AZBOX AZ Box Finds TPs But NO Channels On Blind Scan

[madmadworld]

box go boom

Keith when you delete a transponder in an AZBox Elite or Ultra it automatically deletes any channels that were on it. It might do that on others too but I don't have any others to know for sure.

on every AZ i've owned if you delete a tp without deleting the channel first the channel list will go corrupt.
been there done that.
will do the same if channel stays and you alter the tp and scan in new. ex: #1 12190 v 29270
#2 alter for new 12190 v 13235.......box go boom lol
every other box i've owned it made no difference.
another reason not to scan radio because i'd forget them and blow up my list.............

 

[Keith Brannen]

Nope, not both receivers Keith!! The Elite doesn't do blind scan so it doesn't do it.

LOL! Not thinking when I wrote that! Just had it in my head because you had problems (though completely different) with it, as well.

 

[Keith Brannen]

on every AZ i've owned if you delete a tp without deleting the channel first the channel list will go corrupt.
been there done that.
will do the same if channel stays and you alter the tp and scan in new. ex: #1 12190 v 29270
#2 alter for new 12190 v 13235.......box go boom lol
every other box i've owned it made no difference.
another reason not to scan radio because i'd forget them and blow up my list.............

When I was asking about deleting channels/transponders, I thought there was something in the back of my mind that you should delete the channel first, and then the transponder, but couldn't recall exactly why. As I said, I usually just re-load in my channel list to delete feed channels (and then later may delete the transponder). But I have deleted radio transponders and gotten away with it, as usually I then re-scan, and then re-load in my channel list.

I have experienced the effect of altering a transponder SR, but have fortunately always had my saved channel list to fall back on, and then done it properly.

 

[Lone Gunman]

on every AZ i've owned if you delete a tp without deleting the channel first the channel list will go corrupt.
been there done that.
will do the same if channel stays and you alter the tp and scan in new. ex: #1 12190 v 29270
#2 alter for new 12190 v 13235.......box go boom lol
every other box i've owned it made no difference.
another reason not to scan radio because i'd forget them and blow up my list.............

Doesn't work that way with mine?? I NEVER DELETE CHANNELS BEFORE TPs and my channel list loads and works fine with firmware from 5020 forward. That channel list DOES NOT work with 4879 though as I tried to load it after I had done a test scan on 78w but each time it was back to the default satellite list after the reboot.

And yes, I have had problems with trying to edit existing TPs on the AZBoxes as well so I just delete them and make new ones that I need. I don't scan in radio stuff either mainly because I don't listen to it on the TV.

BTW Mad, it was one of your old posts that I found with a reference to that 4879 firmware that came on your Ultra. That was the reason I gave that one a try but that didn't fix it.

 

[madmadworld]

BTW Mad, it was one of your old posts that I found with a reference to that 4879 firmware that came on your Ultra. That was the reason I gave that one a try but that didn't fix it.

got the Ultra from another user.don't remember that firmware. makes me wonder what 5020 had that got me to update duh because i'm not a big updater when i sold the premium it had 2288.
Plus has 5309
but the tp channel issue is known. maybe radar or stargaze or other guru could chime in ?
that issue is the worse thing about these AZ's for me. jacked up my Ultra a few months back now after reloading it she handled funny for awhile but seems ok. hate doing that mazie & acc stuff makes me nervous/sweat lol
heck i just want to watch TV

installed your 5402

you are brave......

 

[stargaze]

I really don’t know why so many have the problems they list here in this thread.
I have several premium plus receivers and an ultra and do not have any of these hassles.

However, I must say that I also have created my own sat/channel lists and also deleted all the garbage transponders that come in the firmware!

If you are not removing the junk tp’s in the firmware and keeping all the unwanted Eastern Sats you are just asking for problems down the road as you use the receiver.

I am a strong supporter of North Americanizing the sat list to keep from having any unwanted problems in the future. (Use the ACC program to accomplish this properly).

