Appeals Court Finds Echostar in Contempt in TIVO Case
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I am siding with E* on this DVR case but in light of Judge Folsom's injunction and now the Appeals Court ruling, how can E* NOT disable the infringing DVR's? I think TIVO will use the threat of forcing E* to fully comply with the disablement provision to make E* license the VIP DVR's. E* and we the consumer are now officially screwed in this case. Fees for ALL DVR's will go through the roof. The Courts have now given TIVO a license to steal. At least until the PTO officially invalidates the "389" patent. But by then, TIVO will have been given hundreds of millions of dollars for an infringement of an invalid patent.
I guess you guys don't realize that TiVo owns a DVR patent that predates ReplayTV's patents. Or maybe fact don't matter to either of you.
Really? When I was with D* using the HR10-250 (DirecTiVo HD rec'r) the price for DVR service was $5 per household and that later moved to $6. When I switched to E* they were charging $6 per DVR!!! Looks like Charlie has been robbing you for years already!
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Wall Street does not seem too shocked by Dish/Echostar's loss. DISH stock was at $21.26 (+3.25%) as of 9:30 AM CT, and SATS was at $20.45 (+3.07%).
I would say bad reporting and there is a lot of it going on right now.
This lawsuit has never included the new DVR's which use different technology.
A lot of these news reports meake it sound a lot wose then it is.
This lawsuit has never included the new DVR's which use different technology.
A lot of these news reports meake it sound a lot wose then it is.
Older DVR's such as the 50x series, the 721 (which was already shut off) and possibly some other older ones.
I am sure someone has the list.
The current line of DVR's are not included in that list.
It looks like Dish was planning for this given the recent pricing changes. They are essentially charging a $6 DVR service fee plus the price of a DVR is now $3 higher than a non DVR. Interesting how this lines up with the estimated $2-$3 fee TiVo would want from Dish.
Perhaps there will be 0 impact on Dish's bottom line from this, essentially the price increase they took last month is simply going to cover their TiVo costs.
Perhaps there will be 0 impact on Dish's bottom line from this, essentially the price increase they took last month is simply going to cover their TiVo costs.
They wouldn't only on the older receivers.
Although if I were Charlie I would pay the fee on all DVR's so this way I could write software and not worry about stepping on Tivos patents.
The analyst from page 17.
TiVo now has tremendous leverage to negotiate a settlement with Dish, which will likely be even higher than previous proposed licensing fees of up to $2.25 per month per subscriber, according to Moffett. Each $1 per subscriber per month would cut Dish's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization by $96 million per year, he estimated.
If a company is set to start losing $100 million a year. The markets would definitely react to that. Would you keep your money in a company if it's projecting to start cutting its profits?
Signing a license agreement won't sink their ship. The amount they have to pay and/or if TiVo decides to go exclusively with D* would. The price of the stock would drop because the company is not as profitable as it was.
As I mentioned above Dish just took a huge price increase on monthly box fees for DVRs. Interesting how it happens to be right before this ruling. Essentially if they have to hand over the fees to TiVo they come out revenue neutral. If they negotiate better with TiVo they get to pocket extra profit.
To make this shorter...DefDude said:
TiVo wants a licensing agreement for all DISH/SATS DVR's, both the older ones as well as the ViP series. Technically, with the win at the Court of Appeals, if TiVo does nothing, DISH/SATS must shut down DVR functionality to the older DVR's. So of course, they'll approach TiVo for a licensing agreement in order to continue their use.
TiVo would then counter back they want an agreement on all DVR's as DISH/SATS has admitted functionality on the ViP's are the same as that on the receivers found to infringe.
That's why the ViP DVR's would be included in a licensing agreement. Because if they aren't, TiVo simply won't sign a licensing agreement, and about 4 million DVR's will have their functionality terminated.
Ah I see your post now. So, as always, the price is passed along to the customer without any change to the bottom line. The question is once E* gets a viable work around, thus no longer needing the licensing agreement, will they lower the price back?
Older DVR's such as the 50x series, the 721 (which was already shut off) and possibly some other older ones.
I am sure someone has the list.
The current line of DVR's are not included in that list.
Let's not forget the 522 and 625. These probably have one of the larger installed bases.
