Am I insane? Quality degradation w/ new dish

[busdriver72]

I don't think signal loss is the issue. You're not experiencing the pixelization (dissolving picture followed by acquiring satellite signal error) associated with signal loss. I know you say you have checked the HD setting, but if you would check it again. Dish remote - menu - system setup - HD setup - make sure it is set on 1080.
Then try going into your TV settings and try adjusting some things. The are various picture settings (vivid, movie, game, etc) as well as blackness, sharpness and other settings that may restore it back to how you want it.
Other than that, I'm out of ideas.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Well either call them back out under your warranty or add the insurance . But I would definitely get them back out to re-peak and get a better signal on 61.5.

I know from installing this 1000.4 sat dish that it is kind of tricky to get all 3 in that sweet spot, so you get good maximum signals on all of them at the same time. I had to use the azimuth cam to slightly move the dish, so it got maximum signal. Which meant move it slightly to the left , go into the house and check the strengths on all 3 , move it further to the left , oh! too much. Move it back to the right, repeat the steps etc, etc,etc. It took about an hour to do that one step to get all 3 sats at the best I could get. I knew I had it ,when I got similar strengths on the 61.5 sat, that I had on a stand alone side sat dish for just 61.5. The 72.7 sat was easy since the new sat was launched and up in running. I got 60 - 70 on all those transponders just by aiming and elevation itself. Then it left just 77 sat to peak. That was the trickiest for me to peak. I knew I had it when I got 50 or above on that sat on all transponders.

So all the tech needs to do is re-peak the azimuth cam to get maximum signal on 61.5 . Shouldn't be that hard since you already have 72.7 at 60 and above, and 77 is way high at 62 so any loss on that one sat will improve your 61.5 and as long as it is still in the 50s it will be just fine.

 

[ianai]

Thanks! I'll call the guy and ask him to drop by. I like to let them come back out if they want to rather than calling Dish and getting them in any trouble..of course, if they suck I've got no problems, but this guy was really good in all other aspects of the customer service, installation, etc. A real nice guy. So when I go to explain this, what kind of target range should I be looking for on the 61.5? Do I just ask him to come out and try to get a stronger signal on 61.5? I'll keep your info handy so I can compare before he heads out, and also show him my numbers along with yours when he comes.

@ BusDriver, I appreciate all the input, but it is definitely not an issue with my TV's. They weren't even touched other than to point the dish and I've triple checked every such setting just to be certain on the 722, the 211, the TV's, etc. It isn't a major change such as having the wrong format, or zoom or the like. It's just a difference in the peak quality of my picture. Not as sharp as it was. Guests would almost always comment on the clarity of my picture. Now...probably not so much, I'm just another guy with a bunch of HD channels

I'm pretty dense with regards to the actual workings of the satellite and how it communicates with the box and the dish and the transponders and spotbeams and all that jazz, but I'm an AV / IT geek in all other regards. I know my equipment inside and out in pretty much all other aspects

 

[scoobyxj]

If the tech replaced any fittings in the system that would be the first thing I would check. I'm betting he at least had to run new cable down from the dish to the ground block. Which meen new fittings in the system. If the dielectric is not fully seated, or if it got compromised somehow it could cause the issues you explain. The signal actually rides in the dielectric (the white between the stinger and the shield), and if it gets compromised it can cause unwanted reflections in the signal. If bad enough the receiver will have a hard time dealing with it, and you'll get a crappy picture/pixelating.

 

[Pepper]

The signal actually rides in the dielectric (the white between the stinger and the shield)

say WHAT?

And all electronics is powered by blue smoke. I know this because if you let the blue smoke escape, it quits working.

 

[FED-UP-INSTALLER]

say WHAT?

And all electronics is powered by blue smoke. I know this because if you let the blue smoke escape, it quits working.

Um yeah he's right
signal travels through dialectric
voltage travels on center conductor

 

[MikeD-C05]

Thanks! I'll call the guy and ask him to drop by. I like to let them come back out if they want to rather than calling Dish and getting them in any trouble..of course, if they suck I've got no problems, but this guy was really good in all other aspects of the customer service, installation, etc. A real nice guy. So when I go to explain this, what kind of target range should I be looking for on the 61.5? Do I just ask him to come out and try to get a stronger signal on 61.5? I'll keep your info handy so I can compare before he heads out, and also show him my numbers along with yours when he comes.

Well the only thing I can tell you is that you are already set for 61.5 . It is a manner of adjusting the azimuth cam with a wrench to slightly adjust the dish to either the left or the right , to get the highest possible signal on all 3 sats. There is also the elevation rod that can be adjusted as well to get even a better lock. But I am betting that it is more about the azimuth cam .

On my dish, I aimed for 72.7 like the instructions said to and made sure that I had the right elevation and skew. I then had to adjust the cam a little to the left , and then go in the house to see what signal I was getting on the 77 sat. It was my weakest signal in the 40s. I kept adjusting it ever so slightly , tried both left , right and in the middle and rechecking the strength till I got it between 50 - 58 on the 77s sat. The other two sats were fine as the 72.7 was in the 60s and the 61.5 was between 45 - 70 . The same strength I was getting on my dish 500 with a dish pro lnb for just 61.5. So I knew it was good.

If all else fails , he could just try to peak the elevation for just 61.5 and it might be enough to get good strength on all 3 sats.