I list 1 dummy tp on every satellite. Usually something like 3600 for the freq. and 10000 for the SR, on each c-band sat and on ku either the same or 10500 for the freq. and 10000 for the SR.
This is so that no blind scan will see them and everything else is removed.

My satellites are also all separated by polarity so I have a vertical side of AMC-11 and a Horizontal sat for AMC-11. Same for all ku sats.

I did this as my AZ receivers are slaved so I usually only scan by the polarity type, either H or V at a time. When scanning I wait till the receiver sees all that is available then save it before it actually tries to scan in the channels. Then I go into satellite menu screen and manually scan in the frequencies I know are good (by that I mean not data signals). The process works fine.

At times when I am blind scanning and leave it to do it’s job till it is completed, the receiver finds the channels as it should.

Now I should also bring up here about the flash memory available. You can find this out if you use the Maz program and if your flash memory is filled up could this be the reason some have the problems they are finding?

No one should be nervous about using the ACC program or Maz program as these utilities are what enables you to send the sat/channel list to the proper directories in the azbox and to download the one from the receiver so you can edit things from time to time.

If you spend a few hours one time creating your own N.A. sat channel list the way you want it to be it should serve you for years without problems. It is time well spent IMO.

Since the firmware is no longer being updated I will say I agree with many others that 0.9.5020 is still one of the better ones out there if you north Americanize your sat/channel lists.

If you do not re-do your sat/channel list then you will find problems using any of the firmware’s out there.

 

[Keith Brannen]

Definitely agree with Stargaze about the satellite list. My AZBox Ultra was North Americanized from day one (dealer installed, after they asked me whether I wanted the latest firmware and new satellite list). So I have rarely had any problems with the channel/satellite list (unless I've done something stupid!), other than a few minor "quirks", such as it re-sorting alphabetically if sometimes I move too quickly through the channel list, or sometimes it will re-sort by when the channels scanned in (instead of my sorted by satellite/moved list) if after a scan I go back to the TV section and hit the channel list before it has displayed the information of the channel it is currently on. Those are minor quirks easily recovered by re-loading in a saved channel list (and I always save it after any changes) or avoiding doing it in the first place.

But I also take precautions to avoid errors that others (or myself) have found, such as the above mentioned deleting of channels/transponders. Same with moving channels in the list, there is a certain procedure I follow which lessens any possibility of re-sorting of the list by the AZBox against my wishes!

While sometimes the issues are firmware related or satellite/channel list related, sometimes I can't help but thinking some receivers develop their own "personality" and have quirks others can't duplicate! LOL!

 

[Lone Gunman]

Well, as I've posted before in this thread it's not related to my channel list because it will do it in "factory reset" mode with only ONE satellite setup and scaned. I could understand it being my channel list if it only had problems AFTER that channel list was loaded but that's not the case.

Procedure I use is after positioning my dish on 78w and UNPLUGGING the Vbox X

1. load patch.bin on clean freshly FAT32 formatted flash drive
2. boot with flash drive inserted in the slot
3. select "format the application area"
4. select USB to install the firmware after it reboots from the format
5. select "boot without upgrade" after firmware install reboot
6. set video to NTSC
7. setup satellite @ 78w and put in one TP 4205 H 29270
8. setup antenna for 78w with 5150 LO (nothing else configured at this time)
9. select blind scan and change frequency range to 3600 to 4200
10.scan only TV and FTA

The results of every one of these I've done is that zero channels are found at which point I back out and do a Satellite Scan and it will get whatever channels are available.

 

[Keith Brannen]

Lone Gunman, your receiver is one that I think has developed a "personality"! Only thing I can think of to try in the procedure you listed is to format the application area three times, think it was Rick Caylor that suggested that to someone one time. Can't hurt to try.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Lone Gunman, your receiver is one that I think has developed a "personality"! Only thing I can think of to try in the procedure you listed is to format the application area three times, think it was Rick Caylor that suggested that to someone one time. Can't hurt to try.

Ok Keith. I'll give that a shot later this evening.

