AZBox DiSEqC 1.2 Error During Blindscan

[T134]

After Hugo bailed, HTCE seemed overeager to sell the AZBox branded STBs to anyone with cash. I was contacted by their sales department several times, but never ordered any samples. HTCE certainly showed no consideration or loyalty to anyone currently selling their products in North America.

I saw the way the wind was blowing with AZ in EU and NA at the end of 2011 and am glad I got away from AZ when it was still a decent and real company. That trading company looked to me to be a typical China trading company, aka whores. They wanted the money from anyone that would put it upfront, then they maybe have the products build and shipped and maybe give a little support.

A serious question for thought: Could the Tek2000 AZBoxes merely be grey market from HTCE and not clones?

I only looked at this site once a long time ago when Dave and Michael brought it up on Sat Nation. The first thing I noticed was the full selection of Dish Network pirate boxes. Beyond that, just reading here at Satguys I've seen enough bad things about product quality where I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

If HTCE would have paid the/a factory to do a HD+ production run then technically at the time those would have been legit AZ since they owned the right to slap an AZbox sticker on whatever they want. That never happened. As many people know, it is not unheard of for a factory in China to continue to produce a product after they lose a contract or there are no more orders. While technically illegal even in China said product would technically be the same thing, at least until they run out of parts and start substituting junk parts and cutting corners.

As for clones/counterfeits, it is a bit hard to call something an AZ clone when there is no AZbox. I wouldn't recommend anyone buys one but unless the actual trademark and IP holder of the "AZbox" name does something there is little that can be done. I happen to know a ton about trademark and IP law. If anyone is given a DMCA or IP infringement notice they can easily counter since there are no trademark documents or an AZbox company to authorize anyone to take action on their behalf. Bottom line is those legacy boxes were full of problems from the start. It was a poor design that basically sacrificed normal features, stability and useability just so it could do 4:2:2 on some feeds, sometimes. I'd hate to see a cheapened version of that with 3 year old software. When I was selling actual AZboxes through Rick I talked more guys out of them than I ever sold. Most people found out quickly that they really didn't need 4:2:2 especially when they found out everything else the box couldn't do.

 

[Titanium]

Trust, I'll get that link for you. A member had found the information on an Eastern Europe hobbyist site and alerted me to it. It may have been telespudnik.

Edit: don't see any recent firmware updates on the Dr HD website, so I wonder if it was a patch release?

 

[Keith Brannen]

As for clones/counterfeits, it is a bit hard to call something an AZ clone when there is no AZbox. I wouldn't recommend anyone buys one but unless the actual trademark and IP holder of the "AZbox" name does something there is little that can be done. I happen to know a ton about trademark and IP law. If anyone is given a DMCA or IP infringement notice they can easily counter since there are no trademark documents or an AZbox company to authorize anyone to take action on their behalf.

Your above statement makes no sense, as the AZBox trademark still exists (and owned by HTCE).

As well, the AZBoxes were made in Korea, not China.

Anyhow, more importantly, while I was searching AZBox at http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4802:3170wm.1.1 I also searched on Amiko, and the only trademark for it was not for your products. I also checked the Canadian site http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/tmSrch.do?lang=eng and there was no listing for Amiko (and was one for AZBox).

My question is, even though the Amiko trademark is not registered in either the USA or Canada, is it registered elsewhere that allows jurisdiction in North America (and any other countries internationally where it also may not be registered) to keep Amiko clones "off the streets"?

 

[sacket]

I have had an AZBox since 2012, purchased brand new from a dealer in Ontario, not from the guy in question. The Ontario dealer was supplied by Rick in the USA. It was brought to my attention that I maybe had purchased a clone, so being green sent info to this guy and the response was I had a clone and for "x" amount of dollars things would be set right. Rick set me straight with facts and no BS, an outstanding person. I have moved on and now this guys name is coming up again wanting every one else to do the work to make the ASC1 work with the AZBox to fix the soft limits. This crap pisses me off and at my age it don't take to much. People like World Wide Satellites, Rick Cayer have been over the top in helping solve problems in the past. Now that in the last two weeks I have purchased an ASC1 to complement my AZBox, Brian has been very informative and answered my emails very professional taking into my lack of knowledge, keep up the good work. I am proud of myself now, with constructive help the receiver is working very well with the ASC1, after the blind scan just reset the soft limits in the ASC1 same as I had to do with the VBox and GBox takes all of two seconds. I know who to stay far away from, don't even use their software, pure BS.

 

[T134]

Your above statement makes no sense, as the AZBox trademark still exists (and owned by HTCE).

I didn't say the trademark didn't exist somewhere, but it is up to them and/or a legally appointed representative to enforce it. Since HTCE doesn't appear to be functioning anymore and/or transferred the name to yet someone else. If no company exists or is operating then there is no one to bring a legitimate trademark claim.

As well, the AZBoxes were made in Korea, not China.

I guess that means the "clones" weren't built at the original factory then. It doesn't change the fact that without the trademark holder being active and doing something that they or anyone else can rebuff a trademark infringement claim. Bottom line, I wouldn't touch one of those things even if it was from the original factory.