 

[MikeD-C05]

As far as strengths on the 61.5 sat, I get the following on my 1000.4 sat dish:

01) 0
02) 59
03) 62
04) 0
05) 68 spotbeam
06) 0
07) 0
08) 56
09) 58 spotbeam
10) 60
11) 57 spotbeam
12) 0
13) 45 spotbeam
14) 70
15) 0
16) 45
17) 0
18) 59
19) 45
20) 46
21) 53
22) 50
23) 50
24) 53
25) 53
26) 0
27) 50
28) 48
29) 60
30) 50
31) 50
32) 45

But remember I am in southeast ,Texas about 90 miles from Houston, in a town called Nederland - zipcode 77627. Your area might be different for these same strengths.

 

[reddice]

I had my Eastern Arc dish installed today and I don't notice no degradation. I notice that SD channels are clearer and HD looks great. I also notice that the sound quality seems to be better on both type of channels. Anyway the installer did a excellent job and my signal strength is good on all three satellites. It must help that I am in the northeast.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I had my Eastern Arc dish installed today and I don't notice no degradation. I notice that SD channels are clearer and HD looks great. I also notice that the sound quality seems to be better on both type of channels. Anyway the installer did a excellent job and my signal strength is good on all three satellites. It must help that I am in the northeast.

You are noticing what I have been seeing since 2008 when I first installed my eastern arc dish. That all SD channels look better than on western arc. Those same sd channels look like crap to me on western arc. I had both set up for a while to compare and definitely look better on eastern arc in mpeg 4.

 

[sca]

in my opinion the western arc channels look much better.
i have done hundreds of installs for both, and the ea dish just has a poorer quality to my eyes.

 

[MikeD-C05]

To each his own opinion.

 

[sam_gordon]

Um yeah he's right
signal travels through dialectric
voltage travels on center conductor

But the dialectric is non conductive. So how does the signal go "through" it? If it WAS conductive, the center conductor and the shield would be touching.

 

[KKlare]

sam_gordon: The signal is "in" the dielectric just like signals propagate through the air with your OTA stations. The core wire and the shield form a microwave cavity and the dielectric is the air. You are confusing DC/low-frequency signals with the MHz/GHz ones.

I'm sure Edison and Bell never understood but Maxwell did.

-Ken

 

[teh_duke]

It's really a difference in MPEG2 vs MPEG4. The compression on the two are different so you might just be seeing compression artifacts that you did not previously. Also, it could be a result of your TV not decrypting the MPEG4 stream as well as the MPEG2.

Doesn't sound like a signal issue at all, just compression artifacts. This is usually seen only in high motion or whole picture shifting (i.e. more than 2/3rds of the frame is new from the last one).

 

[KKlare]

TVs do not decrypt the Dish MPEG streams, the Dish receiver does, at least for component--fancy algorithms for MPEG-4. I could be wrong about HDMI but I think it is basically like the digital version of PrPbY of component but put on pairs in one jacket. TVs decrypt OTA ATSC, only MPEG-2, but you send them Dish's component/HDMI or NTSC from the receiver. Compression artifacts differ with compression method but mostly with signal quality.
-Ken

 

[BuddyBoy]

TVs do not decrypt the Dish MPEG streams, the Dish receiver does, at least for component--fancy algorithms for MPEG-4. I could be wrong about HDMI

You're not wrong.

but I think it is basically like the digital version of PrPbY of component but put on pairs in one jacket. TVs decrypt OTA ATSC, only MPEG-2, but you send them Dish's component/HDMI or NTSC from the receiver. Compression artifacts differ with compression method but mostly with signal quality.
-Ken

The correct term is decode, not decrypt. OTA is not encrypted. Also, most midrange and higher TVs now have Internet connectivity and USB connections for media storage, so they are capable of decoding MPEG-4.2 (DivX/Xvid) and MPEG-4.10 (H.264/AVC) and maybe even VC-1, but none of those would be coming OTA.

 

[KKlare]

You are right--decode--and interesting. Should know better having written encoding and decoding lossless algorithms for waveform data storage--no physicist wants less than the original data but I saved 2 to 5 times the space when big disks were 300MB or less. I've stayed out of encryption.

MPEG is lossy to reduce the size with little visual loss. I think, MPEG-2 is only within the frame, cosine expansion, while MPEG-4 adds frame-to-frame compression as well as line to line and that's why it takes longer to recover after a loss.

-Ken

Aside: I forgot to clear the matrix on son's 622 when dropping 61.5W vs. 129W for a problem. He didn't tell me he was having problems recording and viewing due to 61.5W being tried, a week later. Rebooting is not enough.
-K

 

[BuddyBoy]

MPEG is lossy to reduce the size with little visual loss. I think, MPEG-2 is only within the frame, cosine expansion, while MPEG-4 adds frame-to-frame compression as well as line to line and that's why it takes longer to recover after a loss.

MPEG-2 most definitely has interframe compression, otherwise it would just be like motion JPEG.

MPEG-4 adds things like being able to pick from multiple frames for interframe compression, rather than just the previous one, and more flexible and powerful motion prediction options.

I'm not sure where "line to line" is coming from, maybe you need to review JPEG and MPEG compression. All are based on breaking the image up into little squares and performing a discrete cosine transform on the blocks to get them into the frequency domain so you can start throwing away high frequency information.