ATSC 3.0 DRM Encryption

[dweber]

According to the Antenna-man video the following markets have utilized DRM encryption of their ATSC 3.0 broadcast.
Miami, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Baltimore, Maryland
Cincinnati, Ohio,
Birmingham, Alabama
Louisville, Kentucky
Greensboro, North Carolina
New Orleans, Louisiana


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Radioguy41]

Kind of reminds me of the early days of VHS/Beta tape recorders when the industry thought it could prevent copying (it couldn't). Remember how hard the industry then fought to prevent the mfg and sales of digital recorders? That didn't work either. Anybody remember how Atari tried so hard to prevent disk copying even going so far as to skew the sectors on the disk? That didn't work either and neither will this latest pipe dream. Someone(s) will devise a way around it probably before it's even fully implemented just like they have around all the "DRM protected" content now.

I'm not promoting hacking, just stating the realities of the electronics world. The notion that you can prevent people who really want to from recording and/or copying digital content is the product of minds who have spent far too much time in rooms full of funny smoke.

 

[Mr Tony]

According to the Antenna-man video the following markets have utilized DRM encryption of their ATSC 3.0 broadcast.
Miami, Florida
Orlando, Florida
Baltimore, Maryland
Cincinnati, Ohio,
Birmingham, Alabama
Louisville, Kentucky
Greensboro, North Carolina
New Orleans, Louisiana


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

other than Miami its a specific station (Usually a Hearst owned station). Here is the list (the red ones are scrambled)

RabbitEars.Info

RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.

rabbitears.info

 

[navychop]

And no ATSC 3 DVR can work with the scrambled stations? Or OK to watch, but not record? And still using that offbeat Sinclair HDR?

 

[primestar31]

And no ATSC 3 DVR can work with the scrambled stations? Or OK to watch, but not record? And still using that offbeat Sinclair HDR?

Not right now it can't. As for the future of 3.0 dvr's, we don't know as of yet. I suspect at a minimum the recordings will be LOCKED to whatever dvr it uses, like Dish Networks are. That also means it won't work out of your house via streaming. Which means SiliconDusts HDHR 4k's will eventually work with their crappy DVR service, BUT, it likely won't work with say Plex or Channels Dvr service.

 

[Timbo303]

Not right now it can't. As for the future of 3.0 dvr's, we don't know as of yet. I suspect at a minimum the recordings will be LOCKED to whatever dvr it uses, like Dish Networks are. That also means it won't work out of your house via streaming. Which means SiliconDusts HDHR 4k's will eventually work with their crappy DVR service, BUT, it likely won't work with say Plex or Channels Dvr service.

That's probably the point with drm. Though out of home streaming restrictions would be pretty crappy to do its literally restricting access to possibly vital news unless you pay for youtube tv if they have it by any chance. There's luckily 2 ways around this I'm willing to try but it's very stupid and probably inconvenient.

1. Whenever an hdmi dongle is able to play astc 3.0 stations it will 100% work on capture cards that strip hdcp. There's no device currently with atsc 3.0 that supports hdmi its all tvs currently which is frustrating. The idea is to use some type of remote pc client to watch the broadcast on the go (not ideal). Or better yet to record via obs software the shows outside of restrictions since it's literally capturing the footage. That's not how those illegal streaming sites get their sources though they use tons of exploits to decrypt their dvr.

2. There's a workaround for hdhomerun app if you use a local VPN you can possibly get it working like that. However the app checks if your on local network you can technically keep the app open after you leave the house.

Though I don't have much need for hdhomerun at this time since I'm mostly watching sports and anime these days. The drm will kill off free tv if they implement restrictions on remote streaming. Restrictions on dvr would make more sense.

 

[primestar31]

There's no device currently with atsc 3.0 that supports hdmi its all tvs currently which is frustrating.

You can buy one right now, though I myself wouldn't buy this one due to cost:

ZapperBox M1 - ATSC 3.0, 4K, HDR, and Dolby® AC-4 Tuner

ZapperBox M1 brings ATSC 3.0 to your TV - 4K resolution, HDR, and Dolby® AC-4 audio.

zapperbox.com

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The Zapper Box will need to be swapped out for a new one once they have the DRM update available. It will not be a software update.

The HD Homerun is supposed to have a software update coming up to handle the DRM.

 

[Corrado]

My personal TV viewing habits in the last 2 years are mostly my local OTA TV since Orby closed down. I personally have no interest of being on the bleeding edge of any new technology in regard to simply turning on a TV and watching the available programming.

Any thoughts about the possible future fees and encryption if that's the model for local TV, will probably fail when streaming is becoming the norm over typical linear programming of the past. I think I have one of the very few visible outdoor TV antennas in my rural area even with 40+ current available channels.

