Advice for my Antenna Set-Up

[DTJ1987]

Hi Guys.
For now I'm ditching my satellite service and go with OTA. Last week I purchased a DB8 Antenna. I heard lots of great things about this antenna and after doing some indoor testing I believe it. However, I know with this antenna (as is the rule for any other antenna I think) this is definitely going to need to go high when I put it outside. I already have an existing antenna pole (roughly 40 feet) that has a VHF antenna at the top (that has twin lead connections but the leading wire needs to be attached still.) I have a couple of VHF channels that I want to pick up so I want to combine both antennas.

Here is my TV Fools info:
TV Fool

I've looked over the forum and done research but since I'm not really very well versed in the specs of it all I am coming to you all for help.

Basically I want to know what would be the best setup in regards to pre-amps, VHF/UHF combiners, etc. The top of the antenna is over the roof line, and the nearest trees are a block away so it has a decent view.

Since my DB8 isn't outside yet, I tried some indoor tests and during the day can get 15 channels, and last night I was able to receive 29 channels (the two I wanted to receive were the two VHF channels in Indianapolis.) I imagine once my I put my DB8 that I may be able to gain back some of those channels during the day time hours, but am aware there will likely still be a loss of a few channels during the day.)

My other concern is I can't shell out a hundred bucks or two for someone to come up there and install it or to rent a scissor lift (or I would do it myself if I could rent one cheap.) I don't want to climb the antenna tower either. I was wondering if there is anyway to get around this without costing an arm and a leg.

Any help or thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[sergei]

Hi Guys.
For now I'm ditching my satellite service and go with OTA. Last week I purchased a DB8 Antenna. I heard lots of great things about this antenna and after doing some indoor testing I believe it. However, I know with this antenna (as is the rule for any other antenna I think) this is definitely going to need to go high when I put it outside. I already have an existing antenna pole (roughly 40 feet) that has a VHF antenna at the top (that has twin lead connections but the leading wire needs to be attached still.) I have a couple of VHF channels that I want to pick up so I want to combine both antennas.

Here is my TV Fools info:
TV Fool

I've looked over the forum and done research but since I'm not really very well versed in the specs of it all I am coming to you all for help.

Basically I want to know what would be the best setup in regards to pre-amps, VHF/UHF combiners, etc. The top of the antenna is over the roof line, and the nearest trees are a block away so it has a decent view.

Since my DB8 isn't outside yet, I tried some indoor tests and during the day can get 15 channels, and last night I was able to receive 29 channels (the two I wanted to receive were the two VHF channels in Indianapolis.) I imagine once my I put my DB8 that I may be able to gain back some of those channels during the day time hours, but am aware there will likely still be a loss of a few channels during the day.)

My other concern is I can't shell out a hundred bucks or two for someone to come up there and install it or to rent a scissor lift (or I would do it myself if I could rent one cheap.) I don't want to climb the antenna tower either. I was wondering if there is anyway to get around this without costing an arm and a leg.

Any help or thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!

Looking at the map it looks like your east of Eaton and in a good location using the DB8 antenna to pickup Fort Wayne and also Indianapolis. stations.Since Wish (channel 8) tower at least the last time I was by there was still on the east side on Post road.Since there either high-VHF or UHF I'd add a a pre-amp to the antenna, get rid of the VHF antenna and with out doubt you'll need a rotor.
My one question, you say a pole then you mention a tower, so which is it. If it's a tower and unless you've got the correct equipment to climb it then I would say hire someone to install it for you.

 

[DTJ1987]

Looking at the map it looks like your east of Eaton and in a good location using the DB8 antenna to pickup Fort Wayne and also Indianapolis. stations.Since Wish (channel 8) tower at least the last time I was by there was still on the east side on Post road.Since it's there either high-VHF or UHF I'd add a a pre-amp to the antenna and with out doubt you'll need a rotor.

I had considered a rotor (for the DB8 at least.) However in my position, even inside, I'm getting the Indy and Fort Wayne stations without having to change its position. It's catching the signals from both sides it seems, so I figured up on the tower it would be good without in that case, right?

