5G Is DISH’s “Manhattan Project”

[Juan]

1G generally refers to the old AMPS analog service.

Of course..with 5g landlines and cellular are merging...something that cant be done from a traditional cell tower(line of sight)...5g is supposed to replace the final mile of landline service with a dependable wireless connection...these things never work as advertised..atleast in my experience...dish is a look so claiming to be building a fixed wireless 5g internet network...my point is they are late to the game

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[comfortably_numb]

How's the weather in Moscow, Juan?

 

[Juan]

How's the weather in Moscow, Juan?

Moscow pa?...

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[charlesrshell]

How's the weather in Moscow, Juan?

Moscow, TN?

 

[Juan]

Moscow, TN?

Lots of Moscow's and lots of russias

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[EarDemon]

I think it’s fair to say, mobile data generations, nG, are a combination of real standards, quasi-standards and marketing. It is all extremely confusing and when Marketing Departments and the carriers themselves get involved we see debates like this. 1xRTT is technically a 3G technology I believe, along with EDGE, but then you’ve got what some call 2.5G, where EVDO Rev A is ‘real 3G’ and 1x is 2.5G.

Carriers don’t help either when they make up things like Verizon XLTE and Sprint Spark. And AT&T is doing the entire industry a disservice with rebranding existing networks to next generation networks that clearly aren’t. Like in 2011 when AT&T rebranded their 3G HSPA+ network as 4G and now where they are rebranding LTE in some circumstances as 5G E in areas with 4 x 4 MIMO, CA and 256 QAM.

While this is 8 years old, it’s still a good read
2G, 3G, 4G, and everything in between: an Engadget wireless primer

And for the answer to all things, the Wikipedia article
List of mobile phone generations - Wikipedia
Comparison of mobile phone standards - Wikipedia

Mobile Network Generations are more marketing then anything. There is no enforced standard from a governing body that says in order to be called 4G the connection must provide X speeds over Y distance, with N x N MIMO. I don’t care ifs it called 3G or 18G, it’s the technology behind it is what matters. To me, telling me the type of technology I’m connected to, which frequency or band I’m connected to, and giving me the signal strength is terms of dBm is of much more value then a 7G icon with a random number of bars or dots to it to indicate signal strength.

 

[Juan]

I think it’s fair to say, mobile data generations, nG, are a combination of real standards, quasi-standards and marketing. It is all extremely confusing and when Marketing Departments and the carriers themselves get involved we see debates like this. 1xRTT is technically a 3G technology I believe, along with EDGE, but then you’ve got what some call 2.5G, where EVDO Rev A is ‘real 3G’ and 1x is 2.5G.

Carriers don’t help either when they make up things like Verizon XLTE and Sprint Spark. And AT&T is doing the entire industry a disservice with rebranding existing networks to next generation networks that clearly aren’t. Like in 2011 when AT&T rebranded their 3G HSPA+ network as 4G and now where they are rebranding LTE in some circumstances as 5G E in areas with 4 x 4 MIMO, CA and 256 QAM.

While this is 8 years old, it’s still a good read
2G, 3G, 4G, and everything in between: an Engadget wireless primer

And for the answer to all things, the Wikipedia article
List of mobile phone generations - Wikipedia
Comparison of mobile phone standards - Wikipedia

Mobile Network Generations are more marketing then anything. There is no enforced standard from a governing body that says in order to be called 4G the connection must provide X speeds over Y distance, with N x N MIMO. I don’t care ifs it called 3G or 18G, it’s the technology behind it is what matters. To me, telling me the type of technology I’m connected to, which frequency or band I’m connected to, and giving me the signal strength is terms of dBm is of much more value then a 7G icon with a random number of bars or dots to it to indicate signal strength.

Its all marketing...there are no rules or laws defining whats what

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[HipKat]

Moscow pa?...

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When I was a truck driver, I used to drive through all the time going to NY City area and back on I380. There was a spot just off the northbound side of the highway where for years, someone had a sign put up complaining about unions or something. I never did get a chance to read the whole thing, but it was like a landmark. I wonder if it's still there after all these years

 

[HipKat]

I think it’s fair to say, mobile data generations, nG, are a combination of real standards, quasi-standards and marketing. It is all extremely confusing and when Marketing Departments and the carriers themselves get involved we see debates like this. 1xRTT is technically a 3G technology I believe, along with EDGE, but then you’ve got what some call 2.5G, where EVDO Rev A is ‘real 3G’ and 1x is 2.5G.

Carriers don’t help either when they make up things like Verizon XLTE and Sprint Spark. And AT&T is doing the entire industry a disservice with rebranding existing networks to next generation networks that clearly aren’t. Like in 2011 when AT&T rebranded their 3G HSPA+ network as 4G and now where they are rebranding LTE in some circumstances as 5G E in areas with 4 x 4 MIMO, CA and 256 QAM.

