Since yesterday the actuator is acting like it is frozen again (did it twice this winter for 1 day) but before it fixed itself in 24 hours. Since yesterday when it started temps are not bad around -5 celcius but -15 to -10 windchill despite it is sunny (but dish shades it). Will a heat gun be the recommended approach or should I juts wait a few days untill its warmer and just watch OTA?. What do you think guys (hmm , he who claims does not trust anyone is asking for help, you have to be kidding me? , lol)
Actuator apparently frozen, help ideas?
- Thread starter hd fan
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Could try heat, at least that will tell you if it's water causing the problem. If the heat doesn't work, then it's something else. Either way, something to check out when the weather cooperates. (The new heat tapes can be cut to length, wrapped over itself with no risk of fire or burn-out)
Thanks Fat Air. I remember I had a very cheap OTA antenna that had a rotor/amp built in and one day it stopped moving , when I opened it it had a big block of ice inside blocking the moving parts!. I could not beleive it!. Now , will this water come from moisture in the air or is it actually water getting in between the inner arm and the outer one? (mine has a rubber thing at the top) It also has a small hole at the base (close to the motor casing) that unfortunaelly it is not completely vertical (although pretty close) so I guess it does not serve its pourpose of draining the water out eh?. I could not find a way to install the arm with this hole facing the ground without disassembling it or at least rotating its inner tube.
HD FAN,
Once in a while I have to take my Wild Blue satellite TRIA off the dish, partially disassemble it and I pop it in the oven on the lowest heat setting and bake it for several hours. Then reaply some sealing grease (or vaseline) to the rubber seals and reassemble it and put it back on the dish. There are no moving parts in the TRIA and I can never detect the moisture by simple visual examination, but evidentally enough moisture is weeping into the chamber due to outdoor temperature and humidity fluctuations and that messes it up.
Maybe you could apply the same strategy to your actuator?
RADAR
Once in a while I have to take my Wild Blue satellite TRIA off the dish, partially disassemble it and I pop it in the oven on the lowest heat setting and bake it for several hours. Then reaply some sealing grease (or vaseline) to the rubber seals and reassemble it and put it back on the dish. There are no moving parts in the TRIA and I can never detect the moisture by simple visual examination, but evidentally enough moisture is weeping into the chamber due to outdoor temperature and humidity fluctuations and that messes it up.
Maybe you could apply the same strategy to your actuator?
RADAR
Thanks Radar, I will either try the heat gun/hair dryer (dont want to disassemble too much the arm) or wait till monday when the temps will go above 0. Will watch Sabado Gigante over at a friends house so I guess we will end up killing 2 birds with only 1 shot, not that we need an excuse to visit friends (technically not even to call in advance, lol) but one can always turn a potential defeat into a success I guess or ...... like I say, die while trying, lol.
I'd opt to use the hair dryer. A true heat gun might be a little too HOT. It'll take longer with the hair dryer, but I think it will be safer overall and more effective.
RADAR
I had an empty 55 gallon drum half fill with condensation water over a 2 year period, it was in a shed so no water ever got on top of it. It was plugged, also. So, over time I believe an actuator could get a lot of water in it, especially if the temps hovered right near freezing so it never evaporated the water out. Even a torch should not be too hot if you keep it moving so it only gets the pipe WARM to touch.
Thanks rv1pop, that explains it so it will likely happen again if water does not drain out. I guess the question is , Did you guys installed the arm so the drain hole is exactly facing the ground? I thought of that when I first installed it but could not figure out a way to rotate the inner tube nor the whole arm. IMO the arm out of the factory should have come with that hole perpendicular to the plane of the ring where the bolt attaches the dish) so it drains water. Now the motor plastic case is kind of skew a bit. Or should I drill a small hole at the bottom of the arm facing the ground?
I read some reports that there were NO grease in brand new actuators added on parts and gears, especially in a friction zone where they interact. Check first, if it turns & moves without load. The drain hole facing at a small angle to vertical is not a big deal, keep in mind the hole may be blocked by ice anyway while facing down. Properly greased parts should repel water from contact zone.