I have used DVRs for years but what's the point of recording something I can easily stream? I guess my TIVO Roamios days are numbered.

 

[Justin Hill]

Any time encryptions are being made, they'll find new ways to decode them...

 

[primestar31]

From the head guy at SiliconDust:

ATSC 3.0 DRM requires internet for anything that isn't a television.
If it is a set-top-box, converter box, DVR, or video gateway (ie anything that isn't a television) it will require internet access to decode protected channels. This is an A3SA requirement.

That's the death of ATSC 3.0, before full roll-out.

 

[navychop]

Nah. Seems likely someone will devise workarounds, spoofing device IDs etc. if there’s a buck to be made…..

 

[Justin Hill]

Nah. Seems likely someone will devise workarounds, spoofing device IDs etc. if there’s a buck to be made…..

They may be the gatekeepers, but someone else will hold the key, even if it means making the device part computer just to access the internet passwords on the device in question (some remotes have miniature keyboards on them), most devices are part computer these days (whether they're smart phones, game consoles, TV sets, etc.)...

 

[mwdxer1]

other than Miami its a specific station (Usually a Hearst owned station). Here is the list (the red ones are scrambled)

RabbitEars.Info

RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.

rabbitears.info

Market 25 (Astoria OR) Ch 28 will not be coming on as a TV signal. They were recently sold to a point to point cel service out of Washington State.

 

[primestar31]

From the head guy at SiliconDust:


That's the death of ATSC 3.0, before full roll-out.

From the head guy at SiliconDust:
quote=nickk post_id=391229 time=1681834201 user_id=2]
BTW - our expectation was the encryption would be used to enable paid channels, similar to what is already supported by DVB in Europe. It was always part of the plan to support DRM for paid channels.

Broadcasters turning on encryption for free-to-air channels was a surprise.

We have provisional approval from A3SA for a DRM approach that meets A3SA objectives while allowing customers to watch/record TV. The implementation is under active development right now - both the A3SA and Silicondust parts of the solution.

If you want to complain suggest focusing on broadcasters encrypting free-to-air content AND the fact that this means that internet is required to watch over-the-air TV. Any set-top-box, converter-box, DVR box, video gateway, etc (anything that is not a television) will not be able to play protected channels without internet. This is not specific to our product but a requirement of how the DRM works for non-televisions.

Even if you have good whole-house internet you still may not be able to watch TV in an emergency if internet drops out.
/quote]

That last sentence he wrote may be the KEY to getting the Feds to force the providers into abandoning DRM. We need to use that sentence in ANY complaint filed with the FCC.

IF you have encrypted 3.0 stations you can no longer receive, I suggest that everyone file a complaint here, under "TV Complaint": https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us

 

[Justin Hill]

From the head guy at SiliconDust:
quote=nickk post_id=391229 time=1681834201 user_id=2]
BTW - our expectation was the encryption would be used to enable paid channels, similar to what is already supported by DVB in Europe. It was always part of the plan to support DRM for paid channels.

Broadcasters turning on encryption for free-to-air channels was a surprise.

We have provisional approval from A3SA for a DRM approach that meets A3SA objectives while allowing customers to watch/record TV. The implementation is under active development right now - both the A3SA and Silicondust parts of the solution.

If you want to complain suggest focusing on broadcasters encrypting free-to-air content AND the fact that this means that internet is required to watch over-the-air TV. Any set-top-box, converter-box, DVR box, video gateway, etc (anything that is not a television) will not be able to play protected channels without internet. This is not specific to our product but a requirement of how the DRM works for non-televisions.

Even if you have good whole-house internet you still may not be able to watch TV in an emergency if internet drops out.
/quote]

That last sentence he wrote may be the KEY to getting the Feds to force the providers into abandoning DRM. We need to use that sentence in ANY complaint filed with the FCC.

IF you have encrypted 3.0 stations you can no longer receive, I suggest that everyone file a complaint here, under "TV Complaint": https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us

Stuff like channel encryption of local news channels is sacrilege to the very essence of free broadcast TV...

 

[Corrado]

Submitted my complaint. I agree everyone should.

 

[Justin Hill]

Here's a Q & A from Chris Busch's blog about ATSC 3.0 that was released this year...the question/answer about subchannels will reassure us that free subchannels (MeTV, H&I, Comet, Circle, Defy TV, Laff, Court TV, etc.) will still be a thing in the coming years: ATSC 3.0 Q & A

 

[navychop]

Very careful choice of words there. But we’ll still see fees for some of ATSC 3.

 

[Justin Hill]

Very careful choice of words there. But we’ll still see fees for some of ATSC 3.

Have you read the blog featured in the link? The person who created it works for the ATSC.
He reassures us that a majority of the content will be free.
I have a feeling that paid content will be offered alongside free content, but it won't completely dominate ATSC 3.0...