A note from Echostar on some of the 721 reported bugs.
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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The only advantage to myself I have seen for myself is the weather application in which has been inacurate so far. The SuperDish capability may be useful later but seeing how the SuperDish is being delayed it is doing no good yet, especially since you cannot use legacy hardware on a 721 once you have connected DishPro up to it unless they have fixed that. I was hoping to be able to connect a 105 dish up to it but I guess I wont be able to. All my 301's dont have the SuperDish software yet.
Dear DISH Engineers:
1. Revert the timer padding to 99 minutes or tell us why it had to be changed. We're techies for the most part with regards to PVR's.
2. Fix the ding-dang screensaver already! Breaking something that previously worked and then not fixing it for months and months must be illegal somewhere. When I find the jurisdiction, I think I'll suggest a class-action suit....(j/k - just please fix it).
-or-
Release ALL of your code to people who have a vested interest in this project, and we will take care of the rest.
1. Revert the timer padding to 99 minutes or tell us why it had to be changed. We're techies for the most part with regards to PVR's.
2. Fix the ding-dang screensaver already! Breaking something that previously worked and then not fixing it for months and months must be illegal somewhere. When I find the jurisdiction, I think I'll suggest a class-action suit....(j/k - just please fix it).
-or-
Release ALL of your code to people who have a vested interest in this project, and we will take care of the rest.
I don't care so much about the padding issue myself, but I would like to see it remember the last choice you selected for people who rarely ever use it at minimum.
G
Guest
Guest
I think that when the 522 comes up for sale I wil trade in my 721 into Dishdepot.com and get one. I think this is ridiculous that this long awaited beta tested software has now broken more things than it fixed.
1. No more frame by frame.
2. It you skip back twice after pausing it goes back to the start of the show.
3. Still have black screen sometimes when you turn to the channel' along with aquiring signal now that I never had before.
4. Had to delete all my timers and put them back in due to the triple conflict screen saying that my Tuesday timers conflicted with my Friday timers, etc.
5. No padding past 29 minutes.
Oh yeah, I now have a weather app that actually works. God help us when they add Dish Home to the mix before the end of the year. Probably loose the ability to record two programs at the same time.
The 522 will have 10 hours less in recording time but it will work better than this box. I just can't imagine how they "test" these things but never notice how the new software can screw things all to hell. :x
1. No more frame by frame.
2. It you skip back twice after pausing it goes back to the start of the show.
3. Still have black screen sometimes when you turn to the channel' along with aquiring signal now that I never had before.
4. Had to delete all my timers and put them back in due to the triple conflict screen saying that my Tuesday timers conflicted with my Friday timers, etc.
5. No padding past 29 minutes.
Oh yeah, I now have a weather app that actually works. God help us when they add Dish Home to the mix before the end of the year. Probably loose the ability to record two programs at the same time.
The 522 will have 10 hours less in recording time but it will work better than this box. I just can't imagine how they "test" these things but never notice how the new software can screw things all to hell. :x
When people build software these days, one of the most important things, sometimes even before added "features", is ease of use. Ease of use WAS the ability to pad the timer to whatever value, up to 99, you wished. Having to go back and edit the timer to do the padding, now that the pad is maxed at 29, is NOT user friendly.
I don't pad often, but there are definitely times when it's useful. So was the screensaver that is STILL not there. And we get the added feature, once again, of audio dropouts when watching recorded programs. And the feature of being pushed right back to the start of a recorded program if you again hit the supposedly wrong key combination.
Granted, things are a bit more stable then before. And heck, even the guide comes up and works much faster. But at what cost? Removing functionality that was definitely useful, without a valid reason? Adding some additional bugs and still not fixing others (like the screensaver)?
Somebody needs to wake up and smell the coffee over at Dish. Fix bugs first, add features second, perform regression testing with new features, making sure all the ORIGINAL features still work. It's a standard development plan. Something obviously not followed here.
I don't pad often, but there are definitely times when it's useful. So was the screensaver that is STILL not there. And we get the added feature, once again, of audio dropouts when watching recorded programs. And the feature of being pushed right back to the start of a recorded program if you again hit the supposedly wrong key combination.
Granted, things are a bit more stable then before. And heck, even the guide comes up and works much faster. But at what cost? Removing functionality that was definitely useful, without a valid reason? Adding some additional bugs and still not fixing others (like the screensaver)?
Somebody needs to wake up and smell the coffee over at Dish. Fix bugs first, add features second, perform regression testing with new features, making sure all the ORIGINAL features still work. It's a standard development plan. Something obviously not followed here.
