Another reason to dislike Baseball.....spoiled, annoying, pompous athletes.

[Madtown HD Junkie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2781209
Add another player to the list of those who will not or cannot cooperate with former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell's investigation into steroids use.

"The [players'] association told us this is just a witch hunt."
-- Gary Sheffield

Tigers slugger Gary Sheffield told USA Today that he won't cooperate with Major League Baseball's steroids investigation, joining Barry Bonds as players who have said they will not cooperate.

"The [players'] association told us this is just a witch hunt," Sheffield told USA Today. "They don't want us to talk to them. This is all about getting [Bonds].

"If this was legitimate and they did it the right way, it would be different. But this a witch hunt. They're just trying to collect a lot of stuff that doesn't make any sense and throw the [expletive] against the wall."

Bonds' lawyer, Michael Rains, said that his client cannot cooperate as long as he remains the focus of a possible perjury indictment.

Rains told ESPN.com's Mike Fish that he contacted Kevin Ryan, the U.S. attorney in San Francisco, to see if Bonds is still the subject of a federal investigation after former track and field coach Trevor Graham was indicted in the BALCO case.

"I told them that I would like to have Barry give an interview to Mitchell and his people, but I am not going to do it, Mr. Ryan, unless you tell me you're done with it. And if you won't even tell me one way or the other, then you leave me no alternative," Rains told ESPN.com.

Rains said he had hoped the Graham indictment was the last of the BALCO case, but Ryan replied in a letter: "We can't confirm or deny that we are conducting any proceedings related to Mr. Bonds."

Union boss Donald Fehr said Monday that the players' association will offer advice but said it's the choice of each individual whether to cooperate with Mitchell's investigation into steroids use.

"We haven't made any comment about the Mitchell investigation specifically," Fehr said. "What you should expect, however, is that any time any player has an issue with that or something arises, then we will give them whatever our best advice is under the circumstances, and then players make their individual decisions."

Mitchell, hired by commissioner Bud Selig just before the start of the 2006 season, warned team owners in January that a lack of cooperation with his investigation into steroid use will "significantly increase" the chances of government involvement.

Fehr, starting his annual spring training tour by meeting with the Arizona Diamondbacks, said Mitchell's comments were unnecessary and that important individual rights are involved.

"I don't think there's anything productive for us to engage in a war," Fehr said. "We spend a lot of time in this country lately with lawyers trying to get public relations advantage on things. I'm not sure that when you're dealing with rights which may be in some sense fairly technical and legal that you ought to be doing that."

 

[Digital Dude]

Baseball lost me in 1981.

 

[Jimbo]

Do you really think that baseball is the only ones with spoiled, annoying, pompous athletes.

T.O. rings a bell !sadroll :river
There are many others as well

Jimbo

 

[salsadancer7]

Do you really think that baseball is the only ones with spoiled, annoying, pompous athletes.

T.O. rings a bell !sadroll :river
There are many others as well

Jimbo

Damn good post. But this ALL started with the 1st baseball contract....it has gone downhill since. But, they have some power, MLB, because they STILL have convinced the boobs in Washington to keep the exemption.....

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Isn't this steroid thing over yet? Does anyone really care anymore? I sure don't.

 

[Ramy]

Baseball lost me in 1981.

When the Reds got screwed!!!!!!!!!

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Do you really think that baseball is the only ones with spoiled, annoying, pompous athletes.

T.O. rings a bell !sadroll :river
There are many others as well

Jimbo

Oh no...I agree with that....but there are these things too...
Salaries - Teams: 2006
N.Y. Yankees—$198,662,180—$7,095,078 avg player.
All these guys are at a 100,000,00o or less and most significantly less:

