jsanders said:
This is B.S. Bluntskill was ripped off by a company with, at best, questionable ethics along with who knows how many other folks.
942 Obsolete: Dish Network Ripoff?
- Thread starter Bluntskull
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This is B.S. Bluntskill was ripped off by a company with, at best, questionable ethics along with who knows how many other folks.
The 942 is NOT junk. I bought mine after the 622 came out knowing full well of it's limitations. For me it's a better buy. Being able to record OTA HD and having 3 tuners is awesome. I don't have the HD access fee they impose on the 622 either. I suppose if I watched HBO HD or Starz HD I'd feel differently but all of their good shows end up on DVD eventually anyway. I know I'm a minority but I adore my 942.
BrettTRay said:
Not really - it would probably reveal how inpulsive and unstable there decision making process is.
Their procedures for disclosing the upcoming change to MPEG4 and the release of the new VIP receivers showed how "off the cuff" their planning is. I would hate to be one of their CRS's or Tech Support staff for the last few months because I can guarantee that there was little or no training on what process to follow or how to answer questions on MPEG4 and the new systems. And I can second guess that any training or procedures that were issued were probably updated often.
downriver said:
Let me ask you a few of questions downriver.
Do you think that E* is the only company that does this? For the most part all of them do it! If Dell announces a new computer, they aren't going to stop selling the old ones right away. They even continue selling the old ones after the new one was announced. They continue selling the old ones until the new ones start shipping. After the new one ships, then they drop the price on the old one or somethng like that.
Bluntskill ordered his 942 back in December. They hadn't even officially announced that the new one was coming out yet. Tell me, how was he ripped off then? Did he pay too much for it? Was the unit defective? Did he not get what he agreed to pay for?
Let's make you the CEO of Dish Network for a moment downriver. How would you propose to do the transition to a new receiver? Should you tell your investors and your customers that you will stop selling for a month because a new receiver is coming in a month? What do you do if your new receiver is delayed by a month, and you've had everyone waiting and you lost revenue? Let's say you do decide to stop shipping for the month prior to a release... Isn't the guy who bought the old receiver one day before the cutoff going to be really mad? Do you make it two months without selling the old receiver then? Isn't the guy who buys one two months and a day prior to the new shipping receiver going to be mad? Bluntskill bought his receiver over two months before the new one shipped.
Regardless of when an old receiver stops shipping, there is always going to be a last customer that buys one, and he may get upset. When do you stop selling that last reciver then? That customer more times than not was an uninformed customer.
We all have a right to be uninformed customers if we want to, however, sometimes we pay a price for being uninformed.
jsanders said:
The computer analogy is not valid. The simple fact is that Dish chose to continue to market a receiver knowing that it would be soon obsolete, and that it would be unable to receive upcoming programming that Dish led it's customers to believe, until the day they stopped selling the MPEG2 receivers, would be avaliable to them.
While this may be legal it is not ethical.
I believe if Dish and it's CEO gave a hoot about anything but new customers they would swap these purchased receivers out.
I also believe that they are selling programming which their dishes can only marginally receive in part of the country. While this is legal, it's also not ethical.
Of course the customer can always choose to change their service provider.
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downriver said:
It is valid. Apple announced they would be switching to Intel processors last summer, and the old ones won't be able to do what the new ones will be able to. Apple continued to market and sell the old ones for six months full knowing the new boxes were coming out. In fact, in early January they announced the new MacBook Pro would start shipping in February, and they continued selling the old PowerPC version right up to the day before they started shipping the new Intel version. I bet some uninformed people who bought the powerPC laptop were mad about that and felt snookered!
downriver said:
That isn't true at all! People on this board knew since its introduction in April 2005 that the 942 was a stop-gap to the upcoming MPEG-4 receiver. Dish was very upfront about that too. Dish told us in advance that MPEG-4 was a year away and that the 942 wasn't going to be upgradeable to MPEG-4. Did you expect dish to stop selling HD DVRs for the ten months that the 942 was sold?? I bought a 942 knowing very well that it only had a shelf life of six months. I did it because I wanted to put the 921 behind me. Consequently, I sold the 942 and bought a 622. If dish hadn't informed the public of this, I woudn't have been able to execute my upgrade plan very well. If that wasn't enough, they made a press release at CES in January that the 622 was going to ship in February. There was a bit of a mix-up in the November time-frame that 8PSK-turbo may be used for a while longer before the transition to MPEG-4 encoding, which didn't turn out to be true. There was no question that the transition was still coming soon. All of this has been disclosed to the public through press releases and Charlie Chats. Dish still sold the 942s, they are in business to make money. Only uninformed customers are upset that they bought them.
