From the Frontline: News & Commentary on the "format war"
January 2nd, 2007
Commentary - Are current 1st Gen Bluray Players Obsolete?
EDIT: I got a message from a reader who has added some information, which I have placed at the end of this story at the bottom. Also, the commentary has been somewhat edited, as it has been confirmed that only BD-Video 1.1 will become mandatory for Bluray after June 07, not BD-Live, as was initially indicated!
As many of you know by now, the Bluray launch has not exactly been stellar.
Story, after story, after story have recounted all the various problems and issues surrounding the format and its launch, including repeated postponements of most of the players, postponements of movies, poor quality releases, parts shortages, and more.
However, one aspect of the Bluray saga that has received too little attention, in our view, has been that of the various Java specs and their appearance, or non-appearance in Bluray players to date.
As you know, the mandatory Bluray player specs came up "short" in comparison to the mandatory HD DVD player specs in several key areas, including (1) not being required to decode the advanced audio codecs like Dolby TruHD (DTHD) and Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), (2) not being required to have network ports to enable updates and additional content over the internet, (3) not being required to play "legacy" formats like DVD and Audio CDs.
It has been opined here, and in other media, that this may have been due to the rush to get Bluray players out on the street to try to stop HD DVD from getting a big headstart in the market. Therefore, the first gen Bluray players did not match up to the first gen HD DVD players in their required specifications - specifications that every player must meet in order to sport the HD DVD or Bluray "badge".
Well, add another item to the list. HD DVD players are required to use an advanced programming language called HDi, all HD DVD players released have had to comply with the full HDi spec.. The Bluray counterpart to this is BD-J, a Java-language derivative. BD-J is the "platform" on which the Bluray players run, but the player specifications determine what the players are capable of doing with that BD-J.
However, the first Bluray players to be released only meet a specification profile called BD-Video 1.0. This profile does not require the advanced features tjhat HD DVD players are all capable of, such as Picture in Picture (PiP) commentary, secondary audio decoding, local storage in the player, as well as an Ethernet port for connectivity over the Internet. This left the 1st generation Bluray player sorely lacking in features compared to the HDi specification of the HD DVD minimum player specifications.
So the Bluray camp came up with two other player profiles, called BD-Video 1.1 and BD-Live 2.0. BD-Video 1.1 will require that players must be able to do Pip and secondary audio, as well as requiring that they have a minimum of 256 megs of RAM of onboard storage. BD-Video 1.1 does not, unfortunately, require that the player has an Ethernet port for connecting over the internet. This additional feature is reserved for the BD-Live 2.0 profile. More information can be gained online about these standards (see Java section).
As you probably already know, ALL HD DVD players from the very start have had to fully comply with the HDi spec (and only ONE HDi spec) from the very start. HD DVD movie buyers have already enjoyed the fruits of this STANDARD, with PiP commentary tracks in various movies, and amazing interactive features, such as the real-time map of Tokyo and custom car colors in Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift.. Not only that, HD DVD players are all required to have Network ports too, which have already been used for firmware updates over the internet and will be used in the future for advanced playback options.
Apparently, the Bluray guys thought these were pretty good ideas, so the Bluray disc association has said that all Bluray players sold after June 2007 must meet the BD-Video 1.1 profile, which includes all these items except the Networking. The BD-Live 2.0 spec, which requires the Network support, will remain an "optional" profile for manufacturers. So where does that leave people who bought the first generation of Bluray standalone players out now?
Well, the current players shipping today are only BD-Video 1.0 compliant, with no guarantee of being able to handle the BD-Video 1.1 profile (only the PS3 has been hinted to be upgradeable). And since only one of them (the Pioneer) has a network port, they certainly aren't compliant with the BD-Live 2.0 profile.
A visit to online forums will show bluray fans talking about how current players are BD-Video compliant, and how BD-Video will play all the future titles. Of course they don't mention that there are two BD-Video standards, 1.0 and 1.1 - OR that the 1st Gen Bluray standalone players are only BD-Video 1.0-compliant and may never be able to do the fancy features that HD DVD users have gotten so accustomed to on HDi.
The main problem I see is that so many users who buy a Bluray player today may not realize that a lot of the features they are being shown on promotional videos in the store don't yet exist in any shipping Bluray players, and that the player they buy today may well not be able to handle the BD-Video 1.1 or BD-Live 2.0 profiles. Representatives from the producers of the technology seem to think it is entirely up to the consumer to get the facts before buying, even though Bluray promotional videos do not distinguish the features in each of the progiles and these same representatives acknowledge that there is a lack of information available for the consumers. This has lead some to question or even ridicule the Bluray camp's position. I strongly feel that the potential Bluray buyer is not being told the facts. And where there is published detailed information, it seems it's for Bluray insiders, difficult for the public to get.