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Thanks but you say, "check if it turns and moves without load" . I was under the impression that one should avoid powering it without load due to it will turn instead of normally extending/retracting or, if powered without load, one should avoid it turning. Am I right or wrong?
No grease on moving parts could be the culprit as well since this one is less than 2 years old probably. What kind of grease should I use and were to buy it? Pretty much like salt we only had 2 kinds of grease back in cuba, fine(fina) or gross/fat (gruesa), and thats it, if by any chance we had grease or salt, lol.
BTW , good to have you back, its been a long time since I saw any new post from you and some others, I even thought you were more likely banned.
No grease on moving parts could be the culprit as well since this one is less than 2 years old probably. What kind of grease should I use and were to buy it? Pretty much like salt we only had 2 kinds of grease back in cuba, fine(fina) or gross/fat (gruesa), and thats it, if by any chance we had grease or salt, lol.
BTW , good to have you back, its been a long time since I saw any new post from you and some others, I even thought you were more likely banned.
Since day one, way BITD, the only grease I've used is a light lithium. Doesn't get too "hard" in the cold. And don't use too much as it could plug the drain hole, and there ya go, no drainage. I use "GM" aerosol can lithium grease, Also on the tube to help the seal at the end of the arm. It's what the GM dealers use to lubricate latches and hinges. (That off white stuff) Wipe off excess after a few in/out operations to lube the seal, so as to not attract and hold dust/dirt. I'm sure there's another brand available at auto/hardware stores.
If the arm spins, I've just turned it pack the same # by hand. Won't damage anything, if it spins, just changes the limits switch settings.(AFAIK or seen)
If the arm spins, I've just turned it pack the same # by hand. Won't damage anything, if it spins, just changes the limits switch settings.(AFAIK or seen)
Thanks!
Just had less time lately... but now want to build some new and exciting project, so it raised the interest to sat topic again. I remember we spoke of some different views times ago, but its normal IMHO, otherwise I would rather move to Cuba...
Speaking of Linear Dish Actuator, it has extendable arm, gearbox, and electric motor. One can see right away, there is plenty of friction involved that needs some grease for smooth operation, especially when clearances get smaller at cold temp. Bad news is, some guys reported NO GREASE found in proper places in some new units, when they are open for inspection. If you're not afraid to look inside and facing problems described, it may be a good idea.
BTW it was the plastic gears!!!. I did not even imagined the gears were cheap plastic, 3 wheels have at least 1 tooth damaged (no idea whether this are the proper names for this) no wonder it was only moving a bit. I had to disassembled everything expecting to see ice (some water did drip out) but all I found was a white thin layer of who knows what (probably mold) inside where the connections are made and then when I opened it even more then I saw like 15 little pieces of plastic lying around and stuck to the grease. BTW I was expecting more amount of grease but heck if the gears are cheap plastic I guess I was lucky it has some grease!. Thanks everyone for the help and comments.
Now I guess I either buy this wheels somewhere (no idea where) metal ones preferably or replace the whole arm with a free or cheap one from someone getting rid of its C band dish. Do you guys think these "wheeles" are kind of standard and could be sold somewhere?.
The actuator is only 16 month old, a 36" Moteck SuperPower Jack QARL and they even call it heavy duty!!!!!!!!!. No wonder I do not trust this mother of you know who!, lol. And to think the Dish is only 6 feet therefore not that heavy , mostly protected from the wind and not too much snow this years and still 16 months later the plastic cheap gears brake. Heck , even the Logiteck Force Pro Steering Wheel for the PS3 had metal gears!!! and its a freaking toy!. Heavy Duty my ass!!!!, lol.
Well, time to watch Cubavision and forget about this and move on to OTA maybe I guess. I miss my House shows anyways so.
Now I guess I either buy this wheels somewhere (no idea where) metal ones preferably or replace the whole arm with a free or cheap one from someone getting rid of its C band dish. Do you guys think these "wheeles" are kind of standard and could be sold somewhere?.
