Answers to your Hopper Questions

[Scherrman]

It sounds like you joined the program while in progress and it was the same on the Joey as on the Hopper. What happens once they are showing the same picture, if you pause one, what happens on the other?

When you pause on one, the other TV gets paused too. Like I said, it works the same as having two TVs on TV2 of a dual tuner. I'm not sure why everyone thought it was going to be different. I never got the feeling it would and never heard Dish say it would be different. I honestly don't see how it could work the way you are suggesting it should.

 

[dare2be]

I just went in the TV room and tried it. When I rewound the Hopper about 30 seconds and then went to the Joey and switched to the same as the Hopper they were on the same picture that was 30 seconds behind. It makes sense to me.

I just thought of something else...that behavior makes sense in the context of the advertised "pause TV in one room, pick it up where you left off in another". However, as others have suggested, when you resume play in the 2nd room, does the first room's video also start playing, or does it remain paused? Sounds like you would need another person in the other room to test out the trick play functions to see how they affect each TV. If the stream is fully mirrored between both TVs and either person can change what the other is doing/seeing with trick play functions, that would be counter to how I thought it would work.

 

[Scherrman]

When you press play it will start playing on both TVs. I have all the TVs in the same display room so I'm able to test it out. Once again, works the same as TV2 on a dual tuner.

 

[Lt Disher]

When you pause on one, the other TV gets paused too. Like I said, it works the same as having two TVs on TV2 of a dual tuner. I'm not sure why everyone thought it was going to be different. I never got the feeling it would and never heard Dish say it would be different. I honestly don't see how it could work the way you are suggesting it should.

Thanks for checking. I guess it makes sense. I seem to remember from the videos at CES, there was some sort of message that came up about another person joining the tuner with you. Did you see any popup messages when a second person is added? Maybe I didn't get the whole picture from the CES videos.

 

[dare2be]

I honestly don't see how it could work the way you are suggesting it should.

I'll see if I can re-word it to make it clearer.

On a stored DVR recording, 2 TVs can watch it at the same time, independent of each other. TV1 could be half way through watching when TV2 decides to "Play from start." I was thinking that the live buffer could also be treated as a stored DVR recording, because that is what it is...stored on the hard drive for trick play access.

 

[Scherrman]

I'm starting to understand you now. It does not seem to work that way though.

I did notice that when having the Hopper and Joey on the same tuner is that the Joey is slightly behind. Similar to when you have TV1 and TV2 on the same channel. When I paused either one of them there was a little delay on when they eached paused. They seemed to keed a 30 second difference from eachother. The Joey was always about 30 seconds behind.

 

[dare2be]

So, what happens if you press "record" on the Hopper, can the Joey and Hopper independently control the viewing of the program then? Just like the ViPs do now?

 

[Scherrman]

I'll check. I would think that you would have to access the show from the DVR and then you can do what ever you want while the other is recording. Good question.

 

[Scherrman]

Well I messed around with it. I can definately tell it's in BETA mode yet. It's a little glitchy. Anyway, when I started recording on the Hopper and then turn the Joey to the same tuner they had to watch the same thing as always. When I rewound on the Joey it did the same on the Hopper. When I went to the DVR on the Joey and started the recording over it let go of the shared tuner and started watching it leaving the Hopper alone.

One thing I found interesting is when sharing the same tuner all functions are mirrored except for menus. For example, when sharing the same tuner I brought up the guide on the Joey and it did not show up on the Hopper. When I selected a different channel the Joey changed to the different program and the Hopper stayed on it's own program. The Joey ended up switching to it's own tuner again.

I also noticed that when sharing the same tuner, when I changed the channel on the Joey it ended up switch over to it's own tuner and separated from the Hopper. So it seems the they are not exactly mirrored. They are only mirrored while watching the same program on the same tuner and using the trick play functions. As soon as you change the channel on one of them they separate to different tuners.

I'm finding out more and more today. Love doing this stuff.

 

[Hall]

It sounds like "tuners" and "outputs" are being mixed up here. Also, I think most people presumed that the outputs would be independent but that in reality they are not.

 

[Scherrman]

It sounds like "tuners" and "outputs" are being mixed up here. Also, I think most people presumed that the outputs would be independent but that in reality they are not.

Being mixed up how?

 

[Lt Disher]

Well I messed around with it. I can definately tell it's in BETA mode yet. It's a little glitchy. Anyway, when I started recording on the Hopper and then turn the Joey to the same tuner they had to watch the same thing as always. When I rewound on the Joey it did the same on the Hopper. When I went to the DVR on the Joey and started the recording over it grabbed a different tuner and started watching it leaving the Hopper alone.

One thing I found interesting is when sharing the same tuner all functions are mirrored except for menus. For example, when sharing the same tuner I brought up the guide on the Joey and it did not show up on the Hopper. When I selected a different channel the Joey changed to the different program and the Hopper stayed on it's own program. The Joey ended up switching to it's own tuner again.

