All strength no quality.

[Mikey11]

without the proper settings you can aim your dish all day and you will get nothing, even if you ARE aimed correctly!

so the first place to start is to verify that you are setting the LNB type and frequency properly.....next you need to make sure you are selecting an active transponder on the satellite that you are aiming at....

if either one of these are set incorrectly you will never get anything....

 

[clckwrk]

Sorry for the delay my body has decided it would like a nice flu. Although feeling better it's rainy here today and still don't feel strong enough to be on a ladder. But let me tell you all what I've tried since then. I went back out and took a good amount of time to make sure that all the aiming portions of the satellite were as they're supposed to be, and took the meter out again and made sure that I still had the strongest signal possible. Someone mentioned blindscan and I've done a number of those, and nothing ever comes back on the list. Right now I consider that I probably have the dish aligned well enough at this satellite or at some satellite that it should at least give me something. I'd also doubled checked that the mast was plumb a few mornings ago. I've learned that the AZbox not saving the TP entry is because if there is a TP with 3Mhz of the frequency I'm trying to enter it won't enter it. Don't know whether that's a bug or a feature.

Radar mentioned setting the FEC to 3/4 I don't think that I've ever done that, so I'll be sure to incorporate that setting. I think my next step is to shorten the cable run from the previous homeowner that goes into the crawlspace. I'm not sure that he didn't put some splices and MtoM connectors in there to get to the other end of the house. I'm going to try and shorten that up and see what that brings. I have to find a small tv and just get the box and tv as close to the dish as possible.

Some questions that seem simple but I'm so new at this I've no idea. The LNBF is mounted with the cable running out the bottom and the amber plastic (what I assume is polarized filter) pointing toward the dish, however I have the mount fastened down farthest away from the front. Would it make any difference to move this around, is it possible that I don't have the LNBF at the focal point of the dish? There was nothing in the information for the dish or the LNBF that I could see that would tell me properly, but was wondering this while staring at it forlorn a couple days ago.

Blindscan on the receiver just asks for a satellite name and some frequency range to scan. My assumption is that running this will just give me all the TP on that satellite the dish is pointed to. Kind of like an OTA scan to see what channels your antenna can pick up? At this point since blindscan returns nothing, I'm just going to continue to try and isolate variables.

Again I appreciate all the time and knowledge you all are dropping here.

 

[Jim S.]

Could you post a picture of how you have the LNBF holder mounted to the dish arm? Sliding the LNBF forward and backward in the holder may or may not lower your signal enough to lose it, depending on how strong a signal you're aiming at, but if you've somehow got the holder mounted wrong, you might have it pointed at the wrong angle altogether.

I can't find a clear picture of your dish model at the moment, but if it uses one of those LNBF holders where the part that attaches to the dish arm looks like |_| , then it's meant to be slipped over the end of the arm, NOT sitting on top of it.

 

[clckwrk]

Could you post a picture of how you have the LNBF holder mounted to the dish arm? Sliding the LNBF forward and backward in the holder may or may not lower your signal enough to lose it, depending on how strong a signal you're aiming at, but if you've somehow got the holder mounted wrong, you might have it pointed at the wrong angle altogether.

I can't find a clear picture of your dish model at the moment, but if it uses one of those LNBF holders where the part that attaches to the dish arm looks like |_| , then it's meant to be slipped over the end of the arm, NOT sitting on top of it.

Here's a shot from the ground of the LNBF mounted in the arm.

 

[WhyMe1]

Here's a shot from the ground of the LNBF mounted in the arm.

View attachment 75651

Your LNB is pushed to far in. Push it --------> as far as you can

 

[WhyMe1]

Go here and read everything. Make sure you click the links and read:

Satellite Look Angles Satellite Heading Calculator Azimuth Elevation Skew Tilt LNBF Latitude and Longitude values

 

[Jim S.]

Pushing it back is usually a good place to start, but I'm not sure if pushing it forward would cause a complete loss of signal. But I don't have his dish, and I don't live in his area.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Clckwrk,

The FEC of 3/4 is the proper setting FOR 11735 H on 83W, but if it is set to AUTO, that is fine, too.
You can try sliding the LNBF inwards/outwards in the mount to adjust the focal distance, but I generally set it right in the midpoint to get started. It shouldn't be extremely critical and as Jim S. stated, it shouldn't cause a complete loss of signal to have it set all the way in or all the way out. It will help you fine tune it for a better signal quality reading, however.