The actuator is only 16 month old, a 36" Moteck SuperPower Jack QARL and they even call it heavy duty!!!!!!!!!. No wonder I do not trust this mother of you know who!, lol. And to think the Dish is only 6 feet therefore not that heavy , mostly protected from the wind and not too much snow this years and still 16 months later the plastic cheap gears brake. Heck , even the Logiteck Force Pro Steering Wheel for the PS3 had metal gears!!! and its a freaking toy!. Heavy Duty my ass!!!!, lol.
Well, time to watch Cubavision and forget about this and move on to OTA maybe I guess. I miss my House shows anyways so.
I don't know, if the dealer you bought it from or any dealer selling them now can help order spare parts or do repairs (basically you just need gears), or may be you can find an independent repair shop. Another idea is to make some pictures and e-mail them to Moteck's Service Manager. They might want to soften your experience with their product. Can you easily turn your dish by hand - what was the cause of cyclic overloads? I say "cyclic", since a one time overload would result in motor being stopped, unless its protection circuit is gone.
Can you easily turn your dish by hand - what was the cause of cyclic overloads? I say "cyclic", since a one time overload would result in motor being stopped, unless its protection circuit is gone.
I never trust those plastic gears. All plastic degrades eventually and becomes brittle, but at 16 months? That is NOT acceptable. 5 years in a high temp environment or 7 years, 10 years? Eh, ok. But, 16 months... No!
If you can get metal gears (preferrably bronze as you you can get oil impregnated bronze - sort of self lubricating and that will add to the smoothness of the actuator travel) that would be my wish. If you know anyone that is a good machinist, you can have them replicate your plastic gears out of bronze. Or just ordinary steel if you grease it up well. That Lithium grease (white lithium aerosol grease) similar to what Fat Air mentioned is really good. I use it often, too. Works great for garage door tracks!
One thing that a person should be aware of... Plastics and grease are primarily manufactured from natural oil so they have the same base. However, the manufacturing process involves different chemical reactions (or cracking processes) to alter the molecules. If you mix the wrong greases together or a certain grease with a specific plastic, one may degrade the other. It may soften it and make it sticky or make it highly brittle. i.e. Armor All on your dashboard is good for the plastic there and replenishes it, but other VOCs may dry it out and make it dry and brittle or it may soften it enough to make it sticky and allow you to push your finger into it.
I thought I would mention this as many people are not aware of this information. You should use the grease or oil that is recommended by the manufacturer for whatever application you have at hand. Don't use just any lubrication method, just because it is available to you. Extreme troubles like I cite are quite rare, but they do exist.
RADAR
If you can get metal gears (preferrably bronze as you you can get oil impregnated bronze - sort of self lubricating and that will add to the smoothness of the actuator travel) that would be my wish. If you know anyone that is a good machinist, you can have them replicate your plastic gears out of bronze. Or just ordinary steel if you grease it up well. That Lithium grease (white lithium aerosol grease) similar to what Fat Air mentioned is really good. I use it often, too. Works great for garage door tracks!
One thing that a person should be aware of... Plastics and grease are primarily manufactured from natural oil so they have the same base. However, the manufacturing process involves different chemical reactions (or cracking processes) to alter the molecules. If you mix the wrong greases together or a certain grease with a specific plastic, one may degrade the other. It may soften it and make it sticky or make it highly brittle. i.e. Armor All on your dashboard is good for the plastic there and replenishes it, but other VOCs may dry it out and make it dry and brittle or it may soften it enough to make it sticky and allow you to push your finger into it.
I thought I would mention this as many people are not aware of this information. You should use the grease or oil that is recommended by the manufacturer for whatever application you have at hand. Don't use just any lubrication method, just because it is available to you. Extreme troubles like I cite are quite rare, but they do exist.
RADAR
Thanks for the responses and helpful advice. Radar I was not aware of those plastic issues with grease , I would have used any kind available since I though any would work , for me they were all grease. Thanks.
