2.8X ever coming?
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Six more months. 
I don't know, but I'd rather them wait until they get EVERY thing fixed before they release the software. That way, 1 SW release=total fix without ANY bugs!
I don't know, but I'd rather them wait until they get EVERY thing fixed before they release the software. That way, 1 SW release=total fix without ANY bugs!
tonyp56 said:Six more months.
I don't know, but I'd rather them wait until they get EVERY thing fixed before they release the software. That way, 1 SW release=total fix without ANY bugs!
Been here long?
Yeah right,,, if only they could make these as stable as the 311s
tonyp56 said:Six more months.
I don't know, but I'd rather them wait until they get EVERY thing fixed before they release the software. That way, 1 SW release=total fix without ANY bugs!
Obviously not in the software field Tony. Any time you release software new bugs are introduced while other ones are squished. The goal is to squish a lot more than you created. What you don't what is a Hydra release.
If your expectations are total fix with no new bugs, you are going to be disappointed. My hope is that the next release will be stable with no new major bugs while fixing some of the functionality that is not working properly.
The Rumblings I have heard have been October.
The 2 things on the top of my list are....
1. Fix the Damn picture freeze-ups on HD.
2. Fix the favorite lists so they function like the other receivers do.
NightRyder
1. Fix the Damn picture freeze-ups on HD.
2. Fix the favorite lists so they function like the other receivers do.
NightRyder
An 811 software update most likely won't help the HD picture freeze-ups as they are most likely caused by Dish's experimentation with 3 HD channels per transponder. I understand that D* is now doing something similar and those users are now getting satellite HD PQ problems. Since the satellite providers are out of bandwidth (because they are using all of it to bring locals to places like Podunk, OK), the only way this HD situation is going to improve is if they either get more birds in the sky or improve the compression techniques. Either fix is probably a ways off.
WeeJavaDude said:
To begin with, I was JUST stating that I'd rather Dish not release software until they actually had something worth releasing (fixes bugs, activates features, etc...) Why release software that is pointless? (I know just because I don't see a difference, doesn't mean the new software doesn't do something!)
I realize that no SW is perfect, BUT, there is no excuse to release a product that has as many problems as the 811 (or the 301, 311, 322, 522, 921, 721, 6000, etc...) did/has.(We shouldn't have ever talked about a dark video issue, the 811 should have had Fav lists that actually hold more than 120 channels, Dish Home should have been activated from the beginning, and etc...) My point about not releasing more software until they get things fixed is very simple, why release software today, then two, three, four, etc. weeks from now release another SW ver. then in another month release another SW release. Why not consolidate all these little, pointless SW releases into ONE. Also why not take the time to test the newer SW to make sure that they are not adding more bugs, or at the very least no major bugs. I have had my 811 for over six months, and it is finally working like it should have when I first got it. There is no excuse for that, I don't care how imperfect you say software is!
FYI: I had three different DTV receivers for seven years, and I NEVER was dissatisfied with features, bugs, blank screens, NO guide information, mis-mapping of my channels, Favorite lists, and etc... When I pressed the guide button on the remote I never waited thirty-ninety seconds for the guide information to come up! (and that was with a 72 hour guide) When I switched to Dish just over two years ago with two 301's I noticed right away that Dish's receivers (at least the 301 and 811) are a lot more buggy than DTV. Why is this? Doesn't DTV use software for their receivers? Wouldn't this cause the same problems I am having on my Dish receivers? And another thing, during this seven year period I only received three SW updates (two of them went to two receivers at the same time).
I do like Dish better than DTV when it comes to price, programming choices and quality. But when it comes to their equipment I am very dissatisfied.
tonyp56 said:
I am sure people that benefit from the release would have a different opiniont.
However, there have been some questionable 811 releases that have me puzzeled. Since I am not prevy to the software release I just chalk it up as not knowing the whole picture. tonyp56 said:
Couple of reasons here Tony. You might not agree with them, but here they are... (And I agree there is no excuses for releasing software at the quality levels that Dish does. They need to step it up)
1) If they were to wait until they fixed everything they knew about, it would be a lot longer cycle than we currently have and a lot more customer pain in the long run. Imagine what the out cry would be if they waited 8 months after the intial release to fix all the issues that have been addressed since last December. I don't think there would have been anybody left using an 811. As to why the 811 was released in that state to begin with is another question. Could be number of reason including part issues etc.