downriver said:
That is a presumptuous statement! It is an uninformed statement as well. No doubt they will, just not on the time table of your liking. If you read through this board, you will know that Dish plans to turn off all MPEG-2 encoded programs by around March, 2007, basically one year from now. At that time, they will have to make a free, or nearly free swapout just to keep the MPEG-2 customers. In the mean time, the 942/921 users have cheaper programming than 622 users do.
I feel dish has sold these irds since Feb 1 2006 with no conscience at all
Im sure if customer callls in and says they want the hd 942 they gladly sell it with no mention of the 622.
Im sure if customer callls in and says they want the hd 942 they gladly sell it with no mention of the 622.
stone phillips420 said:
What is an "irds"?? They haven't sold any 942s since 2/1/06. It isn't even on their product page anymore:
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/dvr/index.shtml
The receivers that they swap out for existing 942 customers they will referbish and sell to ExpressVu customers in Canada. They have also apparently swapped out at least one 921 for a 942 now as well.
Perhaps Bluntskull had never heard of Satellite Guys in December. After all, the great majority of Dish subs don't know this board exists. We'd have 120,000 E* subbing members if 1% of their subs were on this board.
jsanders said:
Not really the same, Apple still sells powerpc computers and due to fat binaries most people will be able to get years of usage out of the powerpc models.
This would be like the cable company selling me an HD DVR for $700 and then offering to trade me to a leased model for only $99 if I wanted any new channels.
jsanders said:
Dish and their subs marketed these receivers until the end with no disclaimer. No telling how many folks were snookered.
Computer processors are constantly upgraded but I have not seen an upgrade yet that won't send a decipherable signal to a monitor.
I don't really care about echostar and dish's profits, corporations have had a stranglehold on us for way too long, at this point they actually control our government. They are able to screw the individual for the good of the corporation.
it's starting to become a little tedious.
This forum, while read by a few people, is unknown, inconsequential, and uncared about by most. They just expect a fair shake from their service providers. Most folks consider their satellite or cable service a "utility" and take it for granted. In our rural area, satellite service is bundled and sold by the electric co-op.
Actually the platinum package is a little less the the everthing pack with voom and HD.
I hope you are right in your statement that Dish will swap all the MPEG2 DVR's out in 2007 for free. There as been nothing said about that other than speculation.
Least anyone forget...E* came right out and said MPEG-4 wasn't an immediate consideration with their November Tech Chat and E* (a fair number of CSRs, retailers, etc.) were telling subscriber that new HD channels would be available to 942 owners. Hell, how many posts have we seen here where E* representatives and technical staff were even telling customers the 942 was MPEG-4 upgradable via a software download?
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=47422&highlight=november+tech+Chat
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=42222&highlight=942+upgradable
Even the 40K SatelliteGuys members were somewhat confused by E*'s mixed messages....how in the heck are the 12 Million subscribers going to know what's going on? Most customers do not visit these forums and it's a fair expectation that a customer should be given the correct information when it is being provided by a trained employee from Dish Network!
If you have a 942 or 921 under warranty when DishHD launched on 1 February, then the right thing for E* to do (not necessarily the right legal thing for them to do since they established the DishHD Tier to protect their ass) it to upgrade these receivers for the cost of shipping, and with no 18-month commitment. The DishHD metallic packs were created for legal reasons....which only goes to show E* was more concerned with bleeding their best paying customers than they were with doing the right thing. Hell, just look at how E*'s profits almost doubled during 4th quarter 2005 ($133 million vice $70 million). Surely, the right thing would have been to earmark of a couple million of these dollars to keep your best playing customers from getting ripped off. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=59660&highlight=Echostar+earnings
Dish Network Phone Solicitor: "Hello asshat, you paid over $600 for your state-of-the-art receiver in December---which you cannot view 7 new HD channels and HD LIL (not that we pulled the wool over your eyes mind you)---but because we love so much we've decided to take back your new 942 receiver and let you lease a new 622 so you can watch those channels that we promised you could view back in December. Oh, and we'll only charge you $299 for the privilege of leasing this new receiver and obligate you to 18-months of programming...not to mention paying an additional $6 HD Leased Receiver fee under the Dish'n It Up your Arse promotion. We love you and we're not lying this time...really."