I have family that are machinist (well they have a family shop in Cuba where they fix or re-do car and motorbikes cylinders and their related parts when the engine "se funde" (I guess melts) good thing those are among the trades allowed by the goverment to be private legally) but my Uncle and his son are in Miami now so will have to ask them if their substitute in havana , another 2 nephews, are capable of manufacturing this teeth wheels). A cylinder and its rings are totally different I guess and probably easier. BTW they still use a USA made "torno" (the main machine machinist use to work) and have several other big power tools from the 1940-1950's that has been used by the family historically (although their main business was a cigar factory) and not long a go they contacted the manufacturer because some part failed and the manufacturerr was surprised that those machines were still at work 100%!. Talk about reliability!, those 40's and 50's Ford and Chevy still running in Havana, the old (bought in late 1950) General Electric fridge in my house with its Tecumseth motor that even refused to die in late 1990's even after running 24x7 for almost 2 years because the door seal rubber was gone (it lasted longer than the newly bought in the 80's russian fridge!). It still runs but the Tecumseth motor had to be newly re-wired when it died. The old RCA stereo suitcase record player that even accomodates several low rpm disks still plays fine. Those were the good manufacturing times, built by Americans and in America, so all I wonder Is What happen? , How come the sons and grandsons of those americans allow their quality go down the drain!. Pretty much like Cuba's lack of freedom relies on the shoulder of us , the new generation of cubans, and nor any other country, the lack of manufacturing quality in products sold in USA relies on the shoulder of the new generation of americans that allow this to happen as well. Not the chinese or any other country but the americans! No wonder I dislike them so much, lol. And to think we are still paying 100 USD for the same pair of Nike's made in china!.
I have learned my lesson, no way I will buy any new actuator from anyone, this was a dish with no obstructions running freely within the hardware limits and with a super arm supposedly design for bigger dishes , yeah right!, manufactured with cheap parts but sold like an army tank!. Even a russian actuator would have lasted way longer! and that is too much to say. And it barely has to move between Telemundo and Univision! thats it, No heavy use at all since my mother is the one using it. The more I think about it the more my blood boils inside.
I have friends from Ecuador (talk about internacionalism, lol) that I helped installing and alligning a 12 footer who had an extra actuator (Von Wiese, from the good times) will see if they still have it and install that one. But it will be interesting to see if my cousins in havana can manufacture this with good metal quality. Maybe they can manufacture them and send them to Moteck for them to use them!!, lol.
I have family that are machinist (well they have a family shop in Cuba where they fix or re-do car and motorbikes cylinders and their related parts when the engine "se funde" (I guess melts) good thing those are among the trades allowed by the goverment to be private legally) but my Uncle and his son are in Miami now so will have to ask them if their substitute in havana , another 2 nephews, are capable of manufacturing this teeth wheels). A cylinder and its rings are totally different I guess and probably easier. BTW they still use a USA made "torno" (the main machine machinist use to work) and have several other big power tools from the 1940-1950's that has been used by the family historically (although their main business was a cigar factory) and not long a go they contacted the manufacturer because some part failed and the manufacturerr was surprised that those machines were still at work 100%!. Talk about reliability!, those 40's and 50's Ford and Chevy still running in Havana, the old (bought in late 1950) General Electric fridge in my house with its Tecumseth motor that even refused to die in late 1990's even after running 24x7 for almost 2 years because the door seal rubber was gone (it lasted longer than the newly bought in the 80's russian fridge!). It still runs but the Tecumseth motor had to be newly re-wired when it died. The old RCA stereo suitcase record player that even accomodates several low rpm disks still plays fine. Those were the good manufacturing times, built by Americans and in America, so all I wonder Is What happen? , How come the sons and grandsons of those americans allow their quality go down the drain!. Pretty much like Cuba's lack of freedom relies on the shoulder of us , the new generation of cubans, and nor any other country, the lack of manufacturing quality in products sold in USA relies on the shoulder of the new generation of americans that allow this to happen as well. Not the chinese or any other country but the americans! No wonder I dislike them so much, lol. And to think we are still paying 100 USD for the same pair of Nike's made in china!.