2) When software is released, there is usually a process of determing if one should or not. In lots of cases, the determining factor is "Will the user be better off today, than yesterday". If the answer is yes, the software usually is released. If they were to wait for all customer related bugs to be fixed, software may never get released. It is an ongoing problem.
3) There are always bugs that are not seen in the lab, but later when widely deployed show up. Personal example: We released process control software and a refiner reported random crashes. We could not reproduce the problem so they sent out an engineer to sight. We checked everything out and it was not until I noticed that when someone on another machine pressed the horn silence key all the other machines lost a buffer. This was not caught by the test group. Sometimes it takes real world environments to create these types of bugs.
FYI: I had three different DTV receivers for seven years, and I NEVER was dissatisfied with features, bugs, blank screens, NO guide information, mis-mapping of my channels, Favorite lists, and etc... When I pressed the guide button on the remote I never waited thirty-ninety seconds for the guide information to come up! (and that was with a 72 hour guide) When I switched to Dish just over two years ago with two 301's I noticed right away that Dish's receivers (at least the 301 and 811) are a lot more buggy than DTV. Why is this? Doesn't DTV use software for their receivers? Wouldn't this cause the same problems I am having on my Dish receivers? And another thing, during this seven year period I only received three SW updates (two of them went to two receivers at the same time).
I do like Dish better than DTV when it comes to price, programming choices and quality. But when it comes to their equipment I am very dissatisfied.[/QUOTE]
I am assuming your 39 seconds includes an acquiring signal? I agree with you that Dish needs better software develpment process. There are a number of threads that discuss this issue. You can do a search and see the opinions why this is the case. As to DTV vs. Dish. This is interesting. My neighbor has 6 DTV receivers of different types, He mentioned a few months back that they were randomely locking up. All of them. Sometime the environment is what shows the bugs. That is the only way I can explain some of the 811 bugs and why we are not all seeing them. For the record, I have seen my share of 811 bugs.
Since I have not had any experience with DTV and have not insight into either companies process, I cannot comment on difference in software quality. From the posts it seems that DTV is more conservative in their release process. This usually equates slower release cycles, but higher quality. Also DTV is a different model. More OEM like and the OEM companies might be better in producing software.
Don't read this wrong, There are way to produce good and bad software. Yes all software has its bugs. Some are more reliable than others. The point I was making is that having the expectations that a box is bug free is not pratical. Having the expectations that all mainly work as designed and the box is reliable is more than fair.
Since I have been an 811 user since December, I know your pain and understand your points. Hopefully I glarified my position and thoughts.
Sorry. But, no. You don't.mdonnelly said:Hey, I live in Podunk, OK. I have as much right to locals as any city slicker.
WeeJavaDude said:I am sure people that benefit from the release would have a different opiniont.
I understand your point, but, which bugs you the most, that it takes so long for them to fix something, or that they release "new" software often, but you don't see a difference in what you experience?
WeeJavaDude said:
Same as above, yes, waiting a long time to get something fixed isn't good, but wouldn't having several issue's fixed be worth the wait! Point 2, I am not asking for "all customer related bugs to be fixed" I am only asking that they try to take care of as many things as they can before releasing their software. Point 3, true, but isn't this were beta testers come in. True even with real beta testers there will still be things that slip through the cracks, but will they be as many or as bad. Why is it Dish uses their paying customers as beta testers? But like I said, even with beta testers their will still be bugs, in other words I am not refuting that.
YesWeeJavaDude said:
The difference that I saw between Dish and DTV as far as lockups, bugs, etc. was like day and night. True everyone can see different issues, but it was like the difference between DOS 5.0 and Windows 95 to me. (yes that extreme, when you take the guide, menus, and just general problems, granted there was some things that my 301's had that none of my DTV receivers had like caller ID, Dish Home, etc. It's the fact that the features that DTV's receivers had worked more reliabaly)
WeeJavaDude said:
I don't take it the wrong way, I was just trying to clarify my own POV, and I do understand how it is software isn't always perfect, and how you can't have a 100% bug free piece of software, it's just the way Dish does their SW releases, and how it seems that their receivers have more bugs than others. Perhaps I should have worded my post better, but that was the point I was trying to make, not to say no one else can have a different POV. I just felt that you didn't understand or I didn't fully convey my POV.
and vice-versaWeeJavaDude said:
GaryPen said:That's just crazy talk!