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=47422&highlight=november+tech+Chat
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=42222&highlight=942+upgradable
Even the 40K SatelliteGuys members were somewhat confused by E*'s mixed messages....how in the heck are the 12 Million subscribers going to know what's going on? Most customers do not visit these forums and it's a fair expectation that a customer should be given the correct information when it is being provided by a trained employee from Dish Network!
If you have a 942 or 921 under warranty when DishHD launched on 1 February, then the right thing for E* to do (not necessarily the right legal thing for them to do since they established the DishHD Tier to protect their ass) it to upgrade these receivers for the cost of shipping, and with no 18-month commitment. The DishHD metallic packs were created for legal reasons....which only goes to show E* was more concerned with bleeding their best paying customers than they were with doing the right thing. Hell, just look at how E*'s profits almost doubled during 4th quarter 2005 ($133 million vice $70 million). Surely, the right thing would have been to earmark of a couple million of these dollars to keep your best playing customers from getting ripped off. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=59660&highlight=Echostar+earnings
Dish Network Phone Solicitor: "Hello asshat, you paid over $600 for your state-of-the-art receiver in December---which you cannot view 7 new HD channels and HD LIL (not that we pulled the wool over your eyes mind you)---but because we love so much we've decided to take back your new 942 receiver and let you lease a new 622 so you can watch those channels that we promised you could view back in December. Oh, and we'll only charge you $299 for the privilege of leasing this new receiver and obligate you to 18-months of programming...not to mention paying an additional $6 HD Leased Receiver fee under the Dish'n It Up your Arse promotion. We love you and we're not lying this time...really."
Dish'n It Up your Arse promotion. We love you and we're not lying this time...really."
:clap :clap :clap hahaha
:clap :clap :clap hahaha
Make that misinformed -- by Dish. riffjim4069 lays out what happened in post #32. The only thing I have to add to it is that Dish officially refused to make the 942 available to existing customers, except to those who begged to ceo@, right up until they said MPEG4 wasn't ready. They then started taking orders and sent a fax to their dealers telling them to do the same, so there is written evidence. It's not a case of continuing to sell as they didn't officially begin until they knew the end was near. The part that doesn't make sense is flooding the market with a bunch of receivers that can't be used to subscribe to a more expensive programming package.jsanders said:
Thanks! I find the more I talk, the greater my odds that I will one day say something that makes sense.BobaBird said:
I got screw_d by dish too!
I switched from cable hd to dish to get more channels in hd. I was told that beginning in Jan 06 I'd get the local hd on the Sat's that I was pointed at. I have two dish 1000's hooked up to 4 hd receivers and one analog. I didn't want a third dish installed that would be not needed in a month(I was hooked up at the end of Nov. 05). I was also told that they were adding more hd channels in the first of the year. Lol and behold, they were right. What they didn't tell me was that I wouldn't be able to receive any of the promised channels. I have talked till I was blue in the face to numerous folks in the cs/tech Dept's. They could care less. All they want is more money from me to replace the 811S and 942 I now lease. What a pile of crap! I was misled and taken advantage of. I'm now stuck with an 18 month commitment with a service that leaves my wife and I less than pleased with. My ota antenna has to be adjusted to switch channels. I put up with this at first due to the short time frame until the locals would be on my Sat's. YA right! I can't wait to go back to cable. At least I knew where they were coming from!
I say sue them and let them explain it to a judge. Maybe a class action suit might rattle their cage. Anyone know a lawyer that would be willing?