My one question, you say a pole then you mention a tower, so which is it.

Sorry, that's my lazy interchangable terms. It is the tower.

If it's a tower and unless you've got the correct equipment to climb it then I would say hire someone to install it for you.

Yeah likely will. I was even thinking about having our tree people here go up and install it. Apparently they will do it for like $50.00. I'd need an hour of their time to combine the VHF/UHF and to point the DB8 in the right direction. The VHF antenna is pointed toward Indy already.

My concern is the actual combining of the UHF/VHF antennas into one connection. I've heard the Pico Macom UVSJ is really good with this and provides very little signal loss. Is that the general consensus here?

 

[sergei]

I had considered a rotor (for the DB8 at least.) However in my position, even inside, I'm getting the Indy and Fort Wayne stations without having to change its position. It's catching the signals from both sides it seems, so I figured up on the tower it would be good without in that case, right?

With a rotor you'll be able to get the best signal strength otherwise weather conditions might limit the signal you get. Plus it would allow you to try for the Lima Ohio stations. Rotor don't cost that much and if you find out later you need it then it's going to be harder to install it..

I'd need an hour of their time to combine the VHF/UHF and to point the DB8 in the right direction. The VHF antenna is pointed toward Indy already.

Is this a VHF only antenna? If so then you will need to mount it below the DB8.

My concern is the actual combining of the UHF/VHF antennas into one connection. I've heard the Pico Macom UVSJ is really good with this and provides very little signal loss. Is that the general consensus here?[/QUOTE]

Myself I like the Winegard CC-7870, not sure about the other.

 

[boba]

How old is the VHF antenna? You mention twin lead if it is that old (15-20 years) you will probably have corrosion problems and may have to replace the antenna. I have had no problems with UVSJs.

 

[sergei]

I've heard the Pico Macom UVSJ is really good with this and provides very little signal loss

.

The one thing that I don't see in their literature is a way to mount the device to the mast, maybe they have one but not shown.You don't want it flopping around in the wind.

If you decide to keep the other antenna then you'll need to replace the twin lead by using a Balun/matching transformer or just install the balun and hook up to a mast mounted amplifier like
a Channel Master Model 7777 or 7778 which would allow you to join both antennas and also get a low noise preamplifier and only have one cable down, other than maybe also a rotor cable.

 

[Mr Tony]

on the UVSJ there is a hole at the top (for a screw if mounted to say wood). I assume a ziptie would work fine

 

[DTJ1987]

Is this a VHF only antenna? If so then you will need to mount it below the DB8.

Yeah it's a VHF only antenna. With my limitations I don't know if I can get the DB8 above the VHF (the VHF is already up there.) Will there be something wacky with the reception if the DB8 is below the VHF antenna?

 

[sergei]

Yeah it's a VHF only antenna. With my limitations I don't know if I can get the DB8 above the VHF (the VHF is already up there.) Will there be something wacky with the reception if the DB8 is below the VHF antenna?

I remember reading something about stacking the antennas and interference issue but right now I can't find the article that I read. To be honest I'm not sure without finding the article if that would make a different. If you've got a truck with a boom then to me it would be easier to just install a new VHF antenna, mast, rotor and DB8, put everything that you can together on the ground and have him lift it up.
I found another article which highlights the issue with stacking, it's just been a long day.

• The capture area of the lower-band antenna is physically much larger than the capture area of the higher-band antenna.
• To avoid any interaction between antennas, the capture areas should not overlap.
• To avoid interaction with the tower, the top of the tower should be outside the capture area of the lower-band antenna.
• It puts large wind-loads on the mast, which may bend or break where it enters the tower, should have a good mast, not a cheap one.

 

[DRCars]

Antennas tend to rebroadcast the signal from their elements. The distance from the antenna of the effected area is dependent on the wavelengths involved. The UHF (DB8) involves short wavelengths while the VHF antenna will involve much longer wavelengths. The rule of thumb is to put two IDENTICAL antennas no closer than about 1/2 wavelength of the lowest frequency that the antennas are going to receive. Using that rule of thumb and channel 7's wavelength you wouldn't want them closer that about 2.6 ft. apart.