Which is, that they not release new software until they fix things, or that Dish will ever fix their receivers?
tonyp56 said:
Well from what I can tell they have a list of bugs (long in nature) and they have prioritized them and continue to do it as new bugs are introduced and others are squashed. If a bug is taking a long time to fix, I assume one of the three possible situations.
1) It is considered minor and low on the priority list.
2) It is considered moderate, but is a nasty one to fix.
3) It is considered major, but cannot be reproduced in the lab or is a major architectual nightmare to fix.
As to what bugs me more.. I would have to say length of time to fix something because i am impatient. And if a particular bug has a high reoccurance rate and I hit it a lot then I am more annoyed about it. I have been with the acquiring sat bug on the 6000 and 811 for about 4 years. My guess is it falls into one of the three above catagories or it would have been fixed.
Also, Sometimes a software fix will be pushed out for one specific reason. on the last release my guess was that some people were not getting channels they were suppose to. Since there are contractual obligations, my guess is that is why it was pushed out. The other rumored fixes were what one would call one line wonders with minimal risk. My guess is the next release will be more comprehensive.
tonyp56 said:
My experience with Beta programs has not been good. Very poor feedback. I wrote post a while back on how I felt Dish could improve software quality and it centered around These forums for Beta feedback. I even offered to be the 811 liason. But I would not do something unless there was something given back to the bleading edge folk in terms of release notes and more input into the issues and more disclosure on the problems. I really would like to know the root cause of the acquiring signal issue.
We might think ourself as Beta testers, but to Dish we are not. My understand there is a Beta program. Just does not work like it should. (Someone correct me if I am wrong). Dish however has a different release model than D*. Model.. Get software out earlier and provided a quicker fix cycle. This is not an uncommon model. They really need better Beta Feedback.
tonyp56 said:
To me, besides the UI candy coating, I did not see a lot of difference in DOS 5.0 and Windows 95.
Your opinion is generally echoed by D* subs that have moved to Dish. I agree that Dish needs to improve their quality of the software on initial release and minimize reqression type bugs on subsequent releases. No argument here.tonyp56 said:
I fully understand your point of few and can read your frustration. I am not that far from your point of few at all. However, when I see a post like your intial one, I feel the need to try and clarify some of the issues software development has. Some of the trade offs they make and offer up where I feel the issues are in terms of Dish's reliability problems.
Dish needs to improve in this area. However, being in an environment where the same challanges are currently happening, change comes slowly. Lets hope they move towards the light.
Let's be pragmatic here. If Dish wait until all the bugs are fixed before releasing the next rev, there won't be another rev.
The 811 is now almost at the stage of maturity that it should have been prior to its release in 2003. It has been a disappointing journey. What we need to be concerned about is if Dish bring out a newer model (8xx or whatever) and lose interest in fixing the 811.
With rev 280, I still get black screen lockups, inconsistent channel recall from OTA to satellite, no program information for OTA's, unreliable locking to digital OTA's, mediocre analog OTA quality, yadadadada. At least some of these can be fixed in software, I hope. Some problems appear to be carryovers from the 6000, which suggests those problems are in the architecture of the design.
Any problem that locks up the 811 and necessitates a reboot should be registered as a top category problem and fixed within days or weeks, not 12 months and waiting
I wish I were part of the 811 beta program, assuming there is one. They need to hear someone give them h*ll and motivate them to fix this d*mn cr*p!!!!
The 811 is now almost at the stage of maturity that it should have been prior to its release in 2003. It has been a disappointing journey. What we need to be concerned about is if Dish bring out a newer model (8xx or whatever) and lose interest in fixing the 811.
With rev 280, I still get black screen lockups, inconsistent channel recall from OTA to satellite, no program information for OTA's, unreliable locking to digital OTA's, mediocre analog OTA quality, yadadadada. At least some of these can be fixed in software, I hope. Some problems appear to be carryovers from the 6000, which suggests those problems are in the architecture of the design.
Any problem that locks up the 811 and necessitates a reboot should be registered as a top category problem and fixed within days or weeks, not 12 months and waiting
I wish I were part of the 811 beta program, assuming there is one. They need to hear someone give them h*ll and motivate them to fix this d*mn cr*p!!!!
GaryPen said:
In the early days of the 811, I asked Dish if I could join the beta program. They told me they had it covered! (but never admitted they did or did not have a beta program). Back then, I hadn't been fully exposed to the future circus of 811 software revisions. I should have asked to be a part of the alpha program. Beta is far too kind.
It is astonishing that the 811 software quality is so poor. Hopefully Dish never go into the pacemaker business.
