Back to the Basics - Please Help!

[linuxman]

Hi Mike,

I am sorry you have had this headache too.

Hopefully mine will be over tomorrow.

One good thing to come out of it. I probably have the most peaked and tweaked 10' BUD in history. I should be able to get every channel that is available.

Fred

 

[Mike045]

Hi Fred,
The most eastward satellite that I can get in IntelSat 805 (55,5W), and to the west I can go up to Galaxy 11 (91 W), cause of the trees. But give me a month and a half or so, I will then search the sky for the signals when the leaves are gone. Usually in late autumn and winter, I can get analog signals up to AMC 7 (137W).
We will then compare the results of our tweaking.

Mike

 

[linuxman]

Sounds good to me Mike!

I am sure you have gone through everything I have and more. They both should be just about perfect.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Please help me out here!

I have started a new thread, because I am back to square one almost.

I won't bore you with all I have gone through since 1:00 PM today to try and make some sense out of the situation, so I am going back to the basics and start from the ground up. Suffice it to say that I don't think the DiSEqC switch was bad, it might have been, but I haven't had much better results out of the new one until just a few minutes ago.

I have factory reset the Pansat at least 4 times and maybe more today trying to make two separate ports on the Diseqc switch work independently one on KU, and the other on C-Band.

Here is what I have:

I have the KU Lnb hooked to port 4 on the Diseqc switch, and the C-Band LNB hooked onto port 3 on the Diseqc switch. I am no longer routing through the Vbox II. I am not hooked up to the hi-frequency switches. The analog is turned off in the hopes of finding the real problem. The Vbox II is hooked up, but only for moving the dish at the moment. No RG-6 through it for now. It is a stand alone positioner for the moment.

Right now the system is working with KU channels on the KU port, and C-Band channels on the C-Band port. All of this is being done on Galaxy 11, my TS sat.

I have great quality on C-Band, and some transponders on KU that are great, and some that are in the 60 -70 range.

First problem that I have discovered. My skew is 180 degrees out of where it is supposed to be. If you are on G-11, and you are in the antenna install menu, you should see some quality signal on The WB. It is the first TP, and even though not setup, the signal should be there. Mine is not unless I set the skew at 180 degrees from where the factory setting is.

What would cause that? Something in the servo motor not set correctly at the factory? Remember this is a brand new Co-Rotor II Plus. KU LNB is at 10:30, and C-Band LNB is at 4:30.

I am going to start with that question. I am exhausted. My brain is dead. I am going to bed.

Any help you can give is deeply appreciated. I will try and respond in the morning before Church. But probably won't make any changes until after I get back home.

The good news is, I finally have pretty decent signal on both KU and C-Band.

There is a definite problem other than the skew above. I don't know exactly what it is yet, but with all of you guys helping me. I am certain we can find it.

Thanks in advance. I wouldn't have even come as far as I have without all of your collective help.

You are a great bunch of guys!!!!

Fred

 

[Lynskyn]

It sounds like your feedhorn is not aligned with the polar axis. When you say the Ku LNB is at 10:30 and your C-band LNB is at 4:30, is that while it's pointed at G11 or when it's flipped over to the east and you're facing it from the roof? When it's flipped to the east, it should be more like Ku at 2:30 and C-band at 8:30.

 

[linuxman]

Hi Lynskyn,

I have to set it with it flipped over on the East, but I am lining it up by looking at the polar axis. I used the template at first which put the KU LNB at about 11:00 and I moved it a little further away from the polar axis to arrive at 10:30. I have always used the polar axis double rib as the alignment point.

Thanks for responding,

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Just an additional thought after sleeping on it.

Help me understand what the DiSEqC switch is, and does? If it is only a conduit that is looked at by the receiver as ports 1-4, and the switch seldom goes bad, perhaps the problem lies in the receivers not fully forgetting a previous setting as to which port the lnb's are hooked to.

The factory reset in the menu doesn't seem to make it forget either. The problem with the skew and the DiSEqC settings may be related.

Fred

 

[voomvoom]

Fred, here's something you can try. You could take the servo motor off, and take it inside, and hook it to the analog receiver, and change the channel to watch slot for the probe, to see how it travels. It should move about 95-100 degrees one way or the other, out of a possible 190-200 degrees. Then, hook it to the Pansat to see if there's any difference. If it doesn't look right, you can move the slot with your hand to get it to move as freely as possible when you change channels. Then when you place it back on the dish, move the slot on the Corotor II to match the slot on the servo motor to line it up, so it will match the free movement. Then if necessary, peak the feedhorn.

Al

 

[linuxman]

Hi Al,

I am definitely going to print this out and keep it for trial a little later today.

