An Idiot needs some help

[mrdeepseafisher]

Ok guys, a first time poster here, I have been reading for several weeks now and Direct TV hasn't been able to help me. I use Direct TV at the house for a couple of years now and have been happy with it. We spend several months a year on our boat and the family has been asking to get some type of TV on the boat as well. I haven't really wanted to spend the money just for TV but my Dad's neighbor upgraded his system on his boat and gave me a KVH Tracvision HP4 system. It had three boxes with it and a cablemaster multiswitch. one of my family members brought it to me but he had the cable boxes in the back of the vehicle and they got wet. They are trashed and do not power up.

I called Direct TV and they said that we should be able to use the boxes in our house adn just take them to the boat when we go. I have been attempting to bench test them by setting everything up in the driveway and making certain that we can get everything working prior to installing on boat.

Upon powering up the KVH dish it seems to go thru a startup sequence and seems to find the satellite. I have tested rotating the antenna and it will track regardless of angle. I have the install manual for the KVH system and it seems to be straight forward. With everything hooked up the cable box go thru a start up process and then gives me an error 775. I have done research on here giving the the answer to the 775 issue and it appears the the cable box is not communicating to the antenna.

I have spoken to Direct TV letting them know that the KVH system is not High Def and that all my boxes from the house are high def. They have told me it still should work. I feel that it may be an issue with the multi-switch or an incompatibility with the cable boxes and the antenna. My Dad told the system was working so I believe the antenna works OK but haven't tested that out.

So I am at a loss. I have attached a diagram from the KVH manual and the cable boxes in the house are model H25-700. I hooked one of the H25s up to an output port on the CableMaster multi-switch as shown in the attached diagram. I played with it all day yesterday to no avail. Had the multi-meter out testing voltage on the antenna and multi-switch trying to the forum here for advice.

Any help is appreciated and I can provide more pictures/info if needed. Thanks.

 

[Hutch1814]

I'm of little help here but the H25 is SWM only. I'd advice getting just standard receiver and using it. Converting that to SWM sounds kind of a PINA

 

[raoul5788]

to Satelliteguys mrdeepseafisher!

Like Hutch said, the H25s are swm only, so you either have to get boxes that work with a non swm setup or convert what you have to swm. You would need to connect two cables from the KVH to a swm8 multiswitch and power that switch with a 29 volt power inserter.

 

[mrdeepseafisher]

OK guys, thanks for help thus far. One thing, is there any place easy to find a legend for all the acronyms used. I don't have a problem converting to the SWM? if need be. There are 5 TVs on the boat so I would like to be able to use all 5 boxes here at the house and not buy more boxes. According to Direct TV, if I buy more boxes I would end up with 5 more monthly fees for boxes dedicated just ot boat which is why I would like to use the boxes here at the house.

What do I need to do to convert. Again, thanks for the help training a newbie.

 

[Jimbo]

OK guys, thanks for help thus far. One thing, is there any place easy to find a legend for all the acronyms used. I don't have a problem converting to the SWM? if need be. There are 5 TVs on the boat so I would like to be able to use all 5 boxes here at the house and not buy more boxes. According to Direct TV, if I buy more boxes I would end up with 5 more monthly fees for boxes dedicated just ot boat which is why I would like to use the boxes here at the house.

What do I need to do to convert. Again, thanks for the help training a newbie.

Just my opinion, but, I would NOT go the SWM route, not even sure if the KVH can be adapted to work with a SWM.

I would try using any boxes you may have already that are NOT SWM's and see how that set up works.

 

[raoul5788]

Jimbo, if he doesn't go the swm route he would have to get five new boxes since all he has are swm only. That's a big expense, more than getting a swm8 and a PI29.

 

[Jimbo]

Jimbo, if he doesn't go the swm route he would have to get five new boxes since all he has are swm only. That's a big expense, more than getting a swm8 and a PI29.

Gotcha ...

I thought we went thru this KVH and SWM set up a month or so ago with someone else and decided it would be a PITA to do ... (in a Motorhome IIRC).

I'm not so sure the KVH is capable of working with the SWM set up , you would have to add addl. power to an existing dish (KVH) that probably runs off 12v and your talking about adding a 21 or 29v power supply to it.... wondering how long the KVH would last with addl power potentially burning out the unit.

 

[Hutch1814]

Jimbo, if he doesn't go the swm route he would have to get five new boxes since all he has are swm only. That's a big expense, more than getting a swm8 and a PI29.

Not if he adds just a standard receiver but then again he may be in an MPEG4 market

 

[raoul5788]

Not if he adds just a standard receiver but then again he may be in an MPEG4 market

Good point, but he would have to get the extra five boxes. I don't think anywhere in NC is an mpeg4 market.

 

[mrdeepseafisher]

Just a little update and more help needed. I have been working with the KVH company (great technical support) and Direct TV (they suck). I found out that the model KVH dish I have can be convert to work with a SWM. KVH sells a kit for $450.00 to do this. The KVH guy was very helpful and offered to send me the install manual and tech specs so I could order from a local KVH distributor. Got the document and by reading all your helpful comments here figured out that I could buy one off Ebay. Bought one from Ebay for 29.00 with 29V power injector. Made all cables and have been testing it today.

