129 Coming soon to a dish near you!

[Scott Greczkowski]

LIL HD will indeed go to 129.

Now if Dish could figure out a way for their SD receivers to view HD programs they could get rid of the SD versions of the LIL's the carry which would open up bandwidth on the 119 and 110 birds.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

No, I don't want my HD on 129. I want all of the national HD channels to be on 110 or 119. They can put LIL HD on 129, as millions of people won't even need that as they can get their locals in HD for free.

I would love a solution where one would need only a Dish 500 to get all English-language national channels, both SD and HD. If this were true, I'd never put up a Dish 1000.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Tom I am with you, I am not even sure if I can get 129 from my place, 129 will be hard to hit on the East Coast.

I just spoke with someone about 129 and the Dish 1000 and that is definately the plan for 129 as told to me by the contact.

I was also told that we could exect to see the Dish 100 available in just a few weeks if everything goes good.

 

[rocatman]

LyngSat is reporting that E-5 has arrived at 129 W. In regards to HD LIL from 129 W, of the top 20 U.S. markets, the only ones that would have problems in terms of low elelvation angles are N.Y., Boston, Philadelphia and maybe Wahington, D.C. These markets could be put on 61.5 W especially with the expected FCC approval of the R-1 acquisition which should occur by September 1. If N.Y. is offered as a distant net, it could be squeezed onto 110 W right now using primarily TP 19.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

While 61.5 is certainly an alternative, I don't consider that a good alternative for Dish to implement. The East Coast is a very large, influential market. It is a highly urban market, i.e, many apartment dwellers and people with small lot sizes and obstructed views. To take on DTV in that market with a two-dish solution, would be deadly for Dish.

Perhaps they will try to squeeze in the HD LILs for NYC, Boston, Philly & DC on 110 & 119 in order to avoid a two-dish solution for those markets.

I would hate to be a Dish installer in Boston if DTV had a one-dish solution while I had to install separate 61.5 and 110/119 dishes. That would be a very hard sell.

 

[rocatman]

While 61.5 is certainly an alternative, I don't consider that a good alternative for Dish to implement. The East Coast is a very large, influential market. It is a highly urban market, i.e, many apartment dwellers and people with small lot sizes and obstructed views. To take on DTV in that market with a two-dish solution, would be deadly for Dish.

Perhaps they will try to squeeze in the HD LILs for NYC, Boston, Philly & DC on 110 & 119 in order to avoid a two-dish solution for those markets.

I would hate to be a Dish installer in Boston if DTV had a one-dish solution while I had to install separate 61.5 and 110/119 dishes. That would be a very hard sell.

The launch of E-10 will probably free up some TPs on 110/119 so what you propose may be possible. You mentioned DirecTV's one-dish solution but if it is a 36 inch dish, I think many folks would rather have a D500 and a D300 then a dish that big. Certainly Dish will have an advantage in markets where they can offer HD LIL with a D1000 which appears to be around 24 inches over DirecTV's 36 inch monster. Even if Dish puts HD LILs on 118.7 W using AMC-16 or Anik F3, they will still have an advantage over DirecTV on dish size since a Superdish is only about 30 inches.

 

[James Long]

E5 is not a spot beam bird.

E5 also isn't the final solution for 129. There will be another satellite there eventually ... perhaps something creative with US spotbeams and Canadian spotbeams?

The list of non-spot LIL satellite slots is impressive. It isn't completely out of the question to put LIL on conus beams - Their are LILs on 110, 105, 121, 61.5 and 148 that are on conus beams. (The ones on 110 are likely to move to spots when E10 arrives.) Why not use 129 for LIL - initially SD and eventually HD (as all channels will be moving to HD)?

JL

 

[kavula]

I think the last few posts are on to something. A lot of DMA's on 110/119/148 (probably not 61.5) can be moved to 129 or E10 spots at 110 [right?]. That could free up enough space on 110/119 so that E* can offer lots of national HD and locals could be moved off 61.5. However, that kind of defeats the point of E* buying R1, so I dunno. Anyway, my little vision would probably solve E*'s one satellite dish solution delimma. E10 frees up space with its spots, but probably 5 or so HD DMA's will be ConUS for distant digitals.

 

[rocatman]

E5 also isn't the final solution for 129. There will be another satellite there eventually ... perhaps something creative with US spotbeams and Canadian spotbeams?

The list of non-spot LIL satellite slots is impressive. It isn't completely out of the question to put LIL on conus beams - Their are LILs on 110, 105, 121, 61.5 and 148 that are on conus beams. (The ones on 110 are likely to move to spots when E10 arrives.) Why not use 129 for LIL - initially SD and eventually HD (as all channels will be moving to HD)?

JL

Yes, E-5 is just a temporary (3 year) solution at 129 W. I wouldn't rule out two satellites being place there eventually and I have posted elsewhere E-7 could be moved there and use its spotbeams once E-10 is operational.

I don't see Dish putting SD LILs on 129 W unless they were to move locals off of 110/119 to make room for more national HD or E-10 is significantly delayed or it can not solve all of Dish's single dish for all locals in a market problem. As noted in my previous post, a D1000 dish gives Dish a big marketing advantage over DirecTV's 36 inch HD dish. The future competition battleground is HD and LIL is a big part of that as it has been for SD. Dish will try to use the D1000 advantage to gain the upperhand in the HD competition. In addition, the markets that Dish does not offer SD LILs are relatively small with few subscribers to gain by providing locals.

 

[Derwin0]

Don't forget, the Dish 1000 (110/119/129) counts as a one dish solution. So Dish could move split locals over to 129 to comply with the new law.

 

[rocatman]

Don't forget, the Dish 1000 (110/119/129) counts as a one dish solution. So Dish could move split locals over to 129 to comply with the new law.

