At Wit's End

[DS0816]

Hello,

On one thread I wrote the following:

"I'm near Detroit. DirecTV has jobbed out installation to services with limited training. And the installers have tried their best. I've had one or two -- with DirecTV themselves -- tell me DirecTV isn't lately as good with transmission on 5-LNB. Naturally there's no one at DirecTV who'll admit to this.

I do get intermittent picture interruptions. It's not every day. And it's not easily predicted by me. Sometimes I wonder if DirecTV is trying to tweak something -- especially when I'm watching not on a SD receiver but an HD one. I don't know for certain.

I think DirecTV has a definite transmission problem related to newer technology. I hope this latest press release about coming HD channels and the 2007 launches of not one but two satellites spells improvement in programming transmission."


I received responses that point to installation. And I now believe that is specifically the problem. You see, I'm not the only one on this SatelliteGuys forum who has DirecTV HD. Last February, I upgraded from my original March 1998-installed Single LNB to a 5-LNB because of a new HDTV. There have been a few people who have also complained. But I see most, with a setup similar to mine as well, pretty much say that they don't these problems that I do.

On Feb. 7, 2006, the upgrade took place. After installer left, we took notice of problems. Intermittent picture problems. On DirecTV HD and SD channels. Resolutions seemed to happen, at first, but it became apparent HD was a problem. So an installer came out again. And again. Including original date of Feb. 7, there was an installer at my house four times within a month's period. Each time, it was to look at the numbers on signal strength. And half the time, there wasn't much of a problem while the installer was at my house.

I've noticed problems on SD channels pop up in the wee hours of the morning, be it the upper-200s, lower-300s, low-500s. But on HD it's most conspicuous. Following my MLB hometeam Detroit Tigers during 2006, I was jubilant when DirecTV added regional FSN game coverage on ch. 96 last summer. Guess what happened? During many games, the picture would get broken up, a search for a satellite signal would emerge, and then I would have to revert back to watching the Tigers in SD. (Note: I was subscribing to HD programming up till October; after that, I got rid of it and figured I'd settle for the no-extra-charge scant few HD offering of my Detroit locals, HBO HD, and TNT HD is still available to me.)

I could have made calls every month to DirecTV. But you know how it is going thru a phone system; and installers seemed to do what they could during those visits. I had one or two tell me that DirecTV is so new in the HD game, they have a transmission problem that even he, himself, puts up with (don't know why?). I figured it made sense. In December, just days before Christmas, an installer was out, and he observed the H20 receiver was defective. So arrangements were made for a replacement, which did take place, and I have a new H20 receiver.

Throughout all this time, I sit in front of the TV and half-expect picture breakups because I've actually become conditioned to expect this. My fellow resident advises me to dump DirecTV because this individual estimates that DirecTV isn't equipped, at least not yet, in transmission of HD -- and this individual figures we're not the only ones experiencing such a problem, and cannot fathom others putting up with it like we have. (Where could he be wrong? If everyone experiences the problems I have, DirecTV subscribers would be leaving in droves!) I mean, really, to see SD receivers that have, from time to time, go completely black (but with sound), and other times to just reset at inconvenient times (are there any convenient moments of a receiver making a popping sound, picture turning black, and receiver resetting?).

On Sunday, Jan. 21, 2007, during the 5 am/ET hour, I was watching on my HDTV The Suzy Orman Show on Ch. 355 (shown in SD, of course). What happened? More picture breakups, temporary freezing, normal motion, and intermittent troubles. I later flipped, at around 6 am/ET, to HD channels starting with HBO HD on Ch. 70. The picture was on momentarily but doing nothing but breaking up, and going black -- as well showing me a screen telling me about not subscribing to this channel (I'm an HBO sub), and instructing me to call ext. 721 (with info on receiver and card numbers). So I thought to myself, "Time to call DirecTV -- again!"

I called DirecTV. And, calmly, I explained the situation and stated that I am at a point in which I want this ongoing problem -- be it transmission from DirecTV's end…or installation that was never handled just right -- to come to an end. I'm tired of putting up with it all, and I want this upcoming visit to resolve the matter…once and for all.

