders why Dish added this superfluous complication? ext3 volumes have no trouble reaching 2TB.

I was very surprised to see that too.

 

[mikejstb]

Glad I could be of help.

I must have tempted fate too much, because when I went to move some content to my external drive last evening, the DVR wouldn't recognize it, and wanted to format it.

Again (3rd time now).

So I too am now in the process of copying everything off the drive to my backup so I can let the DVR initialize it....

oh no! Having that happen to me a couple of times is what started me on this quest. Good thing you have the setup to get things restored!

I was going to wait until the weekend to do a full backup of my 1T drive - now I think I'll just go ahead and do that right now! I think while I'm doing it I'll play with the image-type of backup. I'm curious to see if that works at all - I think it ought to - and am curious to see if an compression is possible. But mostly I'd like to see the process take less than 6 hours or so.

 

[harshness]

Remember that 1TB drive will die someday and all is lost, I prefer multiple 250/320GB hard drives. Cost per GB is a little higher, but there is safety in numbers.

You can simulate the reliability of multiple drives by not having a big drive running when you're not using it. One of the beauties of the DISH Network EHD model is that you can plug and unplug to your heart's content as long as there isn't any traffic.

 

[harshness]

One wonders why Dish added this superfluous complication? ext3 volumes have no trouble reaching 2TB.

There may be some overhead issues that show up when the partitions become very large. Consider that the DISH receiver doesn't have as much horsepower as a common Linux box.

 

[mikejstb]

You can simulate the reliability of multiple drives by not having a big drive running when you're not using it. One of the beauties of the DISH Network EHD model is that you can plug and unplug to your heart's content as long as there isn't any traffic.

I have a 722, don't know if it gets upset plugging/unplugging.

But my opinion is that drives left powered up and spinning will last longer than drives that are frequently power-cycled as long as they are kept cool and vibration-free. I harp about cooling a lot! But storage devices is my life as it were.

Also, I haven't seen any evidence that 1T drives are any less reliable than smaller capacity drives. And as we know if you double the number of parts in a system you half the mtbf. So - large drives, kept cool, and frequently backed up is my ideal. Of course there are 2T drives available now....but I really think 1T will be plenty, at least until Dish gives us some better ways to organize stuff on the external drive.

Being in the drive test business I have another advantage - every time I take a drive down to backup I can test it, see if it's performance has degraded, see if any errors are accumulating - basically get a real good view of whether the drive is struggling and on it's way out or not.

 

[mikejstb]

Yikes!

I just started a TrueImage disk clone to see how long that might take to backup my 1T drive. It has been running for 30 minutes and the progress bar hadn't come off the left side yet. It just bumped up and now it is estimating 17 hours to compete!

That's way to slow!

I guess I'll stop this process, take the SATA drives out of their USB boxes and connect them up via mobo SATA ports and see if that makes things better. It ought to - I usually see around 50MB/sec sustained I/O with current SATA drives.

I'll post how that goes.

 

[DefDude]

here is a thread I started when the EHD feature was started. This trick has worked since the first day with the seagate freeagent with no problems if followed correctly. I use it all the time for my pocketdish to transfer DRM stuff without losing the original. I have just used it recently to make copies of the 24 PPV movies. I record the original ,send it to the EHD and then send copies back to the 722. :up I was able to make copies to watch whenever I want till the expiration date, not sure what will happen then because the first expiration date on one is not until june 4th, I was going to update my thread after that. I saw a post about seagate having a firmware update to fix the sleep issue, but I'm not sure if they changed the newer ones. Maybe someone knows if the new ones are fixed, if so you might still find the older ones online. This trick is by far the easiest way to make copies, you only need your remote once your seagate goes to sleep. here is the link to the thread. I updated the info a few times so the info towards the end of the thread is more up to date. http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ake-copys-ext-hard-drive-back-your-622-a.html It's best to do one at a time when you first try , but I have been able to copy ten or more movies at the same time with no problems.

 

[mikejstb]

here is a thread I started when the EHD feature was started. This trick has worked since the first day with the seagate freeagent with no problems if followed correctly. I use it all the time for my pocketdish to transfer DRM stuff without losing the original. I have just used it recently to make copies of the 24 PPV movies. I record the original ,send it to the EHD and then send copies back to the 722. :up I was able to make copies to watch whenever I want till the expiration date, not sure what will happen then because the first expiration date on one is not until june 4th, I was going to update my thread after that. I saw a post about seagate having a firmware update to fix the sleep issue, but I'm not sure if they changed the newer ones. Maybe someone knows if the new ones are fixed, if so you might still find the older ones online. This trick is by far the easiest way to make copies, you only need your remote once your seagate goes to sleep. here is the link to the thread. I updated the info a few times so the info towards the end of the thread is more up to date. http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ake-copys-ext-hard-drive-back-your-622-a.html It's best to do one at a time when you first try , but I have been able to copy ten or more movies at the same time with no problems.

Hi DefDude - I had a look at your previous post but I don't get it. My internal drive is much smaller than my external. That's the point of the external drive - I want to save LOTS of programs. And I want backups outside of the Dish box environment for safe keeping.

I don't see that your method does this.