While this is 8 years old, it’s still a good read
2G, 3G, 4G, and everything in between: an Engadget wireless primer

And for the answer to all things, the Wikipedia article
List of mobile phone generations - Wikipedia
Comparison of mobile phone standards - Wikipedia

Mobile Network Generations are more marketing then anything. There is no enforced standard from a governing body that says in order to be called 4G the connection must provide X speeds over Y distance, with N x N MIMO. I don’t care ifs it called 3G or 18G, it’s the technology behind it is what matters. To me, telling me the type of technology I’m connected to, which frequency or band I’m connected to, and giving me the signal strength is terms of dBm is of much more value then a 7G icon with a random number of bars or dots to it to indicate signal strength.

I'll be honest, I don't what it's called or what the architecture is. I'm the end user that wants fast, reliable internet and the faster the better. They can call it K9 for all I care

 

[Juan]

When I was a truck driver, I used to drive through all the time going to NY City area and back on I380. There was a spot just off the northbound side of the highway where for years, someone had a sign put up complaining about unions or something. I never did get a chance to read the whole thing, but it was like a landmark. I wonder if it's still there after all these years

It wasnt me but I remember a moscow on that road

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[EarDemon]

Its all marketing...there are no rules or laws defining whats what

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Exactly, I don't understand what others don't understand about that.

I'm interested in the technology behind cable internet.

In the cable industry you have CableLabs, the governing body, which is made up of cablecos, semiconductor companies and networking vendors. CableLabs sets the specifications for the Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification (DOCSIS) standard. These are recognized standards.

In a nutshell

D1.0 – The original standard that defined everything about cable modem technology, utilized one 6 MHz frequency from 50 MHz to 750 MHz for downstream, 5 to 42 MHz for upstream
D1.1 – Improvements in QoS with the intention of better VoIP performance for the end user
D2.0 – 88 MHz to 860 MHz DS, 5 to 42 MHz US
D3.0 – 108 MHz to 1.002 MHz DS, 5 to 85 MHz US, introduced US and DS channel bonding, added iPv6 Support
D3.1 – In addition to QAM, 25 or 50 kHz OFDM channels are used
D3.1FD – Opens up the entire 0 MHz to 1.2 GHz spectrum for both DS and US resulting in symmetrical speeds

These are three generations, with a few revs, of hard definable standards set by a central organization that all US cable companies and all manufactures of headend equipment and CPE must abide by.

There is no equivalent in the cellular world. You have competing technologies that have standards, but there are no standards for the different generations.

 

[EarDemon]

I'll be honest, I don't what it's called or what the architecture is. I'm the end user that wants fast, reliable internet and the faster the better. They can call it K9 for all I care

By architecture if you mean technology, you should care about that. LTE is a superior technology versus HSPA Plus. It would have been interesting to see what wimax would have been. I was getting 30-35 Mbps down back in 2010 on Sprints's/Clearwire's 4G Wimax network, upload was intentionally capped to 1.5 Mbps though. This was faster than AT&Ts HSPA Plus, and faster then Verizon's LTE at first launch. But the latency was higher. 70 - 90 ms versus 50 - 60 Ms.

So I don't see why people are giving Juan such a hard time.

What one should care about is a nice mix of low spectrum to extend coverage and help with in building/underground penetration and higher spectrum for faster speeds. Since you're from Buffalo, I'll make a local reference. I can push upwards of 200 Down / 60 Up on T-Mobile by the Eastern Hills Mall in Williamsville. There's a massive tower by the Sheridan Drive entrance of the Staybridge Hotel, I assume that's where the signal in originating from and I assume it's either band 2 or 66.

 

[Juan]

Exactly, I don't understand what others don't understand about that.

I'm interested in the technology behind cable internet.

In the cable industry you have CableLabs, the governing body, which is made up of cablecos, semiconductor companies and networking vendors. CableLabs sets the specifications for the Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification (DOCSIS) standard. These are recognized standards.

In a nutshell

D1.0 – The original standard that defined everything about cable modem technology, utilized one 6 MHz frequency from 50 MHz to 750 MHz for downstream, 5 to 42 MHz for upstream
D1.1 – Improvements in QoS with the intention of better VoIP performance for the end user
D2.0 – 88 MHz to 860 MHz DS, 5 to 42 MHz US
D3.0 – 108 MHz to 1.002 MHz DS, 5 to 85 MHz US, introduced US and DS channel bonding, added iPv6 Support
D3.1 – In addition to QAM, 25 or 50 kHz OFDM channels are used
D3.1FD – Opens up the entire 0 MHz to 1.2 GHz spectrum for both DS and US resulting in symmetrical speeds

These are three generations, with a few revs, of hard definable standards set by a central organization that all US cable companies and all manufactures of headend equipment and CPE must abide by.

