Darrell,DarrellP said:
Don't make any conclusion based on that mail. It is a canned response. I got exactly the same answer the last time I asked for NBA HD & inHD.
All of you bashers of VOOM's bitrate - checkout this link
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Don't make any conclusion based on that mail. It is a canned response. I got exactly the same answer the last time I asked for NBA HD & inHD.
I think that this crap bitrate that D* started to serve a few days ago nicely coincides with their self-aggrandizing announcement about jillions of new HD channels. Now this announcement looks like damage control PR maneuver. 
I wish there was a good network or channel that wasn't on the Voom exclusives that rated and talked about this stuff. I can see how the bitrate varies for certain channels, and the overall bandwidth gets used up by channels like Rush, Rave, and Discovery that have more detail onscreen at a time than perhaps a darker movie like Underworld or Batman or something.
The problem is the compression algorithm then works overtime with solid subtle colors causing mosquito noise. Also when a movie watching a movie at times it could be only a person's face with a solid boring background that at 14 mbps it would look great, but when the action starts it really should require 17-18... guess what the slow variable bitrate can't catch up now we got pixelation and blurred images.
At least Voom hasn't dipped down into reducing the overall resolution as D* has, that's pretty lame. Still I think we should form a petition for the FCC or FTC to set a standard as to what "High Definition" should be and what is "Enhanced Definition" and what is "Standard Definition" anyone who doesn't conform to this standard can be sued for false advertising.
For Example, the FCC or FTC sets a rule, that HD is X amount of resolution, at minimum of 18mbps and Dolby Digital 5.1 programming for example. If you comply with that then you can say as a provider "I offer 1 HD channel" or as a network you can say "We have 6 HD primetime shows" anyone who wants fuzz up and hand out HD-LIte can say "We have 1 widescreen channel, that plays 6 widescreen movies a day!"
Then whichever provider meets these standards can truly say "We offer 35 HD channels the most anywhere".
The problem is the compression algorithm then works overtime with solid subtle colors causing mosquito noise. Also when a movie watching a movie at times it could be only a person's face with a solid boring background that at 14 mbps it would look great, but when the action starts it really should require 17-18... guess what the slow variable bitrate can't catch up now we got pixelation and blurred images.
At least Voom hasn't dipped down into reducing the overall resolution as D* has, that's pretty lame. Still I think we should form a petition for the FCC or FTC to set a standard as to what "High Definition" should be and what is "Enhanced Definition" and what is "Standard Definition" anyone who doesn't conform to this standard can be sued for false advertising.
For Example, the FCC or FTC sets a rule, that HD is X amount of resolution, at minimum of 18mbps and Dolby Digital 5.1 programming for example. If you comply with that then you can say as a provider "I offer 1 HD channel" or as a network you can say "We have 6 HD primetime shows" anyone who wants fuzz up and hand out HD-LIte can say "We have 1 widescreen channel, that plays 6 widescreen movies a day!"
Then whichever provider meets these standards can truly say "We offer 35 HD channels the most anywhere".
The sad thing is, even 19mpbs isn't enough for 1080i. When CBS showed the Grammy earlier this year, there were pixelation galore due to all the flashing lights.
The fact that we don't see pixelation all the time with 12-16mpbs just means they're filtering the picture and softening it. Unfortunately, "soft picture" is much harder to quantified, as opposed to more concrete artifacts, and this is how cable/sats get away with compression.
Question is, is this a temporary phase we're going through? Will bandwidth increase, and we'll forget all about the bad old days. Or has the golden age already passed, and providers will be pressured to compress as more and more channels become HD.
The fact that we don't see pixelation all the time with 12-16mpbs just means they're filtering the picture and softening it. Unfortunately, "soft picture" is much harder to quantified, as opposed to more concrete artifacts, and this is how cable/sats get away with compression.
Question is, is this a temporary phase we're going through? Will bandwidth increase, and we'll forget all about the bad old days. Or has the golden age already passed, and providers will be pressured to compress as more and more channels become HD.
longhornXP posted the explanation why 3 HD channels per transponder on D*. I found it quite interested what he said.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=190341#post190341
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=190341#post190341
Go give instructions to your dog. Incase you havent read, the latest SEC filing, too many people are "moving on". Unless Voom gains Subs and gains them fast they will be "unsuccessful" Do you have any clue what that means? It means it will be over. The reasons Voom isnt working is:txcruiser said:
1. Until recently, no better picture than anyone else. And this PQ betterment was achieved by default. It needs to improve. Voom needs to offer PQ others cant deliver. And not because of temporary problems others are having.
2. There is no significant market for gallery, moov, auction, euro soccer or 10 channels of old movies. Youd get more purchases of air conditioners in Alaska than subs for these exclusives. It might do well in europe but we are not in europe.They need 1.5 million and have spent nearly a year to get 40,000?
3. The sub base Voom needs, Joe sixpack, shops where? best buy, circuit city, compusa etc. And guess where Voom cant sell their product?
4. Where is Mpeg4? where are the new dishes? where is the new plug in module? october is what, 20 days away?
As for me I will continue to post and continue to be a voom sub until it goes under or D* gets the channels I want at the bandwidth I want.