Thanks

 

[Lone Gunman]

Only thing I can think of to try in the procedure you listed is to format the application area three times, think it was Rick Caylor that suggested that to someone one time. Can't hurt to try.

Ok I did this this morning and it did the same thing afterwards. I did find out one thing of interest though. This morning I did a rescan of a satellite that only had one TP and 5 channels listed WITHOUT deleting that one TP. At the end of that scan the AZ UPDATED TO 3 TPs and 22 channels without going back to the Satellite Scan menu?? So if there's a TP and channel already in there it WILL update itself like it's suppose to??

More things that make you go....................HUMMMMMMMM!!

 

[pwrsurge]

Please try this procedure instead. Modified steps are in bold. This is to ensure that no settings from the previous firmware version are kept:

1. load patch.bin for firmware 0.9.5402 on clean freshly FAT32 formatted flash drive
2. boot with flash drive inserted in the slot
3. select "format the application area"
4. select USB to install the firmware after it reboots from the format
5. select "boot without upgrade" after firmware install reboot
5a. once booted, do factory reset from the Data reset menu.
5b. once rebooted with the USB stick still connected, select USB to install firmware 0.9.5402 again.
5c. select "boot without upgrade" after firmware install reboot.
6. set video to NTSC
7. setup satellite @ 78w and put in one TP 4205 H 29270
8. setup antenna for 78w with 5150 LO (nothing else configured at this time)
9. select blind scan and change frequency range to 3600 to 4200
9a. change minimum symbol rate from 1000 to 2000
10.scan only TV and FTA


Best regards,

PwrSurge
AzBox Canada

 

[Lone Gunman]

Please try this procedure instead. Modified steps are in bold. This is to ensure that no settings from the previous firmware version are kept:

1. load patch.bin for firmware 0.9.5402 on clean freshly FAT32 formatted flash drive
2. boot with flash drive inserted in the slot
3. select "format the application area"
4. select USB to install the firmware after it reboots from the format
5. select "boot without upgrade" after firmware install reboot
5a. once booted, do factory reset from the Data reset menu.
5b. once rebooted with the USB stick still connected, select USB to install firmware 0.9.5402 again.
5c. select "boot without upgrade" after firmware install reboot.
6. set video to NTSC
7. setup satellite @ 78w and put in one TP 4205 H 29270
8. setup antenna for 78w with 5150 LO (nothing else configured at this time)
9. select blind scan and change frequency range to 3600 to 4200
9a. change minimum symbol rate from 1000 to 2000
10.scan only TV and FTA


Best regards,

PwrSurge
AzBox Canada

Tried this today and it didn't do any different than the other firmware/procedure I've tried so I guess I'm stuck with it being like that from now on. One thing for sure though, I've definitely done enough firmware installs to last the rest of my life!

 

[Keith Brannen]

Ok I did this this morning and it did the same thing afterwards. I did find out one thing of interest though. This morning I did a rescan of a satellite that only had one TP and 5 channels listed WITHOUT deleting that one TP. At the end of that scan the AZ UPDATED TO 3 TPs and 22 channels without going back to the Satellite Scan menu?? So if there's a TP and channel already in there it WILL update itself like it's suppose to??

More things that make you go....................HUMMMMMMMM!!

Interesting! Now that you mention it, every satellite I scan does have at least one channel on it. Could be that is the key for your receiver. So either you keep a channel, if you can, or you have to satellite scan afterward. Don't know if you have a satellite that you don't have a channel on it or not, but if you do, then you could set up a fake channel on the fake transponder you always have, and see whether that accomplishes the same thing!

 

[Lone Gunman]

After having "real life" get in the way for the past day or so and also deciding I'd back away from this problem before I took a hammer to that box, I got back on it last night and found out what the problem is/was!

Post #16 and 18 and a couple of others have the source of this problem listed but no one picked it up and pwrsurge, if you did indeed try to duplicate my problem then you didn't do exactly as I did when doing those scans.