My question is, even though the Amiko trademark is not registered in either the USA or Canada, is it registered elsewhere that allows jurisdiction in North America (and any other countries internationally where it also may not be registered) to keep Amiko clones "off the streets"?

Amiko brand name is owned by Edictum/Karmacom Kft in Hungary. You might want to check the European Union, which is where the trademark was originally registered. There was no need to individually register it in other countries. I have no problem enforcing our trademark and IP rights anywhere in the world except China since they don't care about pesky things like trademarks and laws. The reason why I don't have problems is that I have legal documentation from Edictum/Karmacom appointing me as their authorized representative in matters of trademark and IP. Between the registered trademark, my authorization to enforce it and the fact that the company that makes the product and owns the trademark is a viable operating business it is not a problem. Since counterfeits of a STB we haven't imported here in over a year aren't much of an issue anymore I pretty much just have to file DMCA's every once and awhile for illegal use of Amiko materials generated here in NA.

 

[GreatFTA]

With the limits issue from the AZBox receivers, this goes with both the BUD and small dish actuators?
I'm using a 7 foot dish with a c/ku lnbf and was using my 922 to move the dish.
Forgive me for being ignorant on this issue.

 

[Titanium]

With the limits issue from the AZBox receivers, this goes with both the BUD and small dish actuators?
I'm using a 7 foot dish with a c/ku lnbf and was using my 922 to move the dish.
Forgive me for being ignorant on this issue.

Yes, both BUD and small dish actuators when using DiSEqC 1.2 motor control.

Don't feel bad. I have been in the satellite industry for over 30 years and didn't know about this problem either!

 

[GreatFTA]

Thanks Titanium. I ordered the ASC1 from you on Christmas Eve. I'm excited about it.
My wife may use it for my tombstone after she kill me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Titanium]

Thanks Titanium. I ordered the ASC1 from you on Christmas Eve. I'm excited about it.
My wife may use it for my tombstone after she kill me.

Thank you! LOL! Even though this isn't in the product description, it would make a great heavy tombstone that vandals would have difficulty damaging!

 

[Keith Brannen]

Amiko brand name is owned by Edictum/Karmacom Kft in Hungary. You might want to check the European Union, which is where the trademark was originally registered. There was no need to individually register it in other countries. I have no problem enforcing our trademark and IP rights anywhere in the world except China since they don't care about pesky things like trademarks and laws. The reason why I don't have problems is that I have legal documentation from Edictum/Karmacom appointing me as their authorized representative in matters of trademark and IP. Between the registered trademark, my authorization to enforce it and the fact that the company that makes the product and owns the trademark is a viable operating business it is not a problem. Since counterfeits of a STB we haven't imported here in over a year aren't much of an issue anymore I pretty much just have to file DMCA's every once and awhile for illegal use of Amiko materials generated here in NA.

Thanks for the information, I was wondering if the fact that it was registered in the EU only required any additional "hoops" to jump through. Good to know you have no problem protecting the trademark if and when necessary (especially since another round of clones is always a possibility).

 

[Hockeynut]

This has been an issue with all AZ`s from the first time I bought my first 1 in 2009.It is an inconvenience for sure but really no big deal.Currently using an AZPlus and an AZUltra to each move around a 10 footer.Once done scanning just go into positioner setup and disable the limits and you are back in business moving your dish around.This works with an ASC1,Vbox or Gbox..But in all reality the blindscanning AZ`s are so slow for blindscanning ( altho very accurate )I never use them anymore for that purpose.What I mostly use here is the Amiko Mini HD and it has it`s own 10 footer to push around and handles most all blindscanning and what it finds I just grab the info and go to either my Ultra or Plus If it happens to be something I want to watch.Keeps the Mini free to scan some more...

 

[updatelee]

Clones don't impact bugs being made but they certainly reduce the chance of them getting fixed in future firmware updates. As you know, developers don't work for free so the more people buying clones, the less money coming in to keep paying the development team in order to resolve these issues.

Speak for yourself. I do all my development for free. Many do, ever heard of OpenPLi? yeah, another one where developers don't get paid. There are lots of azbox's running enigma2. Its called open source and its about giving back to the community... You chose the closed source route, the path where you pay developers. Dont complain to everyone about choices you made. You had other options.

I must come from a different mindset, but I just cant imagine telling people I provide support for a product that I dont have 100% control over. You only have bits and pieces of code here and there, you cant support it. I dont even charge for support lol, I cant imagine charging people cold hard cash to support a product that I cant actually support.

This bug is so incredibly trivial to fix, its mind blowing its gone on as long as it has.

UDL

 

[pwrsurge]

But in all reality the blindscanning AZ`s are so slow for blindscanning ( altho very accurate )I never use them anymore for that purpose.

While this is true for second generation AzBox HD models (Ultra & Premium HD Plus), blindscan performance on third generation AzBox HD models (Me & miniMe American Edition) is on par with other current STB models in the North American market.

