Actuator apparently frozen, help ideas?
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Thanks for the helpful advice Zamar23. I ended up fully disassembling everything (which as Von Wiese says is rather easy for regular maintnance). I am lucky it has almost no rust at all, but I used a steelwool to clean a few places on both tubes. All bolts and nuts were also clean except one a bit rusted at the tip so despite used and old I do not think it was too old after all (or is that good?). It has a boot for the inner tube and also for the motor itself and I guess they did their job protecting it from the weather (and probably not allowing water go inside). I did not get to the gears to confirm but you can tell from its build it is strong and more likely metal gears inside. Yes they are more expensive but IMHO they are worth every penny.
Lots of differences with the low quality, Moteck made, QARL 3636+:
- Gearbox and motor cases are all metal instead of plastic enclosure on the Moteck.
- Wires entrance is weather protected with some kind of adjustable nut instead of a cheap open hole on the Moteck.
- Gears more likely are metal instead of whatever plastic Moteck uses
- Bolts, nuts , and other pieces are either stainless steel or at least do not rust easily
- Both tubes are bronze color at least and they seem to rust just a little (my 16 moth old Moteck is already rusted on both tubes)
Just by looking at the Von Wiese you can see it is far better actuator than the Taiwan made Moteck brand. I was unlucky I bought Moteck "Heavy Duty" version otherwise it would have failed 1 year ago in the winter (I installed in late Nov 2009 when I bought it) so it was still in warranty and the local dealer was still in business.
So there you have it folks, stay away from Moteck and the likes, and advice your local dealers to buy good quality although more expensive actuators in the future. Or if money is an issue like me then just try finding an old American made actuator and rescue it. If not then refrain from FTA and stay with OTA and a rabbit ears but please lets stop buying cheap low quality stuff made in china and the likes otherwise our sons and grandsons will have to buy everything every year because it fails so fast.
Lots of differences with the low quality, Moteck made, QARL 3636+:
- Gearbox and motor cases are all metal instead of plastic enclosure on the Moteck.
- Wires entrance is weather protected with some kind of adjustable nut instead of a cheap open hole on the Moteck.
- Gears more likely are metal instead of whatever plastic Moteck uses
- Bolts, nuts , and other pieces are either stainless steel or at least do not rust easily
- Both tubes are bronze color at least and they seem to rust just a little (my 16 moth old Moteck is already rusted on both tubes)
Just by looking at the Von Wiese you can see it is far better actuator than the Taiwan made Moteck brand. I was unlucky I bought Moteck "Heavy Duty" version otherwise it would have failed 1 year ago in the winter (I installed in late Nov 2009 when I bought it) so it was still in warranty and the local dealer was still in business.
So there you have it folks, stay away from Moteck and the likes, and advice your local dealers to buy good quality although more expensive actuators in the future. Or if money is an issue like me then just try finding an old American made actuator and rescue it. If not then refrain from FTA and stay with OTA and a rabbit ears but please lets stop buying cheap low quality stuff made in china and the likes otherwise our sons and grandsons will have to buy everything every year because it fails so fast.
I just thought I'd mention that both my 18" and 24" Von Weiss acutators have plastic gears. Both still work great after 20+ years.
I doubt that you will receive support from the factory. Moteck (like most international manufacturers) will usually direct product and support inquiries to their reseller network. Did you check with any Moteck reseller for support and parts? I think DMSI imports and not sure if Sadoun imports or is only reseller.
Thanks everyone for their response, I will follow your advices. No Brian, I thought contacting the factory was the way to go in this case. I was expecting at least a reply back.
This is taken from another website:
V76-1,2,3,5,10 Are the Heavy Duty arm that has been around for many years. They have metal back motor covers and have a black acme nut inside tube, held in by two cut away "crimps" in the tube. All have the sensors visible when the motor cover is removed.
This is taken from another website:
V76-1,2,3,5,10 Are the Heavy Duty arm that has been around for many years. They have metal back motor covers and have a black acme nut inside tube, held in by two cut away "crimps" in the tube. All have the sensors visible when the motor cover is removed.
V76-1 was a pot sensor with the worm gear being metal and is part of the motor gearing and can not be changed. No longer made, but parts still available
V76-2 was a pot sensor with a white plastic worm gear that fits on the center shaft. This unit can be converted either to a optic sensor or a reed switch. No longer made, but parts still available
V76-3 is an optic sensor and can be converted to a reed switch. Still produced by special order, and parts are still available.