I also noticed that when sharing the same tuner, when I changed the channel on the Joey it ended up switch over to it's own tuner and separated from the Hopper. So it seems the they are not exactly mirrored. They are only mirrored while watching the same program on the same tuner and using the trick play functions. As soon as you change the channel on one of them they separate to different tuners.

I'm finding out more and more today. Love doing this stuff.

Any description of the glitchiness? If they don't have this part of the software working pretty flawlessly, it does not bode well for the quick implementation of the full integration of two hoppers.

 

[Hall]

Being mixed up how?

With people not understanding why pausing on one TV also pauses it on another. With a shared output, that makes sense, but it wasn't realized they were shared like that.

I'd have to go back, but are you testing on a 1-Hopper/1-Joey setup but have the Joey's feed shared to (2) TVs ?

 

[navychop]

Well, for my wife and I, it really doesn't matter. And in fact, I guess this is not a big factor for others either. If it worked as we thought, people would complain about not pausing in one room, and picking up in the other at that exact spot without having to search. How often are different people watching the same thing in different rooms? My wife and I watch together- or we watch two separate programs.

 

[TheKrell]

I am appalled. Dish has invented a completely different and perverted logic for tuner buffers as opposed to recorded programs. There is no need for this extra programming effort at all, much less to take away obvious capabilities of the hardware.

 

[dare2be]

How often are different people watching the same thing in different rooms? My wife and I watch together- or we watch two separate programs.

There are a couple of shows that both my wife and I watch together. I use the term "together" loosely, as sometimes one of us isn't home when the other starts watching it, but say, if I already started watching it and my wife comes home later, she won't want to watch with me since she missed the beginning, and doesn't want to wait until I'm finished, so she'll go to the other room and watch the same DVR program from the beginning while I continue to watch.

 

[jgATL]

@Scherrman you have really helped me out. I didn't understand that the Joeys are really just a dumb terminal to the Hopper. By stating "joining" I realized that you are mirroring what's on the main TV (like the TV2 output). The hopper in essence "owns" all the content, whether it's live or recorded. The joeys can do four things if I understand you correctly
1. Watch any recording independent of what the main TV is doing or any other joey is doing
2. Watch the same thing the hopper is showing/viewing
3. Watch PTAT (in essence watching what's live from the PTAT tuner)
4. Swap to an open tuner to watch something else

What can't happen (which is why I need two Hoppers) is that in a 1H/3J scenario, one joey HAS to watch the same thing that either the hopper is watching, another joey is watching, or recorded content. You can never have 4 different live channels in that scenario (until OTA comes). We frequently have this scenario at prime-time at my house (where all four TV's are watching something different, but typically all prime time shows).

Can you clarify PTAT in this respect? One of the earlier Q&A's stated that the H/J system can have up to 6 viewing tuners with PTAT. So with PTAT, could the 1H/3J be actually watching 4 different sources (as long as two of the Joeys were watching PTAT?).

Is PTAT treated like a DVR recording in that case (and technically not live)? In my scenario earlier, let's pick tonight at 8pm. Hopper is showing "The Middle", Joey Kitchen is watching "Am Idol", Joey basement is watching "Cold Case" and Joey bedroom is watching One Tree Hill (not PTAT). Will this work or does Joey bedroom have to watch the Hopper, kitchen or basement channels?

Thanks again for your input.

 

[dare2be]

ATL, your question would depend on whether the PTAT "on-demand" recordings are considered "available" while they are recording, or after they are finished recording. Sherrman would love to test that out tonight.

 

[Scherrman]

With people not understanding why pausing on one TV also pauses it on another. With a shared output, that makes sense, but it wasn't realized they were shared like that.

I'd have to go back, but are you testing on a 1-Hopper/1-Joey setup but have the Joey's feed shared to (2) TVs ?

I have a 1 Hopper 1 Joey set up and thats it. Everything I have talked about is only about what the Hopper and Joey are sharing. I'm not talking about sharing any outputs. I'm only talking about how the Joey and Hopper interact with eachother. I'm checking to see what they do when sharing the same tuner.

 

[Scherrman]

I know the difference between tuners and outputs. That said, I hope Sherrman was wrong when he said that the Joey used another tuner to watch a DVR program.



If DVR watching uses up a tuner, then that is a deal breaker. Current dual-tuner dual-mode ViPs can record 2 programs at once, and watch 2 other DVR programs at the same time. DVR watching does not use up a tuner. We've been saying (assuming) all along that a Hopper can use all 3 tuners to record while up to 4 TV outputs can be watching other DVR titles.

It didn't use up a tuner at all. The situation I was talking about was when having the Hopper and Joey on the same tuner watching the same show, I pressed the DVR button on the Joey and it brought it up on screen. It did not bring up the DVR on the Hopper. The Joey basically just separated itself from the Hopper then. I was able to start watching a recorded program on the Joey and it did not interfere with the Hopper at all. There are still 2 available tuners to watch in this instance.