If you have trouble with AMC 9 @ 83.0°W, recalculate your dish set up for Galaxy 19 @ 97.0W and use TP 12152 H, DVB-S/QPSK SR 20,000. FEC 3/4 (or AUTO). This is the Al Jazeera News TP and it is a strong signal that is always consistent.


Latitude: 35.7537°
Longitude: -79.1458°
Name: 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)
Distance: 37460km
Elevation: 44.4°
Azimuth (true): 208.8°
Azimuth (magn.): 217.5°
LNB Skew [W or CCW viewed from the front of the dish]: 23.1°

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

You could also try for SES 2 (previously AMC 3) @ 87.0°W TP 11960 MHz, Horizontal SR 29,627 FEC 2/3 or AUTO, DVB-S/QPSK



Latitude: 35.7537°
Longitude: -79.1458°
Name: 87W SES-2
Distance: 37234km
Elevation: 47.7°
Azimuth (true): 193.3°
Azimuth (magn.): 201.9°
LNB Skew [W or CCW viewed from the front of the dish]: 10.7°

RADAR

 

[WhyMe1]

Pushing it back is usually a good place to start, but I'm not sure if pushing it forward would cause a complete loss of signal. But I don't have his dish, and I don't live in his area.

I thought he had a screaming signal but no quality, not a complete loss of signal?

 

[AcWxRadar]

I believe Clckwrk stated a signal level of near 60%, but zero quality reading on the AZBox. However, the audible meter indicated a strong signal.

I believe that the signal level of 60% should be higher. I have an extremely LONG cable run (more than 280 feet) and I detect 65% signal level. The longer the run, the less the signal level will be and if you are not aligned directly to a signal, the signal level will also be lower.

The signal level indicates the natural electronic noise generated by the LNBF itself, plus any detected ambient noise, plus any signal from a satellite. Since Clckwrk is detecting some signal level reading (roughly 60%) we know that the LNBF is at least powered up and sending some signal back to the AZBox. If the dish elevation is aligned properly, then as he pans the dish east / west, the signal level should rise as he approaches a satellite signal and fall as he goes past it. Just the same as the audible satellite finder meter would indicate a louder or higher pitch tone.

Right now I am thinking that it is just a matter of getting the alignment set optimally.

RADAR

 

[clckwrk]

Pushing it back is usually a good place to start, but I'm not sure if pushing it forward would cause a complete loss of signal. But I don't have his dish, and I don't live in his area.

Minor change in strength but no change in quality still 0% when I move the lnbf around. Tried full front and middle. I did however notice the amber plastic pane was not entirely flat, it's a tad wavy not sure if that's an issue or not.

Clckwrk,

The FEC of 3/4 is the proper setting FOR 11735 H on 83W, but if it is set to AUTO, that is fine, too.
You can try sliding the LNBF inwards/outwards in the mount to adjust the focal distance, but I generally set it right in the midpoint to get started. It shouldn't be extremely critical and as Jim S. stated, it shouldn't cause a complete loss of signal to have it set all the way in or all the way out. It will help you fine tune it for a better signal quality reading, however.

If you have trouble with AMC 9 @ 83.0°W, recalculate your dish set up for Galaxy 19 @ 97.0W and use TP 12152 H, DVB-S/QPSK SR 20,000. FEC 3/4 (or AUTO). This is the Al Jazeera News TP and it is a strong signal that is always consistent.


Latitude: 35.7537°
Longitude: -79.1458°
Name: 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)
Distance: 37460km
Elevation: 44.4°
Azimuth (true): 208.8°
Azimuth (magn.): 217.5°
LNB Skew [W or CCW viewed from the front of the dish]: 23.1°

RADAR

So, I've repointed the dish here. Still nothing in terms of quality, but the interesting part about this is the strength of the signal compared to the original bird, is about the same and the quality still 0%. Although here, I haven't done the math to see if I'm over the tree line, where as the first bird I know I am.

Setting in the azbox just as a sanity check.
Antenna setup:
Name: 97.0W Galaxy 19 Ku
LNB Freq: Universal
DISEqC: Off
22khz tone: on
0/12v switch: 0v
LNB Power: ON
TP Freq: 11705MHz -- Changed as discussed but from Radar I understand this reset to first in the list is standard behavior for azbox
positioner: off
network search : normal

Sat/TP Edit:

Name: Galaxy 19
TP Freq: 12152MHz -- this doesn't stick either, I'm assuming for the same reasons.
Symbol Rate: 20000KS/s
Polarization: Horizontal
Modulation: DVB-S/QPSK
FEC: AUTO
Pilot: 0

Assuming that this configuration is correct, and that I've at least the dish pointed somewhat correctly that I would at least see some quality. Barring equipment malfunction, for which I would be reticent the only thing left is the cable run. I'm going to look for a short run and see if that straightens things out any.