DirecTV, followed by Tech, and now Rio-3, have each been put on notice by me. Rio-3, which doesn't have its offices open on Sundays but appointments are still made (from a rep in another office; this one is in one of the I-states) have set me up for Monday [Jan. 22, 2007]. And I have been advised to call Rio-3 early-Monday to insist it send its supervisor, its top guy, to come out and correct the problem.

DirecTV is a good company -- a great one, I think! Its programming slate is ahead of cable and rates the number-one reason why I've been subscribing since 1998. Add to that its other qualities. But, make no mistake, DirecTV is responsible for backing up its product. I made that call very calmly, and with respect to DirecTV, followed by its Tech rep, and lastly the Rio-3 representative. Dumping DirecTV is not what I'm really wanting to do; but if there are any more problems after this upcoming visit that relate to "ongoing" issues of the kind I've been experiencing for 11 months -- well, then, my eight- to nine-year relationship with DirecTV as a loyal customer will come to an end.

In numerous threads, over the past several months, I've described my experience. When I had the Single LNB from March 4, 1998-Feb. 6, 2006, there was never any installers coming out to my house (after than the original installation). Ever since Feb. 7, 2006, I've put up with way more than what any ordinary consumer would tolerate. In the meantime, I want to sincerely thank everyone who has ever responded to what I've explained because they've been very thoughtful, well-intentioned, and helpful.

I hope DirecTV doesn't lose me.

 

[NiFi]

DirecTV has jobbed out installation to services with limited training. And the installers have tried their best.

Its very unfortunate the route DTV has decided upon taking with their installation tactics and pricing. They push the sales out and take a "get it in" attitude just caring about making sure everything is activated, not quality.

Do you think DTV would be as patient with you if you "tried your best" to pay the bill each month??
95% of the people you get on the phone from DTV have no clue and sound as if they were just plucked off the street, trust me i activate 3+ systems personally , daily.

What you need is for them to send a totally different installation company out to diagnose your issue, if you cant get that to happen, might not be a bad idea to try and find one from here on the Satellite Guys forums who's local, while that would cost you some $$ out of pocket, would be worth the piece of mind to have it all behind you.

 

[roberttwobears]

I used to install DirecTV and now own an sales and installation company for Dish Network, simply because the technology is more mature. Some of the common problems I've seen associated with the KaKu 5 LNB Dish install are:
Poor Dish alignment - having to bounce off of 5 satellites is tricky, and if the mounting pole isn't perfectly plumb, there may be problems

Inferior wiring - often times technicians will use existing house wiring that can create problems. In a KaKu install RG 6 with a solid copper core is called for, many slightly older houses (build unil as recently as 2004 in my area use RG 6 with a steel core. At high frequencies you can have the signal "skin off" the line entirely and lose a few channels.

Poor connectors/connections - A HUGE percentage of technicians use a knife or box cutter to prepare their lines instead of a properly set up prep tool. This can result in a nicked cable that creates speed bumps for the signal, and the insulation gets messed up to the point where signal can bleed out (and into) of the system.

You mentioned that often when the technician is there, the signal strength seems to be fine (what is fine, I know the H20's come in lower than the standard recievers, but when the tech is only paid 20 bucks to get you up and running, it's not in his interest to find a problem that's going to take him all day to fix. Properly peaked you should at LEAST be in the 70's or higher on most of your tranponders.)

And, yes, DirecTV is new to the HD game and that's why I know sell dish. The HD for DishNetwork only bounces off of three satellites so it's easier to calibrate, and I'll believe DirecTV's 100 truly HD channels when I see it.

Robert Poper
roberttwobears
www.2bearselectronics.com

Hello,

On one thread I wrote the following:

"I'm near Detroit. DirecTV has jobbed out installation to services with limited training. And the installers have tried their best. I've had one or two -- with DirecTV themselves -- tell me DirecTV isn't lately as good with transmission on 5-LNB. Naturally there's no one at DirecTV who'll admit to this.