Los Angeles Dodgers—99,176,950—3,673,220

Cubs—94,841,167—3,387,185

Houston—92,551,503—3,559,673

Atlanta—92,461,852—3,188,340

San Francisco—90,862,063—3,634,483

St. Louis—88,441,218—3,401,585

Seattle—88,324,500—3,397,096

Philadelphia—88,273,333—3,269,383

Detroit—82,302,069—3,048,225

Baltimore—72,585,713—2,592,347

Toronto—71,915,000—2,663,519

San Diego—69,725,179—2,490,185

Texas—65,468,130—2,111,875

Minnesota—63,810,048—2,454,233

Washington—63,267,500—2,108,917

Oakland—62,322,054—2,492,882

Cincinnati—59,489,015—2,124,608

Arizona—59,221,226—2,277,739

Cleveland—56,795,867—2,271,835

Milwaukee—56,790,000—2,271,600

Kansas City—47,294,000—1,630,828

Pittsburgh—46,867,750—1,673,848

Colorado—41,133,000—1,371,100

Tampa Bay—35,417,967—1,264,927

Florida—14,998,500—576,865


I am suppose to care about a game where the disparity to so great the majority of the teams do not even have a chance? I am suppose to care about a sport where the Players union cares more about money and maintaining their strangled hold on the sport than:
1. Policing drug use
2. Having a viable economic system where teams can ALL
compete.
3. Not letting players reduce their contracts to play with a team they might want to instead of the only team which can afford them.

I should support a sport which discontinues doubleheaders and day playoff baseball.

I could go on, but to continue to state the obvious is fruitless. I take my family, like a good father/husband, to a game a year as Miller park is nice. I get more enjoyment from HS football then Major League Baseball. It seems to me the kids care more.

 

[Digital Dude]

When the Reds got screwed!!!!!!!!!

You're exactly right!

 

[salsadancer7]

Oh no...I agree with that....but there are these things too...
Salaries - Teams: 2006
N.Y. Yankees—$198,662,180—$7,095,078 avg player.
All these guys are at a 100,000,00o or less and most significantly less:

Los Angeles Dodgers—99,176,950—3,673,220

Cubs—94,841,167—3,387,185

Houston—92,551,503—3,559,673

Atlanta—92,461,852—3,188,340

San Francisco—90,862,063—3,634,483

St. Louis—88,441,218—3,401,585

Seattle—88,324,500—3,397,096

Philadelphia—88,273,333—3,269,383

Detroit—82,302,069—3,048,225

Baltimore—72,585,713—2,592,347

Toronto—71,915,000—2,663,519

San Diego—69,725,179—2,490,185

Texas—65,468,130—2,111,875

Minnesota—63,810,048—2,454,233

Washington—63,267,500—2,108,917

Oakland—62,322,054—2,492,882

Cincinnati—59,489,015—2,124,608

Arizona—59,221,226—2,277,739

Cleveland—56,795,867—2,271,835

Milwaukee—56,790,000—2,271,600

Kansas City—47,294,000—1,630,828

Pittsburgh—46,867,750—1,673,848

Colorado—41,133,000—1,371,100

Tampa Bay—35,417,967—1,264,927

Florida—14,998,500—576,865


I am suppose to care about a game where the disparity to so great the majority of the teams do not even have a chance? I am suppose to care about a sport where the Players union cares more about money and maintaining their strangled hold on the sport than:
1. Policing drug use
2. Having a viable economic system where teams can ALL
compete.
3. Not letting players reduce their contracts to play with a team they might want to instead of the only team which can afford them.

I should support a sport which discontinues doubleheaders and day playoff baseball.

I could go on, but to continue to state the obvious is fruitless. I take my family, like a good father/husband, to a game a year as Miller park is nice. I get more enjoyment from HS football then Major League Baseball. It seems to me the kids care more.

Again...ALL if not most is due to TV and their contracts. Prime example is look at the situation with Directv and MLB televising of thie games. MLB has allowed the networks control their schedules, when they play and so on so forth.

 

[Jimbo]

Oh no...I agree with that....but there are these things too...
Salaries - Teams: 2006
N.Y. Yankees—$198,662,180—$7,095,078 avg player.
All these guys are at a 100,000,00o or less and most significantly less:

Los Angeles Dodgers—99,176,950—3,673,220

Cubs—94,841,167—3,387,185

Houston—92,551,503—3,559,673

Atlanta—92,461,852—3,188,340

San Francisco—90,862,063—3,634,483

St. Louis—88,441,218—3,401,585

Seattle—88,324,500—3,397,096

Philadelphia—88,273,333—3,269,383

Detroit—82,302,069—3,048,225

Baltimore—72,585,713—2,592,347

Toronto—71,915,000—2,663,519

San Diego—69,725,179—2,490,185

Texas—65,468,130—2,111,875

Minnesota—63,810,048—2,454,233

Washington—63,267,500—2,108,917

Oakland—62,322,054—2,492,882

Cincinnati—59,489,015—2,124,608

Arizona—59,221,226—2,277,739

Cleveland—56,795,867—2,271,835

Milwaukee—56,790,000—2,271,600

Kansas City—47,294,000—1,630,828

Pittsburgh—46,867,750—1,673,848

Colorado—41,133,000—1,371,100

Tampa Bay—35,417,967—1,264,927

Florida—14,998,500—576,865


I am suppose to care about a game where the disparity to so great the majority of the teams do not even have a chance? I am suppose to care about a sport where the Players union cares more about money and maintaining their strangled hold on the sport than:
1. Policing drug use
2. Having a viable economic system where teams can ALL
compete.
3. Not letting players reduce their contracts to play with a team they might want to instead of the only team which can afford them.

I should support a sport which discontinues doubleheaders and day playoff baseball.

I could go on, but to continue to state the obvious is fruitless. I take my family, like a good father/husband, to a game a year as Miller park is nice. I get more enjoyment from HS football then Major League Baseball. It seems to me the kids care more.

I agree with most of what your saying, but you mentioned that the Yankees are way above the rest of baseball and I agree.
However, until MLB decides to do something about owners spending, like a real cap, not a luxury cap, it will continue to be this way and I cannot blame Mr. Stienbrenner, seeing he is doing nothing wrong, seeing there is no amount that can or acanmot be spent.
I gave my version of a salary cap last year, but no one liked it.

It was something like 125 million tops and 50 million bottom, if you cannot spend 50 million you need to sell, of course there were a lot of other things to consider, but I don't have the list handy.

Jimbo

Jimbo

 

[BlackHitachi]

Oakland—62,322,054—2,492,882


Wow now thats a team! Florida does a very good job also!:up

 

[salsadancer7]

I agree with most of what your saying, but you mentioned that the Yankees are way above the rest of baseball and I agree.
However, until MLB decides to do something about owners spending, like a real cap, not a luxury cap, it will continue to be this way and I cannot blame Mr. Stienbrenner, seeing he is doing nothing wrong, seeing there is no amount that can or acanmot be spent.
I gave my version of a salary cap last year, but no one liked it.

It was something like 125 million tops and 50 million bottom, if you cannot spend 50 million you need to sell, of course there were a lot of other things to consider, but I don't have the list handy.

Jimbo

Jimbo

I think that is an excellent cap....but LAWYERS ALWAYS find way....prime example, David Beckam's 'personal services contract'

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Just all the sweeter when the Yankee's don't win the Series.

 

[Jimbo]

Just all the sweeter when the Yankee's don't win the Series.

Ouch !!!~!

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I agree with most of what your saying, but you mentioned that the Yankees are way above the rest of baseball and I agree.
However, until MLB decides to do something about owners spending, like a real cap, not a luxury cap, it will continue to be this way and I cannot blame Mr. Stienbrenner, seeing he is doing nothing wrong, seeing there is no amount that can or acanmot be spent.
I gave my version of a salary cap last year, but no one liked it.

It was something like 125 million tops and 50 million bottom, if you cannot spend 50 million you need to sell, of course there were a lot of other things to consider, but I don't have the list handy.

Jimbo

Jimbo

I agree with the cap ceiling and basement but maybe they should be tighter....within 20 mil. I think baseball will slowly sink into small into oblivion as a result of this economic climate in which they operate. that, though i rail on baseball, would be too bad.

 

[salsadancer7]

I agree with the cap ceiling and basement but maybe they should be tighter....within 20 mil. I think baseball will slowly sink into small into oblivion as a result of this economic climate in which they operate. that, though i rail on baseball, would be too bad.