Does anyone know if it will be possible in the future to surf through various channels in your picture-in-picture window while watching something else on the other tuner or is this an inherent hardware limitation? Reason I ask this is because my TV set allowed me to do this no problem with its builtin PIP hooked up to cable tv. Its a remarkably priceless feature to not have to always swap back and forth between the two to change channels. Sure would be nice to have control over changing channels on both tuners whenever you choose to do it.
This is something I have been curious about myself. I bet the 322, 522, and 921 receivers will be the same way to these regards that the 721 is for PIP functionality.
As for the PIP, I was recording 2 football games and watching at the same time. the sad think is, I had to use the PIP to change channels to the other game.
The 721 wouldn't change to the other channel cause it was recording on both tuners, but the two channels were next to each other,,, as in 255, 256
Yet PIP changed them fine. This whole thing with the 721 is crazy, there is no consistency within the software at all. You can pad all the time you want if you hit record, pick the options screen and select the 3rd one done. You can also pad all you want from the timers, but not from the Guide??
It's a piece meal software, and if the new PVR/DVR are like this, I think people are doing to be turned way off from them cause of the software..
I could just see my Mom trying to use this thing!
Dish needs to scrap it and start from scratch.
The 721 wouldn't change to the other channel cause it was recording on both tuners, but the two channels were next to each other,,, as in 255, 256
Yet PIP changed them fine. This whole thing with the 721 is crazy, there is no consistency within the software at all. You can pad all the time you want if you hit record, pick the options screen and select the 3rd one done. You can also pad all you want from the timers, but not from the Guide??
It's a piece meal software, and if the new PVR/DVR are like this, I think people are doing to be turned way off from them cause of the software..
I could just see my Mom trying to use this thing!
Dish needs to scrap it and start from scratch.
With these 522 receivers coming out they better make better functionality of them if they are going to be charging DVR fees.
Scott Greczkowski said:
So, how long does Echostar want us to use this "Temporary" fix?
They broke, they better fix it! Like, if my car had a problem with the brakes, ..hmm don't worry, use the emergency brakes for now!
If they didn't want us to use the "Pause" button, why then did they make it a different color and put the darn thing in the middle of the Transport controls? Like, duh.. maybe they should send us all new remotes with no pause buttons for 4 months till they come out with the new software
Good thing there are no DVR fees charged on the 721. A LOT of customers would be expecting credits on their bill for DVR functionality for it not functioning correctly.
When I pause using the pause button on my Panasonic DVD changer's remote, if I then press the pause button again (as if to resume play), it's engineered to go forward one frame at a time, with each press of the button. To resume play, you hit PLAY. Sound familiar?If they didn't want us to use the "Pause" button, why then did they make it a different color and put the darn thing in the middle of the Transport controls? Like, duh.. maybe they should send us all new remotes with no pause buttons for 4 months till they come out with the new software
[quote="Allamand]
As a software engineer, I can tell you that given a valid work around - you might never see a "fix" for the issue you log. While it shouldn't skip you to the beginning of the program, I know of no rule that says hitting pause twice should first pause then unpause something. I do know that hitting play should play something. This is similar to the gripe that when paused, the 30 second skip button should still skip 30 seconds and the skip back button should still skip back. I with they did, but they don't.
When I used to work support in Software Maintenance, the first question I would ask a support rep with a new problem was if there was a work around or not. If there was, the issue was just about never a high priority.
As a software engineer, I can tell you that given a valid work around - you might never see a "fix" for the issue you log. While it shouldn't skip you to the beginning of the program, I know of no rule that says hitting pause twice should first pause then unpause something. I do know that hitting play should play something. This is similar to the gripe that when paused, the 30 second skip button should still skip 30 seconds and the skip back button should still skip back. I with they did, but they don't.
When I used to work support in Software Maintenance, the first question I would ask a support rep with a new problem was if there was a work around or not. If there was, the issue was just about never a high priority.
jcrash said:
It might not be a "rule", but that's been the standard operating procedure of the pause button since audio cassettes first came out decades ago. The purpose of the pause button in audio and video tape players is to stop the tape without removing the playing heads (or whatever they are called). Since the play button is already pressed, it's impossible to press play to "unpause" the tape.
Givent that this has been the standard implementation of the pause button for probably 30-40 years now, there's no reason to expect that it wouldn't work exactly the same on a DVR or DVD player or any other medium.
Dennis
dbronstein said:
You miss my point. There is a work around and the sky is not falling - despite the adamant assertions to the contrary. Bugs happen. If the coder in question is under the age of 25, he might well have never owned a cassette player. Obviously, it shouldn't skip you to the beginning unless the intent is that pause once you "pause" but pause twice you "stop." Nevertheless, hitting play works great. Now that everyone knows the issue, skipping to the beginning (in the eyes of a coder) becomes "user error."
Just being devils advocate as it is a position I think I have some understanding on.