However, since you are dealing with a completely different TV frequency range from the antennas you might get by with putting them even closer if you need to.

DRCars

 

[DTJ1987]

A lot of interesting things that I'm taking into consideration. Thanks guys.

My next question was basically what is the major difference between the antenna mounted Pre-Amps that are usually recommended, and then these things:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-10dB-Video-Signal-Amplifier/11600128

http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-10dB-Video-Signal-Amplifier/14554640

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-Video-Signal-Amplifier/16561353

They claim to be boost the signal for long cable runs for antennas. Is it that these do not have as much DB gain as the fancier antenna mounted kind?

Sorry, a lot of this is a new thing for me, and I just wanted to clear up some things with people a lot more knowledgeable in this than I am.

 

[DRCars]

Those are distribution amplifiers for use after the signal enters the house in order to boost it for distribution around the house or to different devices. The antenna mounted pre-amps that many people use (like the CM 7777), boost the signal before sending it thru the cable to the house in order to eliminate the amplification of noise in the cable. The amplifier is out at the antenna and there is a power pack that powers it from inside the house.

DRCars

 

[DTJ1987]

Good to know. And have to report that for a few minutes yesterday I somehow managed to get the VHF station WTHR, Channel 13 (which actually broadcasts on channel 13 in the DT world.) Haven't gotten Channel 8 though, which I figured those would be long shots since this is a UHF antenna.

Now I know the CM 7777 was mentioned earlier. I'm wondering if that's the one I want to go with. My plan is to have the DB8 mounted about 45 feet in the air, probably around 100 feet of coax-cable at the most will be used, and I plan to distribute it to two sep TVs in the apartment I'm in. I don't want to run into overload issues certainly, so what Pre-Amp do you folks think I should I go with based on this, my TVFool report, and possibly just hooking the DB8 up without combining it? Would an Attenuator ever be a good idea if I got a strong preamp?

Also, it got me thinking. Right now I'm just trying this antenna inside with about a 6 foot cable to the TV and it's doing remarkably facing out the window (I have it holding on to a lamp pole.) Getting stations from Indy/Fort Wayne without having to move it, have even gotten Dayton a few times with three walls between the antenna and the outside facing the Dayton area. So I'm hoping to keep this type of success and undoubtedly do even better outside, but with the longer cable, and even the preamp, is it possible that I might lose some of these stations? Or will that be compensated for the fact that it will be outside without any internal interference and the reception will theoretically be even stronger, if you see what I'm saying?

Thanks guys!

 

[DRCars]

If you are going to have about 100 ft. of coax coming in from the antenna then a pre-amp (CM7777 is a good one) might be a good idea. I would try without one first and if you find you have some weak channels (come in but drop out often) then they might be helped by the pre-amp. However, I would not use one unless I had to.

RF signals degrade when passing thru coax cable and it is the job of the pre-amp to boost the signal so that after they degrade the signal is still above the reception threshold. The higher the frequency the more a signal degrades in coax. If you have high frequency (UHF channels) that are weak you will be benefited more by using a pre-amp than if you have VHF channels that are weak. The higher the frequency the greater the potential benefit.

DRCars

 

[Mr Tony]

Good to know. And have to report that for a few minutes yesterday I somehow managed to get the VHF station WTHR, Channel 13 (which actually broadcasts on channel 13 in the DT world.) Haven't gotten Channel 8 though, which I figured those would be long shots since this is a UHF antenna.

I had the same thing happen when our 2 stations went back to their "analog" spot after the upgrade and I had a UHF only antenna.

11 came in great..92 on the meter
9 was good but can be iffy when bad weather approached

Now that I switched to 2 antennas it they work great

 

[Bob2011]

I would get 100 feet of good cable and test it outside at ground level or on a short pole before spending any money on amps. You might not even need to mount it so high on that tower to get everything you want.