Dish could also put them at 105, 118.7 or 121. I believe the problem is that the SHREVA legislation requires that a subscriber has to have the equipment to receive all their locals on a single dish. So Dish would have to install D1000s for all subscribers who want their locals in markets where they have moved the split locals to 129. This would be very costly and Dish may lose customers in the process. Dish has until May 2006 to comply and I think they will wait until E-10 is launched and fix it then.

 

[larrystotler]

Don't forget, the Dish 1000 (110/119/129) counts as a one dish solution. So Dish could move split locals over to 129 to comply with the new law.

There is no 1 DISH requirement. The requirement is that ALL analog locals be available from a single slot(and they will have to quit splitting them because if they do a 119/129 split and some customers refuse to upgrade E* is still not in compliance). And then ALL Digital/HD LiLs can be on a different slot. They can do a 61.5/110/119/148 for all the FCC cares so long as each DMA is availbale from 1 slot. The 61.5 could be analog LiL and the 148 could be digital LiLs.

 

[MikeD-C05]

It might not be a requirement for the programming on one dish , but it would be very attractive if you could receive all your national , hd and locals on one dish 1000. Especially to home owners associations , customers etc. I think having all these dishes to get your normal programming is a detriment for Dish. Directv uses mostly a single dish and so should Dish . If not this will definately work against Dish when they start adding hd locals . I personally have two dishes because of the Voom channels , but I will be glad when they move them all to the main Dish 500 . IF a Dish 1000 would accomplish this I would be all for it.

I wouldn't be surpised if Dish just moved the extra locals split onto the 61.5 and 148 sats to say 129 and give all people in the 36 markets affected a Dish 1000 instead. Then they wouldn't have to move around the main channels already on 110/119 slots. They would "technically" be incompliance with the Fcc rule for one dish for locals . It sure would be the way they have operated in the past in regards to the Fcc .

 

[James Long]

There is no 1 DISH requirement.

Yes, there is (effective May 2006). The wording of the law is not all locals from "the same slot" or "the same satellite". It is all (analog) locals from "a single reception antenna". (Which can be separate from dish(es) receiving non-local channels.)

47 USC Chapter 5
Sec. 338. Carriage of local television signals by satellite carriers

(g) CARRIAGE OF LOCAL STATIONS ON A SINGLE DISH.—

(1) SINGLE DISH.—

Each satellite carrier that retransmits the analog signals of local television broadcast stations in a local market shall retransmit such analog signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment.​

JL

 

[BCH]

Based on the regulation posted above, it appears E* could turn this into a non issue by transmitting the digital, not necessarily HD, signal from local broadcast stations. The regulation only covers analog signals. I would guess that the majority of local broadcasters, especially in major markets, have been broadcasting digital signals for quite some time since the original deadline for conversion was 2006.

 

[James Long]

Digital signals are covered elsewhere. While E*, D* and cable have picked up a few digitally provided TV stations they are under no FCC obligation to carry them. In some areas other analog channels (in particular low powered co-owned stations) are mirrored on the primary station DT feeds (as a sub channel) to get the signals to willing cable providers. There are a lot of stations who do NOT show their SD feed on their digital transmissions.

E* carries the SD feed picked up over the air from the NTSC analog broadcast or on a direct feed from the station. Eventually they will carry the ATSC feeds - E* only wants to be required to carry the primary ATSC DT feed of each station and be allowed to downconvert the feeds. DTs *CAN* be carried on a second dish.

JL

 

[Smith P.]

I'm just check with spectrum analyzer the 129 slot - I saw a coulpe low power picks at IF 860 MHZ and 920 MHz; they are looks different then regular mux, could be telemeric data.
BTW, latest DP301 software P2.43 doesn't have the 129 or 118K satellites.

 

[Derwin0]

There is no 1 DISH requirement. The requirement is that ALL analog locals be available from a single slot(and they will have to quit splitting them because if they do a 119/129 split and some customers refuse to upgrade E* is still not in compliance).

No, the requirement is a single dish. If not, then Denver (both 110 and 119) violates it.
And upgrading customers to a Dish 1000 is no more expensive than a second dish for 61.5 which they currently have to do.

 

[larrystotler]

Yes, there is (effective May 2006). The wording of the law is not all locals from "the same slot" or "the same satellite". It is all (analog) locals from "a single reception antenna". (Which can be separate from dish(es) receiving non-local channels.)

Correct. Single antenna for Locals. The point I was making is that everyone assmues that this is for ALL programming. The FFC rules has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY programming EXPECT LiL.

It might not be a requirement for the programming on one dish , but it would be very attractive if you could receive all your national , hd and locals on one dish 1000.

I agree wholeheartedly. However, D* does make use of the 72.5 in 24 markets. And, with Sat Internet, unfortunately you have a need for more than 1 location or dish. I always recommend a seperate dish for say Starband or DirectWay and the DBS providers. You actually get less rainfade because those FSS dishes are not optimized for the DBS signals.

No, the requirement is a single dish. If not, then Denver (both 110 and 119) violates it.
And upgrading customers to a Dish 1000 is no more expensive than a second dish for 61.5 which they currently have to do.

So long as E* can do a Single antenna, then technically there are in compliance. However, all there has to be is 1 customer who does NOT have a D500 in this market and E* can end up in trouble. It makes more sense if the do the LiL shuffle when E10 is launched and just have ALL locals from a single market on 1 sat.

 

[bcshields]

Just because it makes sense and is the the easiest way to legally skirt the issue, it doesn't mean Dish will do it. They have a stubborn way of doing things how they want it and to hell with anyone else.

They might argue the sole person with a D300 in the Denver market waived their rights to all the channels when they 'refused' to upgrade, whether by LOS issues or placement problems, etc.

Just sayin.... they rarely do what makes sense first.