Im glad someone else realizes this. We buy this equipment to see the pores in peoples skin not to have them look "smooth". Hopefully Dolan realizes now that his "business plan" doesnt work and will start cutting out the garbage and increasing quality. Maybe people that invest all this money in their HDTV's would want a high quality picture and content? what a novel idea?barth2k said:
txcruiser said:
Not if cable has better bitrate, or E* if they figure out what to do with HDTV and/or DarrellP keeps working with their Engineers. Does D* come over to you guys houses and play with your nipples for a few minutes every week or something? My god! :shocked
Well, we don't know what the rate is for VOOM 'cause they won't tell us.
However, I used to be fairly frustrated several months back when many of the HD channels looked soft compared to OTA or even Dish (back then!).
But, I must say, over the last time period, the HD for most of the channels, esp. the movie services have been downright wonderful. I can still compare with other services like cable, Dish, etc. at this point.
In the past, it sometimes compared to DVD, but now ... well, last night we were watching HB-HD, CIN-HD, and even Chapter 2 on one of the first ten movie channels and they all looked great! Wilt said they were always working to tweak the quality.
Seems to me VOOM HD quality is going up while the others are going down. I think I pulling the plug on Dish this week (don't need CBS-HD anymore).
However, I used to be fairly frustrated several months back when many of the HD channels looked soft compared to OTA or even Dish (back then!).
But, I must say, over the last time period, the HD for most of the channels, esp. the movie services have been downright wonderful. I can still compare with other services like cable, Dish, etc. at this point.
In the past, it sometimes compared to DVD, but now ... well, last night we were watching HB-HD, CIN-HD, and even Chapter 2 on one of the first ten movie channels and they all looked great! Wilt said they were always working to tweak the quality.
Seems to me VOOM HD quality is going up while the others are going down. I think I pulling the plug on Dish this week (don't need CBS-HD anymore).
I am not a D* subscriber but I was planning to drop my E* subscription and get D* in November. But this is not acceptable even if D* gives me the HD pack for free. Water down HD is not something that I will desire even if it's only for weekends. That's not reasonable. As others had pointed out Showtime-HD and HBO-HD are not free; those are paid subscriptions channels and they will be affected as well. That's insane if anyone thinks that it is ok to sacrify HD channels for NFL Sunday Ticket. Whomever made this decision, should have his head cut off. They should have looked at what they had and their limitations and provide what they could without sacrificing their current HD line up. Just my opinion. I won't be changing to D* for water down HD progamming. That is a joke!
Don't forget Sean, D* will have more than 150 of those wonderful 6-7Mbps HD channels in 2007. I can't wait! 
vurbano said:
Voom really shouldn't have 1o Cin 10 Ch's. It really is quite simple....they should cut the 10 down to 3. Distribute the bandwidth among the remaining HD Ch's. You could show the same movies on three Ch's as you do on 10. It is just not necessary. Voom has the bandwidth, they just aren't using it properly.
About comment #4.... VOOM has talked about MPEG 4 but does anyone really expect this to happen by October. They should have been installing the new dishes 6 mths ago if it was their plan to switch over. It simply isn't going to happen. I thought it would happen in Jan 2005, but now I'm not to sure. If VOOM doesn't attract more subs it surely is the end of it...I would be sad to see it go. If they dont change their format and increase bandwidth they will fail. We will never get to see MPEG 4 with VOOM. Its simple...40,000 subs isn't nearly enough. They must make moves. They seem like they are standing still to me. Adding Sci F Network does nothing for them. Thgey have to make their HD look ten times better than Directv's and ten times better than anything else out there. The WOW has to be turned up high...get rid of some useless ch's and increase the HD ch's that are worth something. Do it now.
Actually I've grown to find vurbano kind of funny at times, I've seen him defend what is good about Voom and bring to light what is wrong about it many times, I may not agree with it 100% but at least it's not the kind of moaning and groaning I've come to expect of the D* fans that arrive on the V* forum.
I mean on AVSFOrum, there are people who are actually justifying D*'s 3 HDs/TP and are HAPPY about D* adding 2 network feeds (NBCHD) to their bloated lineup already. Retarded if D* feeds HD-Lite to everyone and no one says anything about it, what's that say about HD's future?
I agree that vurbano doesn't always list the positives or constructive things V* could do to fix it (that's why I'm here.. heh), but sometimes there's just nothing else that can be said about a subject..
"V*'s PQ isn't that great"
solution is to improve it.. 'nuff said.
I mean on AVSFOrum, there are people who are actually justifying D*'s 3 HDs/TP and are HAPPY about D* adding 2 network feeds (NBCHD) to their bloated lineup already. Retarded if D* feeds HD-Lite to everyone and no one says anything about it, what's that say about HD's future?
I agree that vurbano doesn't always list the positives or constructive things V* could do to fix it (that's why I'm here.. heh), but sometimes there's just nothing else that can be said about a subject..
"V*'s PQ isn't that great"
solution is to improve it.. 'nuff said.