I have been reading since I came home from church in the fta forum about Pansat's and diseqc problems, and am going to download the channel list and take a look at it in Gd-tools or whatever it is called. I don't think a factory reset is getting rid of the diseqc settings for one thing, it very well not be getting rid of any bad skew settings I may have changed.

I also read where Iceberg mentioned deleting all the TP's except one for each satellite.

Prior to putting the Pansat online, the Analog worked fine with factory skew etc. so your suggestion above may be the answer. The pansat and analog may be moving the servo motor differently.

I want to see if the channel list tells me anything first.

Thanks,
Fred

 

[linuxman]

I looked at the channel list with G-Tools, and Channel Master. I think it is strange how the Pansat saves the file as a .bin file and it's own editor won't read that type of file, but you can open it in Channel Master, and save it as a .gtd file and then G-Tools can open it.

Channel Master does not show any diseqc ports on any sat except G-11/C and G-11/KU which of course I now have on ports 3 and 4 respectively. The only two that work. I think I will delete all the TP's out of those sats, and do a factory reset and see what it puts back in their place and see where the skew is.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Hi Al,

I deleted all the channels and TP's off of G-11 on the C and Ku sides. Did a factory reset. Disconnected the coax from the back, did another factory reset. Shut it off, turned off the switch on the back, let it set for about 5 minutes.

The factory reset put the TP's back like they were with the skew angles the same as previously.

So what you said above, may be the only answer. I did ask Rick of Ricks Satellites where he sets the Co-Rotor for use with analog and dvb reception. His answer was that he sets the KU LNB at 9:00 and the C-Band LNB at 3:00. Everyone here said 10:30 and 4:30, so I went with the recommendation here.

I am a little leary of taking apart the servo motor. I will if I have to, but don't really want to. I would rather try the 3-9 angle first.

Do you have any idea what advantage changing the angle might do for me?

Thanks, Fred

 

[linuxman]

I'll answer my own question from above since I tried it, and it works.

The advantage of setting the KU LNB at 9:00 and the C-Band LNB at 3:00 on the Co-Rotor is that somehow, some way, it miraculously changed the H - TP's on G-11 to a positive 45 skew number, and the V - TP's to a negative 45 skew number in the Pansat satellite setup screen. It gave me a signal that was lock on-able for the TP"S and allowed me for the first time to actually click on the little area at the bottom of the satellite setup menu, change it to FTA only, and found all the main stations both on C and KU without having to do a blind scan. It also gave me a signal on TP 1 where the WB lives for now, and I saw a signal. I don't know how it did, or why it did it, but I am very happy about that.

After doing that, I went back into the satellite setup menu, and adjusted the skew, and now have quality C-Band signal some in the 90's and some in the 60's. I have KU quality signal mostly in the 60 - 70 range. I have never had great KU on G-11 except on a couple of feeds from time to time because it was compromised during satellite aiming to get better KU on SBS and other outer sats.

So to the next step of the puzzle.

At one point yesterday, I thought I had this all worked out by starting like I am now and slowly adding pieces of the setup back in. One of those pieces was putting the Vbox II back in for positioning by clicking on channels from inside the Pansat and instantly moving to that sat and channel.

The other was adding the analog box back in with the Hi-Freq switches as a slave.

Both of these steps caused a lot of problems yesterday, which resulted in my being back at square one last night.

I think I will add the analog box back in at this point, just to check that it and the Pansat are on the same page as far as skew. When I did this yesterday, one of the Hi-Freq switches caused the Pansat to reboot after hooking it up. It was the C-Band set, and when I disconnected it, the Pansat was fine. I just got back from the Rat Shack where I picked up a new Hi-Freq switch, just in case.

Stay tuned and thanks for all your help,

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Ok so now I have the Hi-Freq setup with the analog as slave again. I was right in that I had a bad Hi-Freq switch. Tried the original again and it rebooted the Pansat. Put the new one in from the Rat Shack, and now all is working fine. The analog and the Pansat are on the same page as far as skew is concerned. The splitter I got from Rat Shack is #16-2568. It says 40-2150MHz. The original says 5-2300MHz. Those of you who know, tell me if I got the right one please.

I am almost afraid to hook the Vbox II back up. I factory reset it yesterday, and think I will again today before I put it back in line. I like this box, and I like the ability to fine tune the E/W movement with the separate remote. It could have been the Hi-Freq switch that caused all the rukus, so here goes.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Ok,

So now I know who the culprit was. It was the Vbox II.

I now have a blown ku Hi-Freq switch. I knew I should have picked up two while I was at the Rat Shack. No big deal, just no ku on the analog.

But more importantly, it made the remaining other port on the DiSEqC switch unusable. I can still get C-Band through the DiSEqC switch, but have to hook the KU Band coax directly into the Pansat.

I can still go through and set up satellites and have them ready when I get the Vbox exchanged with Sadoun on Tuesday. The Vbox still works as a stand alone positioner.