V76-5 is a reed switch and can be converted to an optic. Still in production
V76-10 is an 18 inch version of the V76-5. Still in Production.
***************************************************************************
It does not say the V76-1 can be converted from potentiometer sensor to Reed Switch so that does not help me since the VBox II is reed based. It also says the worm gear is metal and is part of the motor gearing , I guess that is why it was not that easy to open it and see the gears without fully dismantle it.
Too bad the VBOX can not be operated without pulses at least I would move it manually with the V76-1 until I get the signal. My uncle , the machinist , was telling me that plastic is used mostly in applications were low noise is wanted and reliability is not that critical , he mentioned Teflon as one kind of plastic used in gears and mentioned they are popular. He also mentioned that nor his son neither the nephews had the skills and mechanical knowledge to manufacture back in Havana and also they lack the proper equipment, rather specialized and expensive in this case.
I think the gears broke on this one as a result of ice build up inside (it stopped twice this winter) but in any case 16 months is unaceptable for a heavy duty actuator. It should have some kind of protection to avoid this. Not using a boot for the inner tube may have played a factor. Not aligning the draining holes perfectly vertical for proper drainage may have also contributed. Next time I will make sure I rotate the inner tube a bit somehow so the draining holes are perfectly vertical. I guess I learned the lesson well. Will see what else I can do.
V76-2 was a pot sensor with a white plastic worm gear that fits on the center shaft. This unit can be converted either to a optic sensor or a reed switch. No longer made, but parts still available
V76-3 is an optic sensor and can be converted to a reed switch. Still produced by special order, and parts are still available.
V76-5 is a reed switch and can be converted to an optic. Still in production
V76-10 is an 18 inch version of the V76-5. Still in Production.
***************************************************************************
It does not say the V76-1 can be converted from potentiometer sensor to Reed Switch so that does not help me since the VBox II is reed based. It also says the worm gear is metal and is part of the motor gearing , I guess that is why it was not that easy to open it and see the gears without fully dismantle it.
Too bad the VBOX can not be operated without pulses at least I would move it manually with the V76-1 until I get the signal. My uncle , the machinist , was telling me that plastic is used mostly in applications were low noise is wanted and reliability is not that critical , he mentioned Teflon as one kind of plastic used in gears and mentioned they are popular. He also mentioned that nor his son neither the nephews had the skills and mechanical knowledge to manufacture back in Havana and also they lack the proper equipment, rather specialized and expensive in this case.
I think the gears broke on this one as a result of ice build up inside (it stopped twice this winter) but in any case 16 months is unaceptable for a heavy duty actuator. It should have some kind of protection to avoid this. Not using a boot for the inner tube may have played a factor. Not aligning the draining holes perfectly vertical for proper drainage may have also contributed. Next time I will make sure I rotate the inner tube a bit somehow so the draining holes are perfectly vertical. I guess I learned the lesson well. Will see what else I can do.
Reconditioning An Old Actuator:
Hd fan, there is a great step by step procedure - think it was in the C Band section posted by Gabshere in 2008. Its approx 20 steps with great pictures. I was trying to buy a new Actuator then in 2008 when my 5 wire Actuator that came with my second hand 12 Ft Mesh Dish wouldn't work with my V Box III. The V Box needs a 4 Wire Actuator. Tried to get a new $250.00 Actuator but the Dealer in Winnipeg stopped selling them. I drove around and found a 36 Volt Von Weise unit installed on an inactive dish that had been sitting for years in the front yard of an old house. Knocked on the door and asked the guy if he still was using it. He said its mine if I wanted it. So I went back the next day with my Tools and got it. Took it home and it was really rusty and could hardly move. Took it apart & Cleaned it up re Gadshere's 20 step procedure. Most important part after cleaning and taking it apart is to use some type of grease as FATAir has mentioned to lubricate it - I hand filled it with white Lithium Grease paste that I got at Canadian Tire.
That Actuator has worked well for almost 3 years now even in 30 degrees below zero weather, but its getting rusty again likely from all the rain we had last summer. One thing to mention is if you find an old Dish Mounted Actuator - BE CAREFUL when dismanteling it. When I took off the one I'm now using the whole 6 foot Flat Dish swung around and nearly knocked me off the ladder, so secure the Dish Before taking off the Actuator or get someone to help. Bottom line saved myself over $250.00 and got the satisfaction of fixing and reconditioning an old Actuator and getting it to work again! Hope this helps.