 

[pwrsurge]

I must come from w different mindset, but I just cant imagine telling people I provide support for a product that I dont have 100% control over. You only have bits and pieces of code here and there, you cant support it. I dont even charge for support lol, I cant imagine charging people cold hard cash to support a product that I cant actually support.

This bug is so incredibly trivial to fix, its mind blowing its gone on as long as it has.

UDL

We had reported this bug to OpenSat quite a while back before the Premium HD Plus and even the Ultra model got discontinued and it was supposed to be fixed. However when clones started getting introduced into the market (not only the P+ in NA but Ultra in Europe as well), development was put on hold for these models so they never got the chance to do it.

As previously stated, we could easily fix this bug if we had the source code for the module in question. We will make an effort in getting in touch with the people we used to work with when these units were still being developed to see if it's possible to get the source code we need.

 

[pwrsurge]

This has been an issue with all AZ`s from the first time I bought my first 1 in 2009.

It really only impacts the 2nd generation Ultra or Premium HD Plus models as the 1st generation Premium HD or Elite models don't have true hardware blindscan.

 

[Titanium]

We had reported this bug to OpenSat quite a while back before the Premium HD Plus and even the Ultra model got discontinued and it was supposed to be fixed. However when clones started getting introduced into the market (not only the P+ in NA but Ultra in Europe as well), development was put on hold for these models so they never got the chance to do it.

Give me a break! Clones shut down AZBox firmware development? That is the most ridiculous explanation for the abandonment of AZBox development. that I have heard.

AZBox imploded in 2011/2012 with the engineers departing during the transition from these models to the ME/miniME. AXBox didn't have the engineering staff to properly develop the ME/miniME, let alone fix the problems with the models in distribution at that time. Hugo sold the company and left a lot of problems behind....

Clones didn't kill AZBox. AZBox killed AZBox.

 

[Hockeynut]

We had reported this bug to OpenSat quite a while back before the Premium HD Plus and even the Ultra model got discontinued and it was supposed to be fixed. However when clones started getting introduced into the market (not only the P+ in NA but Ultra in Europe as well), development was put on hold for these models so they never got the chance to do it.

As previously stated, we could easily fix this bug if we had the source code for the module in question. We will make an effort in getting in touch with the people we used to work with when these units were still being developed to see if it's possible to get the source code we need.

Good luck with that!What are the odds of getting in touch with OpenSat developers now there doors are closed!!!..Would be cool to get that bug squared away but even if it is squared away I can think of several other options to blindscan so much quicker.

 

[Hockeynut]

While this is true for second generation AzBox HD models (Ultra & Premium HD Plus), blindscan performance on third generation AzBox HD models (Me & miniMe American Edition) is on par with other current STB models in the North American market.

Yup...Thought this thread was about the 2nd gen of AZ`s and that would fall into the category of the Ultra and Plus models..I must say I would like to try out anAZMe or MiniMe but it is hard to justify the cost and what it can do better than a 1st or 2nd gen AZ....I have turned to the puter and built my own setup as I do not expect a receiver to do all I want..But as far as a receiver goes an original AZ still to this day can not be beat!!!! Hands down!!!.

 

[pwrsurge]

Give me a break! Clones shut down AZBox firmware development? That is the most ridiculous explanation for the abandonment of AZBox development. that I have heard.

AZBox imploded in 2011/2012 with the engineers departing during the transition from these models to the ME/miniME. AXBox didn't have the engineering staff to properly develop the ME/miniME, let alone fix the problems with the models in distribution at that time. Hugo sold the company and left a lot of problems behind....

Clones didn't kill AZBox. AZBox killed AZBox.

As you were never an AzBox distributor, how can prove that the statements you made are true? Are you simply using T134's hearsay as fact?
How can you make such statements with GeoSatpro support being abandoned once you started Titanium and jumped ship to supporting an STB competitor's brand? Last I checked, the now infamous boot loop bug still hasn't been fixed on the microHD and from what I saw, there's still lots of unresolved issues with the HDVR1200.

FYI, only a few engineers left OpenSat once the AzBox legacy models got discontinued. We continued to work with the remaining core engineers during development on the Me and miniMe while still supporting the legacy models. Even in 2014, we still remained in contact with these engineers via Skype.

 

[Titanium]

Twisting the AZBox history and repeating BS doesn't make truth. No need to blame clones for what the company did to their own company. You didn't break AZBox, they did!

I certainly am not relying on anyone else's story as of what happened with AZBox. Was in regular communication with them during the implosion and lived the experience. In 2011, was offered the legacy models to distribute in North America, but luckily decided to wait until ME/miniME release. When the primary AZ engineers defected, everything slowed then ground to a halt. A few months later Hugo was gone and OpenSat was no longer replying to emails. This is not fiction, hearsay or fantasy. Everyone (almost) who was conducting business with them in 2011-2012 tells of a similar experience.

I sold a company, made my services available and have not been contracted to provide support for any projects. No need to respond with any additional comments to your inappropriate personal attack.