I do get intermittent picture interruptions. It's not every day. And it's not easily predicted by me. Sometimes I wonder if DirecTV is trying to tweak something -- especially when I'm watching not on a SD receiver but an HD one. I don't know for certain.

I think DirecTV has a definite transmission problem related to newer technology. I hope this latest press release about coming HD channels and the 2007 launches of not one but two satellites spells improvement in programming transmission."


I received responses that point to installation. And I now believe that is specifically the problem. You see, I'm not the only one on this SatelliteGuys forum who has DirecTV HD. Last February, I upgraded from my original March 1998-installed Single LNB to a 5-LNB because of a new HDTV. There have been a few people who have also complained. But I see most, with a setup similar to mine as well, pretty much say that they don't these problems that I do.

On Feb. 7, 2006, the upgrade took place. After installer left, we took notice of problems. Intermittent picture problems. On DirecTV HD and SD channels. Resolutions seemed to happen, at first, but it became apparent HD was a problem. So an installer came out again. And again. Including original date of Feb. 7, there was an installer at my house four times within a month's period. Each time, it was to look at the numbers on signal strength. And half the time, there wasn't much of a problem while the installer was at my house.

I've noticed problems on SD channels pop up in the wee hours of the morning, be it the upper-200s, lower-300s, low-500s. But on HD it's most conspicuous. Following my MLB hometeam Detroit Tigers during 2006, I was jubilant when DirecTV added regional FSN game coverage on ch. 96 last summer. Guess what happened? During many games, the picture would get broken up, a search for a satellite signal would emerge, and then I would have to revert back to watching the Tigers in SD. (Note: I was subscribing to HD programming up till October; after that, I got rid of it and figured I'd settle for the no-extra-charge scant few HD offering of my Detroit locals, HBO HD, and TNT HD is still available to me.)

I could have made calls every month to DirecTV. But you know how it is going thru a phone system; and installers seemed to do what they could during those visits. I had one or two tell me that DirecTV is so new in the HD game, they have a transmission problem that even he, himself, puts up with (don't know why?). I figured it made sense. In December, just days before Christmas, an installer was out, and he observed the H20 receiver was defective. So arrangements were made for a replacement, which did take place, and I have a new H20 receiver.

Throughout all this time, I sit in front of the TV and half-expect picture breakups because I've actually become conditioned to expect this. My fellow resident advises me to dump DirecTV because this individual estimates that DirecTV isn't equipped, at least not yet, in transmission of HD -- and this individual figures we're not the only ones experiencing such a problem, and cannot fathom others putting up with it like we have. (Where could he be wrong? If everyone experiences the problems I have, DirecTV subscribers would be leaving in droves!) I mean, really, to see SD receivers that have, from time to time, go completely black (but with sound), and other times to just reset at inconvenient times (are there any convenient moments of a receiver making a popping sound, picture turning black, and receiver resetting?).

On Sunday, Jan. 21, 2007, during the 5 am/ET hour, I was watching on my HDTV The Suzy Orman Show on Ch. 355 (shown in SD, of course). What happened? More picture breakups, temporary freezing, normal motion, and intermittent troubles. I later flipped, at around 6 am/ET, to HD channels starting with HBO HD on Ch. 70. The picture was on momentarily but doing nothing but breaking up, and going black -- as well showing me a screen telling me about not subscribing to this channel (I'm an HBO sub), and instructing me to call ext. 721 (with info on receiver and card numbers). So I thought to myself, "Time to call DirecTV -- again!"

I called DirecTV. And, calmly, I explained the situation and stated that I am at a point in which I want this ongoing problem -- be it transmission from DirecTV's end…or installation that was never handled just right -- to come to an end. I'm tired of putting up with it all, and I want this upcoming visit to resolve the matter…once and for all.

DirecTV, followed by Tech, and now Rio-3, have each been put on notice by me. Rio-3, which doesn't have its offices open on Sundays but appointments are still made (from a rep in another office; this one is in one of the I-states) have set me up for Monday [Jan. 22, 2007]. And I have been advised to call Rio-3 early-Monday to insist it send its supervisor, its top guy, to come out and correct the problem.