Hd fan, there is a great step by step procedure - think it was in the C Band section posted by Gabshere in 2008. Its approx 20 steps with great pictures. I was trying to buy a new Actuator then in 2008 when my 5 wire Actuator that came with my second hand 12 Ft Mesh Dish wouldn't work with my V Box III. The V Box needs a 4 Wire Actuator. Tried to get a new $250.00 Actuator but the Dealer in Winnipeg stopped selling them. I drove around and found a 36 Volt Von Weise unit installed on an inactive dish that had been sitting for years in the front yard of an old house. Knocked on the door and asked the guy if he still was using it. He said its mine if I wanted it. So I went back the next day with my Tools and got it. Took it home and it was really rusty and could hardly move. Took it apart & Cleaned it up re Gadshere's 20 step procedure. Most important part after cleaning and taking it apart is to use some type of grease as FATAir has mentioned to lubricate it - I hand filled it with white Lithium Grease paste that I got at Canadian Tire.
That Actuator has worked well for almost 3 years now even in 30 degrees below zero weather, but its getting rusty again likely from all the rain we had last summer. One thing to mention is if you find an old Dish Mounted Actuator - BE CAREFUL when dismanteling it. When I took off the one I'm now using the whole 6 foot Flat Dish swung around and nearly knocked me off the ladder, so secure the Dish Before taking off the Actuator or get someone to help. Bottom line saved myself over $250.00 and got the satisfaction of fixing and reconditioning an old Actuator and getting it to work again! Hope this helps.
I guess, you mean this thread. Attached is also a useful patent with Actuator schematics I found in C-band section.
Why don't indeed try to contact DMSI - they're usually quite responsive, but might not offer separate Moteck gears. In my experience, getting in touch with CN factories isn't that difficult. Taiwan factories are usually less responsive.
Why don't indeed try to contact DMSI - they're usually quite responsive, but might not offer separate Moteck gears. In my experience, getting in touch with CN factories isn't that difficult. Taiwan factories are usually less responsive.
Thanks guys for the links and advice. After reading and looking at the pictures I think I can convert this V76-1 into a reed switch system without too much effort and expense. It seems to me that they share the same base (the 76-1, 76-5 and 76-10 that is) and mine even has the small screw to hold the reed switch and the 5 position connection board (black with 2 lines of small screws). All I have to do is secure the magnet wheel from the moteck (it uses a small screw) to the von weise somehow. Maybe silicone is enough?.
Well its been over 3 months and not even the local canadian satellite dealer was successfull in contacting the factory Moteck for replacement gears. Well ... they replied once but just to say the guy in charge was on vacation, sounded like Cuba to me, lol. I will try now to adapt some sort of reed sensor system on the V76-1 (it uses a potentiometer I think, not reed sensor) Von Weisse and see if it works.
Finally! , back on, tracking again!. Basically I removed the Reed Switch System that the broken Moteck Arm had (magnet wheel and sensor) and re-adapt it inside the V76-1 and it works like a charm!. I get the same 8 pulses per degree count I was getting before. I still have to re-aling again because Ku is off.
Only thing is, I planned to change them almost on the same position expecting I would end up with fairly close numbers for the already saved positions so I would only need to do a positions shift with the Vbox II but for some reason the positions are way too off and the dish wants to drive beyond the far mechanical east limit I set so I still have to think how to find a workaround or fix it rather easy inestead of re-setting all positions again. Also the latest firmware I have (5020 was always fine) 53XX keeps telling the VBOX to go to P0X everytime I select port X on the diseqC switch, it even goes to position P03 for the fixed 30W dish on port 3 that has the motor setting OFF.
No more MOTECK anything for me or anyone I know from now on , even if it is free , no way!.
Only thing is, I planned to change them almost on the same position expecting I would end up with fairly close numbers for the already saved positions so I would only need to do a positions shift with the Vbox II but for some reason the positions are way too off and the dish wants to drive beyond the far mechanical east limit I set so I still have to think how to find a workaround or fix it rather easy inestead of re-setting all positions again. Also the latest firmware I have (5020 was always fine) 53XX keeps telling the VBOX to go to P0X everytime I select port X on the diseqC switch, it even goes to position P03 for the fixed 30W dish on port 3 that has the motor setting OFF.
No more MOTECK anything for me or anyone I know from now on , even if it is free , no way!.
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