I have learned my lesson, no way I will buy any new actuator from anyone, this was a dish with no obstructions running freely within the hardware limits and with a super arm supposedly design for bigger dishes , yeah right!, manufactured with cheap parts but sold like an army tank!. Even a russian actuator would have lasted way longer! and that is too much to say. And it barely has to move between Telemundo and Univision! thats it, No heavy use at all since my mother is the one using it. The more I think about it the more my blood boils inside.
I have friends from Ecuador (talk about internacionalism, lol) that I helped installing and alligning a 12 footer who had an extra actuator (Von Wiese, from the good times) will see if they still have it and install that one. But it will be interesting to see if my cousins in havana can manufacture this with good metal quality. Maybe they can manufacture them and send them to Moteck for them to use them!!, lol.
Just make sure to send your brothers ALL the original gears, not only the ones broken. They should make all new gears for you. Don't hesitate contacting Moteck - no guaranties, but they may ship you the new plastic ones for free and fast, it really costs nothing. You may give a link to your thread on this forum too.
Don't hesitate contacting Moteck - no guaranties, but they may ship you the new plastic ones for free and fast, it really costs nothing. You may give a link to your thread on this forum too.Just an update. I just started disassembling for maintenance the "new" actuator I got for free from my friends from Ecuador. It is an old VonWeise V76-1 (manufactured by FASCO who was bought by VonWiese back in 1997 I think). I just noticed this V76-1 does not have the Reed Switch system ,it has no feedback sensor at all! I think, although it indeed has the limit switches system. All seems ok even the bolts and nuts were easy to remove since they are not even rusted. But a mayor problem is that the inner tube rotates easily , seems to be extended fully (24" it meassures) and maybe disconnected or maybe the inner "plastic" nut some people has commented about has wore out completely and that is why the loose movement. I will have to dissassemble more to inspect fully.
My question is , Will I be able to easily install a reed sensor system on this V76-1 actuator? (it seems that it shares the same base with the other ones and I just have to order the reed switch parts and install it) , am I right?. Where could I get those parts?
Second, How about the inner tube that rotates freely?, Should I rotate it back into position untill it reaches the end and attaches or should start the motor untill it engages? or should juts keep disassembling it fully and see what happened?
BTW its been several days since I sent an email and a fax to MOTECK in TAIWAN and yet no reply at all but due to their low manufacturing quality it does not surprise me at all.
And the million dollar question? , Where is the doctor when the patient is sick eh?, lol. A buen entendedor con pocas palabras basta.
My question is , Will I be able to easily install a reed sensor system on this V76-1 actuator? (it seems that it shares the same base with the other ones and I just have to order the reed switch parts and install it) , am I right?. Where could I get those parts?
Second, How about the inner tube that rotates freely?, Should I rotate it back into position untill it reaches the end and attaches or should start the motor untill it engages? or should juts keep disassembling it fully and see what happened?
BTW its been several days since I sent an email and a fax to MOTECK in TAIWAN and yet no reply at all but due to their low manufacturing quality it does not surprise me at all.
And the million dollar question? , Where is the doctor when the patient is sick eh?, lol. A buen entendedor con pocas palabras basta.
Good news for me. Nothing is broken inside, the free rotating movement is normal (I had no idea how this worked but now somehow do) and I see now why it is recommended not to allow the inner tube to rotate freely since it will change the hardware limits settings without moving the gears/ limit wheels. It is fully extended (to 23 inch aprox) and the top switch is about to trip.
Now the only question is about getting/installing a reed switch sensor system for this V76-1 actuator, if possible.
Now the only question is about getting/installing a reed switch sensor system for this V76-1 actuator, if possible.
I'd suggest to disassemble the arm completely and see if anything needs to be fixed. Don't look for or order new components until you've tested the actuator and are certain, the original design works as intended, but don't satisfy your needs. There should be movement limiters in it.
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