There is no equivalent in the cellular world. You have competing technologies that have standards, but there are no standards for the different generations.

Cable doesn't compete with cable...they have a monopoly...its their best interest to cooperate..cellular competes with cellular..different world

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[HipKat]

By architecture if you mean technology, you should care about that. LTE is a superior technology versus HSPA Plus. It would have been interesting to see what wimax would have been. I was getting 30-35 Mbps down back in 2010 on Sprints's/Clearwire's 4G Wimax network, upload was intentionally capped to 1.5 Mbps though. This was faster than AT&Ts HSPA Plus, and faster then Verizon's LTE at first launch. But the latency was higher. 70 - 90 ms versus 50 - 60 Ms.

So I don't see why people are giving Juan such a hard time.

What one should care about is a nice mix of low spectrum to extend coverage and help with in building/underground penetration and higher spectrum for faster speeds. Since you're from Buffalo, I'll make a local reference. I can push upwards of 200 Down / 60 Up on T-Mobile by the Eastern Hills Mall in Williamsville. There's a massive tower by the Sheridan Drive entrance of the Staybridge Hotel, I assume that's where the signal in originating from and I assume it's either band 2 or 66.

I wonder what that speed is downtown, or even more towards the city like Kenmore, etc, which is at a much lower elevation than the Amherst/Williamsville/Clarence area. Interesting fact. The steps on the VA Hospital are at the same elevation as the top of City Hall

 

[Cheddar_Head]

So I don't see why people are giving Juan such a hard time.

Because is acting like a Verizon shill, all the carriers are moving forward with "5G". Verizon is no better or worse than the others. Plus Verizon has a real history of rebranding older technology as the latest and greatest, not that the other carriers don't do the same.

 

[Juan]

Because is acting like a Verizon shill, all the carriers are moving forward with "5G". Verizon is no better or worse than the others. Plus Verizon has a real history of rebranding older technology as the latest and greatest, not that the other carriers don't do the same.

You are getting Verizon confused with ATT..sorry pal

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[nelson61]

Because is acting like a Verizon shill, all the carriers are moving forward with "5G". Verizon is no better or worse than the others. Plus Verizon has a real history of rebranding older technology as the latest and greatest, not that the other carriers don't do the same.

Any company that still uses CDMA also makes buggy whips.

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[Juan]

Any company that still uses CDMA also makes buggy whips.

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True...but Verizon is getting rid of it

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[comfortably_numb]

True...but Verizon is getting rid of it

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1xRTT and EVDO Rev. A end of life is 12/31/19, IIRC.

 

[EarDemon]

I wonder what that speed is downtown, or even more towards the city like Kenmore, etc, which is at a much lower elevation than the Amherst/Williamsville/Clarence area. Interesting fact. The steps on the VA Hospital are at the same elevation as the top of City Hall

I did not know that. For my previous job used to have to make a semi regular visit to the 13th (I think) floor of the VA where there was a bunch of construction going on. I must have been way above sea level. And contrary to that, I also used to have to go to sub basement #2 of HSBC Tower. The only form of communication that worked down there at the time (2010 - 2013) was 2 way radio.

I can only speak for T-Mobile, but generally in the Buffalo area, outdoors, with a stronger signal Download can be 80 – 100 Mbps, Upload can be 15 – 20 Mbps. Indoors it drops, and drops quick.

Very rarely do I go downtown or anywhere close to the city now that I'm not required to for work. However on the 15th I went to Key Bank Center for Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Outside of the arena while waiting to be let it I was getting 90 – 110 down and a solid 20 up. Inside, on the floor sitting where center ice would be, right underneath the Jumbotron, my speeds were cut in half. Topped out at around 50 x 10.

Just got back from burning some Christmas gift cards before all of the drunks get on the road.

Cheektowaga – In line at Chick Fil A – 30 x 15
Williamsville – Hobby Lobby parking lot – 90 x 15 / inside Hobby Lobby – 60 x 10
Williamsville – Wegman’s parking lot – 95 x 15 / Wegman’s café second story – 45 x 10
Depew – future site of Chick Fil A #2 – 135 x 25
Lancaster – ATM at bank near D&L Plaza - 120 x 15

And these are from Eastern Hills. The 191 is from right by Lenco Lumber, 187 is near the back of the mall by the movie theater entrance. The difference in upload is very surprising to me. Pings are always inbetween 50 - 70 ms. When I had Sprint, I'd get pings in the 40s, Verizon was 30s and 40s. In the Spring when I went to NYC and Long Island, T-Mobile pings were in the 30s, so I know they are capable of it, just don't see it around here.

Out in my neck of the woods aka God's Country in rural Eastern Erie/Northern Wyoming/Southern Genesee, if I actually have service, I can usually do 120 x 20 with no problem when near a tower.