So where does that leave anyone who has bought a first generation Bluray player? Could be... in the lurch. And that must be VERY annoying for all those people who bought $1,000 Bluray players, never realizing they didn't have all the features that Bluray has been touting. It's a wonder that some Bluray buyers aren't suing. Even the Bluray site doesn't explain the various Bluray BD-J specs, nor discuss the ability or inabilty of first gen players to comply with future profiles.
On this page on the Bluray site, they say that "Some Blu-ray Disc Players, those with Internet connections can connect to the internet which enables the end user to download additional content to the player’s internal memory, as well as the ability to enjoy unique, “web-enabled” interactive features." They don't mention that that will only be the case if those players are BD-Live-compliant. Pioneer's is one of the few 1st Gen Bluray players with a network port, and EVEN THEY have announced that their player will not do these interactive features. Further, a search on the Bluray site for "BD-Video" comes up blank. How are the buyers supposed to educate themselves?
No wonder Bluray fans keep telling people NOT to buy players until "next year". Well, "next year" is here, but it'll be another six months before Bluray players are required to have these "basic features", apparently...
It's amazing that this issue has not received more coverage, but I'm guessing that this is partly because the BDA have been so reticent to give clear information about the specification situation, leaving many journalists a little wary of guessing. One or two articles have been published discussing this, but the debate is raging in online forums like AVS Forum as to why Sony and the BDA are not being more upfront and honest to consumers about the situation. In my opinion they are seriously exposing themselves to a lot of very disappointed buyers of $1,000 and $1,500 1st Gen Bluray players...
We also hear that BD-Video testing is not formally slated to start until Q2/07 and BD-Live testing won't start till Q3/07, leading to speculation that one or both of them may ship later than anticipated.
Good thing HD DVD doesn't leave you in the lurch with these features, eh?... It's nice having just the ONE standard for HD DVD players from the very start!
http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_BD_1G_Obsolete.html
January 2nd, 2007
Commentary - Are current 1st Gen Bluray Players Obsolete?
EDIT: I got a message from a reader who has added some information, which I have placed at the end of this story at the bottom. Also, the commentary has been somewhat edited, as it has been confirmed that only BD-Video 1.1 will become mandatory for Bluray after June 07, not BD-Live, as was initially indicated!
As many of you know by now, the Bluray launch has not exactly been stellar.
Story, after story, after story have recounted all the various problems and issues surrounding the format and its launch, including repeated postponements of most of the players, postponements of movies, poor quality releases, parts shortages, and more.
However, one aspect of the Bluray saga that has received too little attention, in our view, has been that of the various Java specs and their appearance, or non-appearance in Bluray players to date.
As you know, the mandatory Bluray player specs came up "short" in comparison to the mandatory HD DVD player specs in several key areas, including (1) not being required to decode the advanced audio codecs like Dolby TruHD (DTHD) and Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), (2) not being required to have network ports to enable updates and additional content over the internet, (3) not being required to play "legacy" formats like DVD and Audio CDs.
It has been opined here, and in other media, that this may have been due to the rush to get Bluray players out on the street to try to stop HD DVD from getting a big headstart in the market. Therefore, the first gen Bluray players did not match up to the first gen HD DVD players in their required specifications - specifications that every player must meet in order to sport the HD DVD or Bluray "badge".
Well, add another item to the list. HD DVD players are required to use an advanced programming language called HDi, all HD DVD players released have had to comply with the full HDi spec.. The Bluray counterpart to this is BD-J, a Java-language derivative. BD-J is the "platform" on which the Bluray players run, but the player specifications determine what the players are capable of doing with that BD-J.
However, the first Bluray players to be released only meet a specification profile called BD-Video 1.0. This profile does not require the advanced features tjhat HD DVD players are all capable of, such as Picture in Picture (PiP) commentary, secondary audio decoding, local storage in the player, as well as an Ethernet port for connectivity over the Internet. This left the 1st generation Bluray player sorely lacking in features compared to the HDi specification of the HD DVD minimum player specifications.