 

[clckwrk]

I believe Clckwrk stated a signal level of near 60%, but zero quality reading on the AZBox. However, the audible meter indicated a strong signal.

I believe that the signal level of 60% should be higher. I have an extremely LONG cable run (more than 280 feet) and I detect 65% signal level. The longer the run, the less the signal level will be and if you are not aligned directly to a signal, the signal level will also be lower.

*snip**snip*

That's correct, the signal strength in the azbox is at 60% around there for all these satellites and 0% quality always. The obnoxious audio meter I can get going and seems like I would be latching onto something if not the one I'm after.

My run goes from the dish to a ground block, into a crawl space where I've found there are two splices in the line where he's taken two female ends and adapted them together. The run itself is just shy of 40'.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Clckwrk,

That amber plastic lens is just a dust cover and it is transparent to the signal. If it appears warped, it won't affect anything.

Remember when you are checking the signal / quality levels to scroll through the TP list to get back to the TP you want to monitor.
If you have exited the page or menu and come back, the first TP in the list will be the active one. You need to scroll through the list to locate the desired TP in order to make it the active one. Highlight the TP FREQUENCY and use the ? ? buttons on the remote to scroll to the desired TP.

How long of a cable run did you start out with? If you are under 100 feet, you are OK. Are you using RG-6 cable? Make sure that it isn't RG-59 and that you don't have any switches installed (don't think you do, but just wanted to make sure).

You will have to keep in mind that it may take you a while to get the dish aligned. You have to be very patient if this is your first time. Many people make the mistake of trying to swing the dish across the horizon quickly with the hope that they will see a signal "pop" in along the path. That won't work as no receiver can lock onto a signal that fast. You have to start with the best recommended dish alignment angles and then move the dish east/west just a tick, like the second hand on a clock. Then pause and wait for the receiver's tuner to detect a signal, then move another tick and pause again.

Eventually, after you have become successful in aligning your dish for several satellites, you will be able to knock them down in just a few minutes or maybe even seconds. You kinda have to develop the "feel" for it and then it just becomes second nature. I kind of compare it to being able to walk around in your house at night with the lights off. At first you stub your toe, but then you learn fast where that darn table leg is!

When you do finally get a lock on the CORRECT satellite TP signal (your QUALITY meter pops up) then you can stand behind the dish and grasp the outer edges like a steering wheel and VERY gently apply a light force to the dish to pull it up/down/east/west. Watch the QUALITY meter and record which direction you have to go to improve your signal. Then loosen the dish mounting and make that adjustment. Repeat this process until you get he maximum signal QUALITY. Then, you can experiment with the LNBF itself. Move it in/out and rotate it CW/CCW for the most optimum signal QUALITY. You will discover which adjustments make the most dramatic improvements and which make the least. For adjustments that allow a wide range of motion, ensure that you set them to the center of the optimal range.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

That's correct, the signal strength in the azbox is at 60% around there for all these satellites and 0% quality always. The obnoxious audio meter I can get going and seems like I would be latching onto something if not the one I'm after.

My run goes from the dish to a ground block, into a crawl space where I've found there are two splices in the line where he's taken two female ends and adapted them together. The run itself is just shy of 40'.

Clckwrk,

40 feet should be no problem at all. But, I take it that you did not run the cable yourself. This bothers me as we don't know what kind of cable was installed. It could be the wrong cable for this application (RG-59 instead of RG-6 or RG-11). And I certainly don't like the idea of the splices as you described them. That's not good at all. Sounds like the previous installer of this cable had no training in installations. This could very well be the majority of your problem. I'd even have good odds to bet that the cable is RG-59. That will definitely kill your signal quality while still presenting you with signal level.

The signal level is more of a low frequency and DC current reading and the signal quality is the actual satellite signal (high frequency). The low frequency signals and the DC current can pass through the RG-59, but the high frequencies won't. Not over a very long cable anyway. There would be too much attenuation to the signal so that can explain a lot if this turns out to be the case.

If you make a test with a short cable, make sure you use RG-6. Then you may get some positive results. If you do, you know what to do with the original cable run. Replace it all with a solid run of RG-6 cable no splices (except for your grounding block - gotta have that in there).

I was questioning your 60% signal level reading. Like I stated, I have a very long cable run and that reduces my signal level to 65%, but yours shouldn't be lower than mine with only 40 feet. Just guessing, but I think you should be in the 70% minimum to 85% range. I doubt much higher. I'd expect 78% signal level and a noticeable change (up and down) as you panned the dish from satellite to satellite. That's the signal level that I am referring to, not the QUALITY. The quality level should top 80% for sure and probably in the 88% - 96% range when you finally get dialed in to any one of the three TPs that I have been discussing with you here.