But first, let me set the stage for how I got into trouble to begin with. As Stargaze mentioned, he uses a TP frequency of 3600 for his "dummy" TP. Years ago when I first did my channel list I did the same, ie, had 3600 and 11700 for my "dummies" and that has worked well for me over the past few years in both boxes. Each time I did a rescan of a satellite I always delete all but the "dummy" TP and that operation required me to press 3 buttons on the remote to delete each TP, ie, AZBox defaults to lowest TP number (which was also my dummy) so I have to arrow over, then press delete, then press OK. Smart and lazy me, (insert the word dumbass here also) I decided that I'd move my "dummy" TP numbers out to the upper end of the frequency just to do away with ONE arrow button push when deleting TPs and since there are some TPs up near the end of that frequency range I just decided to use 4205 and 12205. WRONG!! I finally figured out that these numbers being outside the normal range of the default scan settings is what the problem was. I went back and changed those "dummy" TP numbers back to 3600 and 11700 and all is well now!

The reason the scans didn't work with fresh firmware installs and default channel list is because each time I created 78w, the one TP number I always put in was 4205 and or 12205! Did the same thing too with other sats that I scanned??

So, I broke one of my own rules I use where my race car is concerned, ie, NEVER CHANGE BUT ONE THING AT A TIME, and it bit me in the ass big time!! In my case I decided to change my dummy TP numbers at the same time I changed firmware! Note, insert dumbass comment from above here again!

Ennywho, thanks to all for trying to help with this and I guess the up side is we all now know about another of the AZBox quirks!

 

[Keith Brannen]

That is really strange, I would not have thought that it would be the cause of it, especially when you consider that the default Ku band I always have to change from 12900 down to 12200 to avoid scanning unused frequencies! You would think that it would only consider it a selective scan. Guess it doesn't like it for a first scan! Anyhow, glad you figured out what was causing the quirk!

 

[Lone Gunman]

UPDATE!!!

Ok, so I resurrected this post today because I found out what the problem is/was and thought I'd put info in here so others could see if my fix works with their AZ Ultra.

We all know that EVERY satellite has to have at least ONE TP/SR listed or you're in deep do do. So when I first got my AZ I was careful to always put in 3650/29270 and 11700/29270 for "dummy" TPs in their respective satellites.

Over the years I got to a point where I was doing more blind scans, which required deleting all existing TPs before that was done. What I found was having that "dummy" TP at the beginning and skipping over it, ie, 3650/11700" added one more key stroke to delete all the other TPs? So, smart ass that I am, I went to the opposite end for the "dummy" TPs creating one at 4199 and another at 12199 instead. This allowed me to delete TPs with only 2 keystrokes instead of 3. Good idea, right? WRONG ANSWER because as it turns out THAT was what caused the blind scan issue I was having!!!

Early this week I took an old channel list dated back in 2012 and loaded that one with a clean install of bin 5020 and noticed on the first scan without deleting any TPs that AZ scanned normally?? WTF?? So I looked at that pre scan and post scan satellite list and didn't see anything different other than the 3650 "dummy" TP from the old days?? So just to verify this I went back to that same satellite TP list and moved the "dummy" back to the end at 4199, then deleted all TPs and did a rescan and the problem was back?? Double WTF? So I went back to the 3650 TP "dummy", did a TP delete and rescan and all came out fine, ie, normal!!

So I spent 3 days this week completely redoing that old 2012 channel list and now I've scanned EVERYTHING in and had zero problems as long as the "dummy" TP was at the beginning of that list on each satellite.

This ain't rocket science, but it does take some attention to detail at times. Hope this helps someone else!!

 

[ZetaMale]

I've given up on the Azbox. I retired both the Ultra and the Elite. More trouble than it's worth to keep them working. I'm now using my GeoSatPro (which has been collecting dust since I bought it a year or 2 ago). Good luck in getting your Azbox units working.

 

[waylew]

I use my AZ Ultra every day and rarely have any trouble with it.Still running 5020 since what,5 years ago?,never put any of the newer updates in it.