Crap still doesn't work! After talking to Direct TV today, it seems that the customer support person that helped me a few weeks ago saying that my H25-700 boxes would work with a non-HD antenna. Apparently this is not the case. After talking with the KVH person today and on the phone again a few minutes ago with Direct TV person I cannot use the H25 boxes with a non-HD antenna.

The direct TV person said I could order new boxes form them for 69.00 each and I would only be leasing them from Direct TV. I asked what the 69.00 is for and they said the install. I asked could I install myself and they said no. I then asked if I could buy my own boxes and she said I could go to a retailer and buy them to own. Problem is most of the dealers that sell them for boats and RVs are powered by 12V. My old boxes were 120 V as we always have the generator running and the TVs need 120 anyways. The Direct TV person said to buy a M10 box. Checked Ebay and the only M10 box is 12 V.

Do you guys have any place to buy standard boxes (non-HD) that are 120V with the Direct TV card installed? It shouldnt really be this hard to watch TV.

Also, one more question. The SWM has some extra ports and I am wondering if I can connect the Digital TV antenna to one of the ports and get the local TV channels that way so I don't have to run parallel cables throughout the boat.

Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[mrdeepseafisher]

One more thing that may help someone else down the road. In my previous posts there were comments about the 12V versus 21 or 29 V for the KVH antenna. I found out that the 12V going to the KVH antenna is for the power used to rotate and control the antenna position. THis is completely separate from the volts used to power the LNB and receiver part of the dish. The KVH guy gave me very detailed drawings of the unit and this cleared up several things.

I found out I could cut the 12V power and manually position antenna to watch TV (if I had the correct freaking box, ha ha)

Hope this helps someone else.

 

[raoul5788]

First off, we told you that an H25 is a swm only box and won't work in a non swm setup. Second, how are you converting the non swm dish to a swm setup? It shouldn't cost you anywhere near $450.

 

[texasbrit]

First off, we told you that an H25 is a swm only box and won't work in a non swm setup. Second, how are you converting the non swm dish to a swm setup? It shouldn't cost you anywhere near $450.

As I read the post the OP has bought an SWM8 multiswitch and a power inserter so the dish is effectively converted to SWM. The H25 will work fine with this setup, but will only get SD channels (because the dish will only get SD)

 

[raoul5788]

True, but $450 for a swm8 setup is WAY too much. Since it SHOULD work, I was asking how he was converting the sd setup to swm.

 

[BobStokesbary]

I can't find the KVH dome you listed. Is this an "in motion" setup? If not, putting this on a boat would seem like a complete waste of time unless you can anchor the boat in such a way that it cannot move.

Second. Do you have any aspirations for HD tv? If so, there is no dome antenna that gets DirecTV's HD signals (except some very expensive dome [around $5K] made for marine installations). So, if you want HD and want a dome, stop right now with DirecTV and look at the Dish options.

Third. You may have some success with KVH and DirecTV's Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM) that multiplexes all the individual cable feeds onto a single coax cable, but spending all the money it takes to make this work for simple Standard Definition (SD) TV seems like throwing good money after bad.

You seem to be chasing an elusive dream and are getting caught up in trying to make a gifted dome and some very dissimilar (and incompatible) equipment to marry up. The last fellow who tried this on his RV has never posted his results and I strongly suspect that he failed in his efforts to do what you are attempting to do. In my humble opinion, you would be better served to return the dome to your friend and look for a "ground up" solution to putting a satellite dish on your boat.

 

[harshness]

As I read the post the OP has bought an SWM8 multiswitch and a power inserter so the dish is effectively converted to SWM. The H25 will work fine with this setup, but will only get SD channels (because the dish will only get SD)

The documentation I have says that the external SWiM switchgear is not compatible with old school (pre-legacy) DIRECTV technology.

Bear in mind that we're not talking about a Phase III dish with four outputs but a hardware and software simulated Phase III dish with only two outputs.

 

[harshness]

True, but $450 for a swm8 setup is WAY too much. Since it SHOULD work, I was asking how he was converting the sd setup to swm.

You're ignoring the fact that the OP is talking about an in-motion antenna that emulates a Phase III dish and has only two outputs. Conversion to SWiM is absolutely NOT trivial when you're not using a Ka/Ku LNB and surely can't be done with off-the-shelf hardware.

The obvious (and cheapest) answer lies in using anything other than an H25 or a Genie with the existing antenna. This includes DIRECTV receivers from waaaaay back when they were all owned (if the boat is the only place it will be used).

 

[texasbrit]

The documentation I have says that the external SWiM switchgear is not compatible with old school (pre-legacy) DIRECTV technology.

Bear in mind that we're not talking about a Phase III dish with four outputs but a hardware and software simulated Phase III dish with only two outputs.

The SWM8 works fine with two connections to an 18in round dish....

 

[raoul5788]

The SWM8 works fine with two connections to an 18in round dish....

Yes it does. Harsh wouldn't know that since he isn't a Directv sub.

 

[raoul5788]

The documentation I have says that the external SWiM switchgear is not compatible with old school (pre-legacy) DIRECTV technology.

Bear in mind that we're not talking about a Phase III dish with four outputs but a hardware and software simulated Phase III dish with only two outputs.

Your documentation is wrong.