DirecTV is a good company -- a great one, I think! Its programming slate is ahead of cable and rates the number-one reason why I've been subscribing since 1998. Add to that its other qualities. But, make no mistake, DirecTV is responsible for backing up its product. I made that call very calmly, and with respect to DirecTV, followed by its Tech rep, and lastly the Rio-3 representative. Dumping DirecTV is not what I'm really wanting to do; but if there are any more problems after this upcoming visit that relate to "ongoing" issues of the kind I've been experiencing for 11 months -- well, then, my eight- to nine-year relationship with DirecTV as a loyal customer will come to an end.

In numerous threads, over the past several months, I've described my experience. When I had the Single LNB from March 4, 1998-Feb. 6, 2006, there was never any installers coming out to my house (after than the original installation). Ever since Feb. 7, 2006, I've put up with way more than what any ordinary consumer would tolerate. In the meantime, I want to sincerely thank everyone who has ever responded to what I've explained because they've been very thoughtful, well-intentioned, and helpful.

I hope DirecTV doesn't lose me.

 

[DS0816]

I used to install DirecTV and now own an sales and installation company for Dish Network, simply because the technology is more mature. Some of the common problems I've seen associated with the KaKu 5 LNB Dish install are:
Poor Dish alignment - having to bounce off of 5 satellites is tricky, and if the mounting pole isn't perfectly plumb, there may be problems

Inferior wiring - often times technicians will use existing house wiring that can create problems. In a KaKu install RG 6 with a solid copper core is called for, many slightly older houses (build unil as recently as 2004 in my area use RG 6 with a steel core. At high frequencies you can have the signal "skin off" the line entirely and lose a few channels.

Poor connectors/connections - A HUGE percentage of technicians use a knife or box cutter to prepare their lines instead of a properly set up prep tool. This can result in a nicked cable that creates speed bumps for the signal, and the insulation gets messed up to the point where signal can bleed out (and into) of the system.

You mentioned that often when the technician is there, the signal strength seems to be fine (what is fine, I know the H20's come in lower than the standard recievers, but when the tech is only paid 20 bucks to get you up and running, it's not in his interest to find a problem that's going to take him all day to fix. Properly peaked you should at LEAST be in the 70's or higher on most of your tranponders.)

And, yes, DirecTV is new to the HD game and that's why I know sell dish. The HD for DishNetwork only bounces off of three satellites so it's easier to calibrate, and I'll believe DirecTV's 100 truly HD channels when I see it.

Robert Poper
roberttwobears
www.2bearselectronics.com

Thanks, Robert.

This basically tells me that DirecTV has it too good and figures once an installation is complete, that's all that matters.

I believe it's been reported DirecTV will be adding those HD channels around the third quarter of 2007. I don't know if I'll hang on.

Last night, my fellow resident asserted that he believes the tech coming out today is going to do the same old thing: find out the reading on signal strength, the signal strength will be fine, and then leave. That this is a reception problem, considering he believes the install was probably just right to begin with (well, not the first installer, but a second one who corrected initial installers' mistake -- that was, like, February 2006).

Last night, the reception on HD was in good shape -- and that was, naturally, for the playoff between New England Patriots and Indianapolis Colts. Other HD channels at the same time were in good shape. (Weather conditions were good; and right now they're good; and Sunday morning they were good. No rain, no snow getting in the way.)

Getting up this morning [Monday, Jan. 22], problems again with HBO HD, TNT HD, and some SD like Lifetime. Picture breaking up, coming in and going dark. I called Rio-3 to make sure they're sending out their best. Appointment time is between 12 and 4 pm/ET.

The result of today's efforts from the tech performed today will determine whether DirecTV manages to keep me as a customer. I have choices in the Detroit DMA, whether it's remaining with DirecTV, getting Dish Network, or one of the two cable companies, Comcast or WOW! (Wide Open West).

I don't wanna switch because I like the DirecTV lineup; always thought it was a classic system in design; and am completely taken aback by this problem -- DirecTV's problem.

