811, composite, S-vhs, componet or DVI? Caution--Lots to Read

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I agree that DVI is the best connection for receiving the 811 signal. But in DVI mode, (1080i), most tv's do not have any format or "stretch" capabilities. Which leaves you at the mercy of the 811, so unless you enjoy watching short fat people on your set DVI blows.

So to get the best quality picture, balancing picture quality with image realism I use Svideo for all SD viewing. My hopes are that the "image format" update talked about in last weeks tech meeting will address this.

It is a pain to switch inputs to watch hd content, but the hobbits were cool in Lord of the Rings, not on American Idol.
 
kEITH, It is not E* who is going to make digital transmission happen--it is the mandate of Congress and the FCC. When the OTA digital standard for HD was decided the manurfacuturers and content providers were left to sort out what standards they would use. This is why you see ABC doing 720p, CBS doing 1080i and FOX doing 480p.

BTW--Fox used to advertise that their digital OTA signal was High Definition Wide Screen. The FCC demanded that they drop the HD moniker because 480p is an Extended Digital signal but not a High Def signal.

The mandate is that all OTA stations broacast a digital signal and return their analog freqs by the end of 2006. The Congress has already started setting up the bidding process for this medium. You will by then have to have either purchased a digital set (High Def or Extended Def) or have a settop that will downconvert the signal to SD (480i). Downconverting will most definately deliver a horrible picture. Just ask any VOOM user about downrezing their product to 480i--that is if any of them is doing that.

My point here is that E* has nothing to do with the movement to a digital signal only. There is not going to be any analog signals after 2006. The FCC has decided not to extend the deadline. And if anyone noticed--last XMAS's biggest purchase was High Def monitors. I have seen HD monitors(tvs) for as low as $800 in my area! It is the way of the future and that future is now--Bring on more HD!!! :cool:
 
JoeSp said:
The 811 was intended for HD and for that it does a very good job -- OTA included. :)
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Which 811 are you talking about? For some time, HD programming from the DVI output had a complete lack of detail in dark areas. (P266 seems to have helped somewhat.)

As for OTA, that part of the 811 appears to have the most issues.

Otherwise, it does a great job. :)
 
JoeSp said:
kEITH, It is not E* who is going to make digital transmission happen--it is the mandate of Congress and the FCC.
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The FCC aren't going house to house and confiscating all the analog video equipment. My S-VHS VCR, Hi-8 camcorder etc. are going to be working just fine after 2006. The composite and s-video out of the 811 are not fine however, and this is 2004 NOT 2006 or some other future time. I don't give a hoot what we might be using in 2006 or 2008.

Dish are selling a defective product - today. That it might be super for you in an all digital world some time after 2006 is totally irrelevant. I do use the DVI-D output to an LCD monitor, and I do use the component output to both a Barco Graphics 800 and Panasonic LCD front projector. So what? That isn't making my S-VHS time shifting any the better. Gosh, that Barco is analog too, I guess that will have to be scrapped.

Anyway, I am turning up the heat to get my DEFECTIVE BY DESIGN 811 replaced or break the contract. If Dish can swap me out for a newer 811 with this problem fixed, I will be happy. All we want is a product that works TODAY, not to be told it will be great after 2006 after we have thrown away all our "old" analog video equipment.

Keith.
 
It's not just even the TVs that have to move to digital, but the VCRs. Until economical (under $100) VCRs with digital I/O are available, analog VHS will live on.

I predict that VCRs will get DTV tuners and DTV modulators before too long, but the storage will be analog VHS for a long time to come - mostly because of the MPAA.
 
Keith, I wish you luck but I would still wait at least a month before preceding. Even though E* has said that they have the 811 back in stock that does not seem to be the sentiment from everyone. Some are getting one and others are still waiting. Those that have gone to the advanced techs or e-mailed the CEO seem to be having better luck getting their 811 swapped. Good Luck!
 
My 811's Component Output better than DVI!

Help,
I just received my second 811 receiver on December 21st thinking that my last 811 had a unique issue. I get a noticeably better picture from the Component Output of the 811 than its DVI output. Shouldn’t DVI provide the best picture?? I have a 42'' Pan Plasma and can split the screen showing two different inputs at the same time so I put the Component on the Left and DVI on the right, clearly proving the component output on my 811 is better than its DVI output. What can do? Has anyone else seen this? The Dish Network guys said no one had every complained about this to them...

Bryan
 
There have been many complaints about this issue. The DVI from the 811 is not as good as component for some unknown reasons. When I switched to the 921, the picture from the DVI was excellent, and noticably better. The 811 put out a poor picture.
 
Viewing the 811's HD output on a 50" Sammy DLP DTV, the DVI output provides a sharper image than the Component output; both direct to the DTV from the 811. With a Direct View HDTV, the opposite is often true. But, for a digital TV, the DVI should yield the better picture. If it didn't after replacing the 811, I would question my DVI cable and the electronics in my DTV. One or the other isn't doing its job properly or to the extent possible with available technology.

If you are talking about viewing SD programming, then all bets are off as to best PQ. Too many variables for a consistent result with any given set of video components.
 
HD signal was used to compare the DVI input to the Component input. DVI cable is a Monster DVI to HDMI 6' cable. The TV's integrated HD tuner produces the best picture far exceeding the picture from the 811's DVI output. The other interesting test I have done is use the split screen function of the TV to compare a null Component input with a Null DVI input. The null DVI portion of the screen is Gray where the null Component portion of the screen is black! I would think this could cause the washed out affect..??
 
I un-hooked the DVI cable from the back of the 811 receiver and now the portion of the screen with the DVI input on the TV is no longer gray, it is black. So when the TV is plugged into the 811 receiver it causes the DVI input to be washed out!
 
Found a 6' Philips DVI cable at Sam's today for $12.50, and figured "what's to lose?". I hooked it up to my 65' Sony RP and I do see a marginally better SD picture than I did with component. The HD seems to be no better and no worse than component.
 
bryanw197 said:
I am renting my 811 for $5 a month... Are you renting your 921 or did you have to purchase it?
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Is your 811 a second receiver? Then you're not renting it, jut paying the mirror fee.

All 921's are purchased - no lease available. :(
 
HD signal was used to compare the DVI input to the Component input. DVI cable is a Monster DVI to HDMI 6' cable.
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The clue may be "DVI to HDMI". There are reported problems on various internet forums and product reviews regarding some of these conversion cables. It isn't a subject of my current interest, so I didn't take notes, but I remember the issue being discussed. Try some AVS Forum searches.

BTW, with a DVI to DVI Monster cable from my 811 to a Sammy DLP, a null input produces a black screen, same as I get with my Phillips Component cables.
 
Not all 811's are created equal !!! My 1st 811 was junk, constant lockups, etc, but picture was great using DVI-D on my 26 JVC LCD. The 811 they sent to replace mine suffered from very dark picture and pixelation on HD stations, so I dumped it on Ebay and ordered one through Sears, this one has great picture, but has it's share of BUGS, some fixed by software, some not, still locks up at times. Not all 811 are created equal.
 
composite can be better then svideo if your tv has a good comb filter
componet is better then dvi if you have an analog tv such as a direct view crt (tube tv)
 

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