The good news is, I have good quality signal on both digital C-Band and KU-Band. I have the Co-Rotor set correctly for me, The analog works with the right skew setup, so if I can get a new Vbox II to replace this defective one, I'll be in business. Plus a new DiSEqC switch, and another Hi-Freq switch.

Thanks for all who helped!! It has been greatly appreciated.

Fred

 

[Lynskyn]

Everyone here said 10:30 and 4:30, so I went with the recommendation here.

Except me - I said 2:30 and 8:30 so I was pretty close

 

[linuxman]

Yes you did Lynskyn, and you were right.

I remembered a little more of the conversation I had with Rick on the phone the other day. He said the reason he did it that way, because a long time ago, there was a stop in the old Co-Rotor that wouldn't allow you to set it anywhere else. After the newer Co-Rotor II's came out the stop wasn't there any more, but he had been doing it that way for several years, and saw no reason to stop. It worked for him, and now it is working for me.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[voomvoom]

Hi Fred, was gone all day yesterday. Reading up on your experiments, glad you're learning alot, and you're teaching me alot. When I do get around to getting the VBOX II, it's good to know you'll be there to give me the knowkedge and advice I'll need. When you get it all together, you can do a review on the VBOX II for the FTA/Mpeg2 Equipment Review section.

Al

 

[linuxman]

Hey Al,

I'll be glad to do a review on the Vbox II once I get it up and running again. I like that box, and I hope it can be worked out.

On another subject, if I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Now the polarizer on the Pansat has gone kerflewy. I got H only, no skew, and no V at all. I hooked the wires up to the analog, and it works ok there, so the servo motor is fine, but nothing on the Pansat. I left it on a Horizontal channel last night, and when I turned it on this morning, only H channels. I have tried a factory reset, I have unplugged it and let it set for at least 30 minutes. No indication, no smoke, nothing of any kind.

Just quit. How about them apples?

Fred

 

[mikekohl]

Regarding the 4 input DiSEqC switch connnections.
On a number of brands, it is recommended to only connect ports 1 and 2 first,
adding #3 when you have a third LNB or LNBF connection, and finally #4 for a fourth. If you are only using two LNB connections and are connecting them to #3 and #4, leaving #1 and #2 not connected to anything, one will often find that this creates a logic problem in some receivers. So use 1 and 2 first.

Hi Frequency Power Dividers.
The proper HFS device for this purpose uses a DC blocked left side output,
with power passing right side output. If you are using standard all power pass output type divider, voltage will cross into your logic circuit and interfere with DiSEqC commands. The most reliable way to power a C/Ku system is with an old fashioned analog IRD, connect the powered (right side) outputs to that IRD, which will power the LNBs. the left side outputs of each power divider should have no DC power going into the DiSEqC circuit. While not as convenient as a V-Box, older IRDs such as Drake and Toshiba are much more reliable, and when connected in the above manner, should eliminate all of the problems you have been having.

Happy Labor Day!

 

[linuxman]

Hi Mikekohl,

Haven't had the pleasure yet. I have however read a lot of the information on your website. It is a very good site.

What you have written above explains a lot.

The two Hi-Freq splitters I got from Sadoun originally say power pass on both sides, of which both of them no longer function.

The one I got from Radio shack yesterday says the same thing. After reading your post, I have taken it out of the loop. I now only have the Pansat hooked up to the C-Band LNB.

I did have the LNB's hooked to ports 1 and 2 of the DiSEqC switch when I started, but when they no longer worked probably because the Hi-Freq switches allowed them to be blown, not knowing any better I tried whatever ports were available until they no longer worked.

The other big problem I have is now with the polarizer on the Pansat. I left on an errand and was gone about an hour. When I left, I had the Pansat turned on and tuned into The WB on G-11. When I got home, there was no signal on the WB or any other H - TP, but now the 2 - V channels on G-11 are now functioning. That I don't understand.

Just like the verticals disappeared, now the horizontals have disappeared. Even after hooking directly to the LNB, I don't have the H - TP's. Is there an answer for why I am having a polarity problem? No one has been home while I was gone, so I know the receiver hasn't been touched.

So if I am correctly understanding your post above, you are recommending the analog receiver for driving the dish and powering the LNB's with the proper HFS device.

But if one wants to attempt to use the Vbox, it must be done with the proper HFS devices. Is that correct? Otherwise all h*!! breaks loose as I have experienced.

Thank you for your post, it has been very informative. I understand that using the analog is the best way to do this, and had I had the proper devices, and a little more information, I might not have had problems at all with the Vbox II.

If you have any suggestions for the polarity problem, please let me know. I will get the proper switches and I want to try and make the Vbox II work one more time. If I can't make it work, I will follow your advice and simply use the analog for moving the dish etc.

Thanks,

Fred