Again, I hope DirecTV doesn't lose me.

 

[DS0816]

Its very unfortunate the route DTV has decided upon taking with their installation tactics and pricing. They push the sales out and take a "get it in" attitude just caring about making sure everything is activated, not quality.

Do you think DTV would be as patient with you if you "tried your best" to pay the bill each month??
95% of the people you get on the phone from DTV have no clue and sound as if they were just plucked off the street, trust me i activate 3+ systems personally , daily.

What you need is for them to send a totally different installation company out to diagnose your issue, if you cant get that to happen, might not be a bad idea to try and find one from here on the Satellite Guys forums who's local, while that would cost you some $$ out of pocket, would be worth the piece of mind to have it all behind you.

I have considered seeking an independent. But I'm reluctant to do it because this is DirecTV's responsibility. I'm letting it all fall on DirecTV's shoulders. I will not pay to fix DirecTV's problem.

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

If you wait for DTV to fix this, I hope you a lot of patience. IMO, you need a good technician to come out and give your system to once over.

Check for faulty connections, pinched cables, alignment, grounding loops, and LOS issues. Then if you still have problems, STRONGLY consider your receiver is defective.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am biased towards local technicians, because I am one, and I operate a web site to help consumers find them.


http://www.dbsinstall.com/

The site is a little weak on the 5-lnb dish and DTV receivers, so any user input regarding how those devices perform would be helpful.

 

[paulman182]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am biased towards local technicians, because I am one, and I operate a web site to help consumers find them.
http://www.dbsinstall.com/

If my local installer followed your cost estimates, my install would have cost around $650. Instead, I had to pay nothing extra.

I know installers are grossly underpaid, but if I had been required to pay that, I wouldn't be a D* customer because I simply couldn't afford it.

 

[NiFi]

I have considered seeking an independent. But I'm reluctant to do it because this is DirecTV's responsibility. I'm letting it all fall on DirecTV's shoulders. I will not pay to fix DirecTV's problem.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Absolutely i agree it is indeed DTV's problem that they "should" rectify, but none the less it is you who ends up suffering with poor reception. I have been in this game alonnnnng time and was simply trying to give you advice on what will save you alot of time and aggravation is all.

 

[Rough2000]

I have considered seeking an independent. But I'm reluctant to do it because this is DirecTV's responsibility. I'm letting it all fall on DirecTV's shoulders. I will not pay to fix DirecTV's problem.

Thank you for the suggestion.

You may want to start writing to D* instead of just talking to their call centers who are (IMO) worthless. I would tell them that you will start paying for service when you start receiving service. I would also suggest copying your local BBB and requesting a response from D*. I don't know why they think they can get paid when they don't deliver a decent level of service. My main problem with D* has been their customer service sucks! I don't blame you for not wanting to pay out of your pocket...D* should pay a qualified local installer if their committment was do the install for a set amount. MHO

 

[DS0816]

UPDATE -- Monday, Jan. 22, 2007 (after 8 pm/ET)

A better technician came out. He diagnosed the problem, saw picture pixellation problem, and has determined that the dish needs to be realigned. He was also vocal in criticizing the quality of the job of installation, pointing out info that is not surprising: half-assed assessments from previous visiting techs, who just look at the signal strength readouts, see that they appear to be "good," and avoid going up on the roof.

Also revealed by this tech, who struck me as far better than previous visitors: Nature of the business, with a local outfit in Detroit area, is to send just about anybody on installation. Then the real pros -- what little of them that exist and work for the company -- are the ones who go back for service calls, to correct installation errors -- and do some initial installations. Unlike prior service call technicians, this guy basically knows he'll have to go up on the roof to realign the dish. It's because of an erratic, sometimes low, reading on signal strength and that the dish is a little bit off. Plus, the tech was questioning whether a neighbor's tree south could be a little in the way. But that will be determined in another visit.

