600 Feet of RG11 DPP Twin -> DPP44

[Solid-State]

IMO the customer is not worth the headache you are going to be dealing with, with cable runs that long and the non-standard equip being used, and your lack of knowledge of products being used they are going to probably haunt you for a long long time.

My lack of knowledge? "haunt you for a long long time"

Screw you jerkoff... nice help and nice POSITIVE ATTITUDE!!!

If you don't have anything to contribute... SHUT UP!!!

 

[TheKrell]

My recommendation: put him on ignore. And please tell us how your 600' installation went!

 

[Solid-State]

hey TheKrell!!!

Well I just finished it as the Sonora LAL205a-T had shipping problems. I measured the cable with my JDSU gear and it is actually 728' !!!!

At the IRD ports on the DPP44 I tested -34.6 dBm no matter what transponder/frequency. That autogain function on the LAL205a-T is just amazing. Thank god for Holland/Sonora and their very well engineered gear as I wouldn't have been able to give them TV otherwise.

Here is a rundown on the gear used for anyone needing to provide Dish/Bell signal over 600'

Bell at 91 and 82 -->Dishpro Twin-->4SPI-20-->LA282a-T-->728' Belden 1525a RG11-->LAL205a-T-->two HRvT116 decoupling and padding 16db-->DPP44-->DPP Separator--> Bell 9241 x 2 and two other jacks with 75ohm terminators.

IRD signal reads a steady 87% and signal is -34.6 on all frequencies.

WORKED LIKE A HOT DAM!!!

YAY!!!!

 

[TheKrell]

Congratluations. But do I understand that you have amps both before and after the long run of RG11? Having never done this before, I might have expected the LA282 alone to be sufficient.

 

[chicagonettech]

Great job!

 

[Solid-State]

Yeah I used two amps. Signal enters the cable at -8 dBm. Insertion loss average across bands is around -48 dbm so I figure it's entering the LAL282a-T autogain around -58 dBm though I didn't measure as I didn't want to know LOL... I did measure though at the DPP44 receiver ports and it is EXACTLY -36.5 dBm on every transponder including the ones on 82 and it's a LOT HOTTER than 91. The HRvT 116 padding and DC decoupling helped even things out. It's just past spec on the input window for the LAL205 but it's working great and the noise floor hasn't really increased. The cable is burial though so that helps. Do you guys think using two DP duals instead of a DP twin will help? Looking at the LA282 input window spec I don't think I could use two 24" dishes as it would be to hot. I guess I can stick two DP duals on the Dish500. Would this really make any difference verses DP twin? I heard mention that it's a bad idea to use DPP Twin with DPP44 and I have done this in the past on two installs and haven't heard any complaints/problems from those installs done couple years ago. Wondering if I made a mistake on those... In this instance though I used DP Twin not DPP Twin.

 

[Solid-State]

Just bumping this thread for response why so many feel that using a Dish Pro Plus Twin LNB with a Dish Pro Plus 44 switch is a bad idea.

In the Echostar "Technical Reference Bulletin" for the DPP Twin LNB on page 15 it clearly shows it connected to DPP44. It also mentions not to use DPP Twin with DP34. Is this what people are thinking/confusing?

I'm really concerned about these statements as I have installs using DPP44 with DPP Twin. II haven't had a single call back though.

Are people confusing the fact DPP Twin LNB can't be used with DP34 ?

 

[Claude Greiner]

IMO the customer is not worth the headache you are going to be dealing with, with cable runs that long and the non-standard equip being used, and your lack of knowledge of products being used they are going to probably haunt you for a long long time.

I agree somewhat with this. I have been doing this for 12 years, and unless you get it right the first time, this customer is going to keep nagging you everytime they loose signal, or realize that they are missing random channels due to certain frequancies dropping off at due to the long cable runs.

Eventually what happens is that after going out several times for trouble calls, you end up eating the cost of a $500 commercial grade amplifier to make the problem go away.