YOU, ME and EVERYONE else has been saying that for years....it ain't gonna happen. It's like when I lived in Chicago, they had sh!tty as hell teams....yet the Tribune Company(at the time) was one of the riches groups that owned a major league ball club. So alot of fans wanted to protest by not going to the games....that sure as sh*t didnt work. For EVERY fan that protested by not going to the game, there were 3 or 4 waiting for his or her ticket. And with this pending Directv deal....they won't care if people show up because the REAL money is TV contracts, licensing and skyboxes.
The ONLY thing that I believe that can put them in their place is for the government to TAKE AWAY their exemption.

 

[Jimbo]

I agree with the cap ceiling and basement but maybe they should be tighter....within 20 mil. I think baseball will slowly sink into small into oblivion as a result of this economic climate in which they operate. that, though i rail on baseball, would be too bad.

I think making it within 20 mil. would not work, because depending on which way you go with it. If you bring the figure (top down to say even 100m) I think that is too low for the top payroll teams, that would be asking them to go from 200 to 100m.

If you moved the bottom up to 80 for example, I think that would be too much of a jump for the teams that are currently spending 50 and under.

Of course IF this (125 - 50m) was ever implimented, it would have to happen over say 3-5 years as they could never get to this figure over a one year period.
I still think this cap is a good area, numbers wise that way lower teams don't have to sell tommorow to stay in business.
Maybe the bottom could move from 50 to 70 over the 3-5 years.

More options wanted ....
Of course MLB is not seeing this

Jimbo

 

[salsadancer7]

I think making it within 20 mil. would not work, because depending on which way you go with it. If you bring the figure (top down to say even 100m) I think that is too low for the top payroll teams, that would be asking them to go from 200 to 100m.

If you moved the bottom up to 80 for example, I think that would be too much of a jump for the teams that are currently spending 50 and under.

Of course IF this (125 - 50m) was ever implimented, it would have to happen over say 3-5 years as they could never get to this figure over a one year period.
I still think this cap is a good area, numbers wise that way lower teams don't have to sell tommorow to stay in business.
Maybe the bottom could move from 50 to 70 over the 3-5 years.

More options wanted ....
Of course MLB is not seeing this

Jimbo

They won't see it and I'll tell you why. As long as there are teams...and I hate to say this because I like them...but as long as teams like the Marlins and Twins and A's that can constantly compete with a incredibly low payroll....they can always say..."well look at the Marlins, their payroll was UNDER 30 million and they were in hunt for a playoff spot until the last 2 weeks of the season.....". For every Royals, Pirates and Devil Rays......all they need to justify NOT having a cap is ONE Marlins team...and that is it....

 

[Jimbo]

They won't see it and I'll tell you why. As long as there are teams...and I hate to say this because I like them...but as long as teams like the Marlins and Twins and A's that can constantly compete with a incredibly low payroll....they can always say..."well look at the Marlins, their payroll was UNDER 30 million and they were in hunt for a playoff spot until the last 2 weeks of the season.....". For every Royals, Pirates and Devil Rays......all they need to justify NOT having a cap is ONE Marlins team...and that is it....

We need to get to the next commisonier, and have him put his foot down, and make a statement. The he can say there will be a solid cap, no getting around it.
start at 50m to 125m and eventually move the low end up to 70-75.

NO more luxury tax BS.
Give the teams 2-3 years to reach the 50-125 figure. Make it so a team can resign it's own players to different contract, so they don't risk losing them , like the NHL mistake that was made.

Who do we want for the next Commish.
ALSO and very important, the next Commish's pay will be split between the Owners AND the Player assoc., so the commish will not be slanted to the owners side as drastically as it is now.

Jimbo

Ps. can someone forward this thread to MLB ?

 

[DetFan]

The bottom line is this.

Baseball set it's new rules, and policy 2 years ago.
I see no reason they should cooperate with some washed up has been senator.


They created this problem by looking the other way for 20 year's, and now that they were threatened by congress they are trying to make a big issue out of it.

Attendance is up league wide, do you really think anyone gives a crap about this stuff anymore?
If these idiots want to keep putting stuff in their own bodies and damage their own bodies, then let them. If they want to keep taking crap that shrinks their nads, that is their choice.

I for one will be down at the ballpark at least 27 times this yea, because I enjoy it, if you choose not to watch or pay attention, that is your choice as well.

Trust me it will not go away as long they keep breaking records at the gates..This whole investigation is a damn show for congress, that's all it is.