The tech was supposed to come out between 12 and 4 pm/ET, but the wonderful outfit for which he works snowed him with an HD installation during that time -- a 45-minute job that turned into three hours. Plus, the dispatcher in tech never called me to alert me of the delay. So the tech was out to the house at about 6 pm/ET, and it's been determined that we'll have him back -- if we can get him -- to realign that dish.

By the way, I discussed the matter with my fellow resident. He predicts that even after this becomes fixed, there will still be problems. And he advises giving it a little more time -- but that we should go back to cable because he thinks this has been ridiculous, and that DirecTV operated simply when it was on one satellite, but that 5-LNB -- with all those satellites in the sky -- has made it overly complicated.

We'll wait a little bit for better weather, and we'll request the same guy to come back, and go up on the roof to do the realignment. It'll be at a time in which it is light, not dark, outside. More ideal conditions. (Here in southeast Michigan, we've got a couple inches on snow, temps in the 20s, ice forming.)

Today turned out to be part one of solving the problem. But I wouldn't be surprised if I go back to cable. Which is not what I am really wanting to do; but may do so anyway. Today's results alleviated my frustrations in that we got some answers -- realistic ones that, hopefully, are the right solutions -- and it's a matter of time.

Thank you, everyone, for trying to help.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

If my local installer followed your cost estimates, my install would have cost around $650. Instead, I had to pay nothing extra.

If your installer was required to do free pole mounts, free wall fishes, and install free phone lines, AND was being a paid a flat rate, then I hope you tipped him well because he lost money on that deal. If he was paid hourly, then the company paid for it all, and great.
Those prices on the web site are for when an installation exceeds a standard installation. If an installer has to do several walls fishes, then they would usually charge less per wall fish.
DirecTV forces their corporate installers to provide free phone lines and free ground pole mounts. That is why the person who started this thread received a crappy install. That is why DTV has a HUGE shortage of installers. That is why I make good money on service calls when DTV customers have had it with DTV and their installer core. They do have many very good installers, IMO most are not.

 

[NiFi]

DirecTV forces their corporate installers to provide free phone lines and free ground pole mounts. That is why the person who started this thread received a crappy install. That is why DTV has a HUGE shortage of installers. That is why I make good money on service calls when DTV customers have had it with DTV and their installer core. They do have many very good installers, IMO most are not.

AMEN! :up

 

[scotsmanron]

If your installer was required to do free pole mounts, free wall fishes, and install free phone lines, AND was being a paid a flat rate, then I hope you tipped him well because he lost money on that deal. If he was paid hourly, then the company paid for it all, and great.
Those prices on the web site are for when an installation exceeds a standard installation. If an installer has to do several walls fishes, then they would usually charge less per wall fish.
DirecTV forces their corporate installers to provide free phone lines and free ground pole mounts. That is why the person who started this thread received a crappy install. That is why DTV has a HUGE shortage of installers. That is why I make good money on service calls when DTV customers have had it with DTV and their installer core. They do have many very good installers, IMO most are not.

How are you supposed to know if they are being paid a flat rate? I mean the guy doesn't walk in our house and say "I'm only getting paid X dollars to do this".

 

[paulman182]

How are you supposed to know if they are being paid a flat rate? I mean the guy doesn't walk in our house and say "I'm only getting paid X dollars to do this".

This is absolutely correct. I had no idea how much they were paid.

But even at that, I did not ask the installer to do any of this. I told him the dish could be mounted on an outbuilding and did not need a pole mount, but he said he always uses a pole. I told them to forget phone jacks and I would put them in, but he said he gets paid less if he leaves them out. I said to simply run the RG6 along the top of my fence, tying it with wire ties...he said he has to bury it. He did let me dig part of the trench.

There was no wall fishing. I have a large crawlspace under my old house and it was all done from there. My install was great and everything works perfectly.

I have worked at lesser-paying jobs and I sympathize with the installers. But the customer is not responsible for how the installers are paid. I don't blame Todd for what he is doing--he is fortunate if he can get paid these rates for work that some do for free.

 

[wneilson82]

Man, you all have got me worried again.

I am setting up my parents for D* and I must admit that their house will be a pain to install D* at