My suggestion is to talk to someone at a place such as Holland Electronics that sell commercial grade equipment, and have them design the system and figure out all the proper amplification taking in account for signal loss due to the long cable runs.


Claude G.

 

[Claude Greiner]

I just read the rest of the thread, and its good to see that you got the system working with the advise of Holland.

What did you end up charging the customer?

 

[Solid-State]

I wish not to share the costs and am rather shocked you'd ask as it's inappropriate don't you think! Everyone seems very concerned about voltage. I have a 4SPI-20 inserter with 1.4 amps of 20v current with less than 20' of cable between the inserter and the LNB.

Unfortunately I live in Canada and my wholesale prices on this gear are OUTRAGEOUS. I pay slightly higher than RETAIL from a wholesaler. Really looking for a better wholesaler in Canada for Dishpro and Sonora gear.

To give you guys an idea... a Dish Pro Dual LNB costs me $50 bucks and a DPP Twin is $45(used to charge me $65 until I complained). A DPP44 is a $100 bucks and the Sonora LAL205 is $210 at COST.They also have sent me referb LNBs and that really pissed me off.

I would still like to know why most of you say using a DPP Twin with a DPP44 is a bad idea. I don't understand why you all feel this way and the echostar info says you can do this. Is this confusion with the fact DPP Twin can't be used with DP34 etc?

 

[Solid-State]

There can sometimes be switch integration issues with the DDP Twin and a DPP44SW. You could save yourself some headache not to mention it's cheaper to just use two duals or a DP twin.

And these switch integration issues prob have to do with what port on the DPP Twin is sent to what port on a DPP44. I think what happens is they have the wrong ports from the DPP Twin sent to the wrong port on the DPP44. This would make the ports backwards and only a checkswitch would resolve. It defaults to port 1 being the more eastern bird and port 2 being the more western on the DPP44. The physical ports on the DPP Twin are the reverse. Port 1 is the eastern bird and port 2 is the more westerly bird when DPP Twin is connected to DPP44 and has gone into Dishpro bandstack mode and is the SAME THING as two dishpro singles. This means DPP Twin port 1 goes to DPP44 port 2 and DPP Twin port 2 goes to DPP44 port 1. If it's backward then the birds are reversed on the DPP44 switch and the power on defaults of IRD will have 22khz tone/DiSEqC backwards for each bird. A checkswitch on the IRD will set it right but if the IRD reboots from firmware hit etc it will be backwards again until checkswitch is run.

 

[Solid-State]

Yes, the DP twin is just a DPP Twin without an input for a wing dish. Must use two DP21s to add a third orbital slot. Even the legacy twin/quad can output 110/119 on one cable, but just like the DP dual, requires SW21s for a third orbital slot. Legacy twins/quads cannot be hooked to external DP/DPP switches.

The DP Twin is not just a DPP Twin without an input for wing dish. This is totally WRONG man... if this is the case please explain how a DPP Twin with dish pro plus separator works!!! How can the signal from two satellites be sent down one segment to two tuners AT THE SAME TIME IE When PVR is recording on both sats at the SAME TIME. Understand that when you use a DPP Twin in this way it uses old school voltage switch in combination with 22khz/DiSEqC and bandstacking with an extra band. The fact it uses voltage switching in DPP mode also accounts for the fact it's legacy compatible isn't it!!!

The DPP Twin can do BOTH Dish Pro and Dish Pro Plus depending on what it's connected to!!!

DP Twin and DPP Twin are not the same... in fact they are not even similar! Well I guess they are if connected to DPP44 and even in this case they are different as DP Twin provides both birds on 22khz tone/DiSEqC down BOTH IFLs to DPP44. The DPP Twin will only send bandstacked for each bird discrete to each IFL to DPP44 with no 22khz/DiSEqC bird switch.

The DP Twin and DPP Twin are not the same animal and in fact work completely differently.

PS I've also been installing sat TV for over 10 years just like the site admin/opp but I don't get to use this gear as often as Bell still uses legacy the cheap buggers!