RADAR

 

[rogerduncan100]

TP Freq 11750 NOT 11705! Maybe it was just a typo?

 

[clckwrk]

Clckwrk,

40 feet should be no problem at all. But, I take it that you did not run the cable yourself. This bothers me as we don't know what kind of cable was installed. It could be the wrong cable for this application (RG-59 instead of RG-6 or RG-11). And I certainly don't like the idea of the splices as you described them. That's not good at all. Sounds like the previous installer of this cable had no training in installations. This could very well be the majority of your problem. I'd even have good odds to bet that the cable is RG-59. That will definitely kill your signal quality while still presenting you with signal level.

The signal level is more of a low frequency and DC current reading and the signal quality is the actual satellite signal (high frequency). The low frequency signals and the DC current can pass through the RG-59, but the high frequencies won't. Not over a very long cable anyway. There would be too much attenuation to the signal so that can explain a lot if this turns out to be the case.

If you make a test with a short cable, make sure you use RG-6. Then you may get some positive results. If you do, you know what to do with the original cable run. Replace it all with a solid run of RG-6 cable no splices (except for your grounding block - gotta have that in there).

I was questioning your 60% signal level reading. Like I stated, I have a very long cable run and that reduces my signal level to 65%, but yours shouldn't be lower than mine with only 40 feet. Just guessing, but I think you should be in the 70% minimum to 85% range. I doubt much higher. I'd expect 78% signal level and a noticeable change (up and down) as you panned the dish from satellite to satellite. That's the signal level that I am referring to, not the QUALITY. The quality level should top 80% for sure and probably in the 88% - 96% range when you finally get dialed in to any one of the three TPs that I have been discussing with you here.

RADAR

Yeah this is what I was thinking as well. Unfortunately new developments are thus. I took the dish off to make sure the mast was still plumb. It is. I put the dish on and made sure the elevation was around 44.4 on the marks on the mount. Checked the skew to make sure it's correct. I've a 5-6' run of RG-6 used the signal meter to line up the signal, while on the antenna setup screen with galaxy 19 selected and the TP 12152 and other settings discussed. I get it so that no matter what direction (east,west,up,down) I move the dish the signal goes down, then I turn the azbox off and disconnect the meter. Go back into the antenna setup screen setup the options and waited 5 minutes, signal strength 69% quality 0%. I've tried nudging the dish around the smallest amounts in all 4 directions waiting a good minute or two between each nudge.

Nothing. Doing a blind scan right now.

 

[clckwrk]

TP Freq 11750 NOT 11705! Maybe it was just a typo?

Oh how I so dearly wish this was the case at this point. Unfortunately there's just a list in the azbox and I don't enter them, so I must have fat fingered it putting it in here. : /

 

[AcWxRadar]

Clckwrk,

I am posting this before you have had a chance to post your blind scan results, so it may be unwarranted.

Just to try something off the wall. Will you change your LNB FREQUENCY to 10750 MHz (you can leave the 22 KHz TONE set to ON or turn it OFF, doesn't matter) and check your results again? Then, try it again with it the LNB FREQUENCY set to 10.600 MHz and the 22KHz TONE set to ON.

I know it sounds like a strange thing, but humor me with this one. Something isn't right here and I cannot seem to pinpoint it, so we have to try something unorthodox just to test all possibilities.

RADAR

 

[clckwrk]

Clckwrk,

I an posting this before you have had a chance to post your blind scan results, so it may be unwarranted.

Just to try something off the wall. Will you change your LNB FREQUENCY to 10750 MHz (you can leave the 22 KHz TONE set to ON or turn it OFF, doesn't matter) and check your results again? Then, try it again with it the LNB FREQUENCY set to 10.600 MHz and the 22KHz TONE set to ON.

I know it sounds like a strange thing, but humor me with this one. Something isn't right here and I cannot seem to pinpoint it, so we have to try something unorthodox just to test all possibilities.

RADAR

Blind scan resulted in nothing. No found TP no channel listing.

So I'm crystal clear on this. You want me to in the Antenna setup screen set frequency to 10750 and I'll leave tone on as it's always on. (EDIT: I'll have to add 10750 through sat/tp edit as well since it's not in the default list on the box) The go to Sat/TP edit add a TP for 10.600MHz, then go back to antenna setup and select this new TP with the 22KHz tone on.