So the Bluray camp came up with two other player profiles, called BD-Video 1.1 and BD-Live 2.0. BD-Video 1.1 will require that players must be able to do Pip and secondary audio, as well as requiring that they have a minimum of 256 megs of RAM of onboard storage. BD-Video 1.1 does not, unfortunately, require that the player has an Ethernet port for connecting over the internet. This additional feature is reserved for the BD-Live 2.0 profile. More information can be gained online about these standards (see Java section).
As you probably already know, ALL HD DVD players from the very start have had to fully comply with the HDi spec (and only ONE HDi spec) from the very start. HD DVD movie buyers have already enjoyed the fruits of this STANDARD, with PiP commentary tracks in various movies, and amazing interactive features, such as the real-time map of Tokyo and custom car colors in Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift.. Not only that, HD DVD players are all required to have Network ports too, which have already been used for firmware updates over the internet and will be used in the future for advanced playback options.
Apparently, the Bluray guys thought these were pretty good ideas, so the Bluray disc association has said that all Bluray players sold after June 2007 must meet the BD-Video 1.1 profile, which includes all these items except the Networking. The BD-Live 2.0 spec, which requires the Network support, will remain an "optional" profile for manufacturers. So where does that leave people who bought the first generation of Bluray standalone players out now?
Well, the current players shipping today are only BD-Video 1.0 compliant, with no guarantee of being able to handle the BD-Video 1.1 profile (only the PS3 has been hinted to be upgradeable). And since only one of them (the Pioneer) has a network port, they certainly aren't compliant with the BD-Live 2.0 profile.
A visit to online forums will show bluray fans talking about how current players are BD-Video compliant, and how BD-Video will play all the future titles. Of course they don't mention that there are two BD-Video standards, 1.0 and 1.1 - OR that the 1st Gen Bluray standalone players are only BD-Video 1.0-compliant and may never be able to do the fancy features that HD DVD users have gotten so accustomed to on HDi.
The main problem I see is that so many users who buy a Bluray player today may not realize that a lot of the features they are being shown on promotional videos in the store don't yet exist in any shipping Bluray players, and that the player they buy today may well not be able to handle the BD-Video 1.1 or BD-Live 2.0 profiles. Representatives from the producers of the technology seem to think it is entirely up to the consumer to get the facts before buying, even though Bluray promotional videos do not distinguish the features in each of the progiles and these same representatives acknowledge that there is a lack of information available for the consumers. This has lead some to question or even ridicule the Bluray camp's position. I strongly feel that the potential Bluray buyer is not being told the facts. And where there is published detailed information, it seems it's for Bluray insiders, difficult for the public to get.
So where does that leave anyone who has bought a first generation Bluray player? Could be... in the lurch. And that must be VERY annoying for all those people who bought $1,000 Bluray players, never realizing they didn't have all the features that Bluray has been touting. It's a wonder that some Bluray buyers aren't suing. Even the Bluray site doesn't explain the various Bluray BD-J specs, nor discuss the ability or inabilty of first gen players to comply with future profiles.
On this page on the Bluray site, they say that "Some Blu-ray Disc Players, those with Internet connections can connect to the internet which enables the end user to download additional content to the player’s internal memory, as well as the ability to enjoy unique, “web-enabled” interactive features." They don't mention that that will only be the case if those players are BD-Live-compliant. Pioneer's is one of the few 1st Gen Bluray players with a network port, and EVEN THEY have announced that their player will not do these interactive features. Further, a search on the Bluray site for "BD-Video" comes up blank. How are the buyers supposed to educate themselves?
No wonder Bluray fans keep telling people NOT to buy players until "next year". Well, "next year" is here, but it'll be another six months before Bluray players are required to have these "basic features", apparently...
It's amazing that this issue has not received more coverage, but I'm guessing that this is partly because the BDA have been so reticent to give clear information about the specification situation, leaving many journalists a little wary of guessing. One or two articles have been published discussing this, but the debate is raging in online forums like AVS Forum as to why Sony and the BDA are not being more upfront and honest to consumers about the situation. In my opinion they are seriously exposing themselves to a lot of very disappointed buyers of $1,000 and $1,500 1st Gen Bluray players...
We also hear that BD-Video testing is not formally slated to start until Q2/07 and BD-Live testing won't start till Q3/07, leading to speculation that one or both of them may ship later than anticipated.
Good thing HD DVD doesn't leave you in the lurch with these features, eh?... It's nice having just the ONE standard for HD DVD players from the very start!
http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_BD_1G_Obsolete.html
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