I switched from cable hd to dish to get more channels in hd. I was told that beginning in Jan 06 I'd get the local hd on the Sat's that I was pointed at. I have two dish 1000's hooked up to 4 hd receivers and one analog. I didn't want a third dish installed that would be not needed in a month(I was hooked up at the end of Nov. 05). I was also told that they were adding more hd channels in the first of the year. Lol and behold, they were right. What they didn't tell me was that I wouldn't be able to receive any of the promised channels. I have talked till I was blue in the face to numerous folks in the cs/tech Dept's. They could care less. All they want is more money from me to replace the 811S and 942 I now lease. What a pile of crap! I was misled and taken advantage of. I'm now stuck with an 18 month commitment with a service that leaves my wife and I less than pleased with. My ota antenna has to be adjusted to switch channels. I put up with this at first due to the short time frame until the locals would be on my Sat's. YA right! I can't wait to go back to cable. At least I knew where they were coming from!
I say sue them and let them explain it to a judge. Maybe a class action suit might rattle their cage. Anyone know a lawyer that would be willing?
BobaBird said:
I wondered about that too. They probably came out further ahead because all the sales / leases equaled immediate $$ for something that they knew would be obsolete very soon and most would roll over to the 622 eventually anyway. It got rid of stock. It kept some subs "invested" in HD that may have otherwise looked elsewhere. They knew they could ride out the "heat" for "screwing" some subs because they still had the best show in town. It's long been established that Dish doesn't care that some of their subs are grumbling & pissed off as long as at the end of the day they remain Dish customers.
BobMurdoch said:
I have a question about that. I understand that the 942 was Mpeg2 and the 622 is Mpeg4 (whatever the heck 'Mpeg3' and 'Mpeg4" are!
), but a serviceman came out to my place the other day and told me that the 942 CAN get those other HD channels, all I have to do is install a second dish that points to the right sat. I think he said it was sat 6.5. In other words, the receiver isn't the issue, the dish and the sat are. ???BobMurdoch said:
Is that so? How do you know this? That would be great. Yippee!!:up
BobMurdoch said:
Flame away. I admit that I'm ignorant as hell here.
jsanders said:
The last part is the problem. No, I did not get what I agreed to pay for. The customer service rep stated very clearly that we could get ALL the HD channels that were to be transitioned over in the near future by D.N. That was, in fact, the main selling point, and what was decisive in our purchase. Not a small purchase, in fact. $700 is not an easy thing for me to afford.
Therein lies the fraud of the customer service rep (CSR) from Dish Network (D.N.).
Now, suppose the CSR had been informed and ethical. If he/she had said "Yes, you can get 5 HD channels on the 942. However, if you wait until February, you can purchase the new model, which may allow you to get more HD channels." In that case, D.N. would (1) have a very happy loyal customer and (2) D.N. would still have sold me a receiver. They would win both ways.
Now, I realize, that in the real world, CSRs are typically not tech-savvy people. Is it ethical for me to sue over a honest mistake? No, I dont' think so. However, I do think there is some accountability here that is needed for D.N. to assume if they want to keep me as a customer. Business is business. If they inplemented a program of perhaps swapping the old receivers for a reasonable trade-in deal for newer models, then I'd be happy.
Sure, technology changes, and the cable/satellite industry goes through growing pains. But it is STILL just like any industry. If you don't get what you paid for, then the company providing the serice has a problem on its hands.
If you bought a car, knowing that a new model will come out for the next year, and you were told that it would drive on the new expressway they are building, then you find out that it can't in fact drive on the new roadway, you would be pissed off. Yes?
Hi Bluntskull,
Not going to flame ya.
Well your service man is not correct, really. The channels that were added recently (universal, ESPN2, and 5 Voom) are tagged with an MPEG4 header so only the new VIP series receivers (211, 622, and 411 (not VIP)) can receive them. The original VOOM channels are MPEG2. They are on 61.5 and 129 depending on your location. DOn't know if you can still subscribe to them though.
As for the upgrade, on April 1st, people with a 921 or 942 can upgrade to the 622 receiver for $299. When you return your old receiver, they will credit your account $200 (A.K.A. the rebate).
Scott
Not going to flame ya.
Well your service man is not correct, really. The channels that were added recently (universal, ESPN2, and 5 Voom) are tagged with an MPEG4 header so only the new VIP series receivers (211, 622, and 411 (not VIP)) can receive them. The original VOOM channels are MPEG2. They are on 61.5 and 129 depending on your location. DOn't know if you can still subscribe to them though.
As for the upgrade, on April 1st, people with a 921 or 942 can upgrade to the 622 receiver for $299. When you return your old receiver, they will credit your account $200 (A.K.A. the rebate).
Scott
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