Which dish size?

[corey006]

Hi,

First post here.

I am currently running:

39"/1 meter Fortec
SG2100
Inv. QPH-031
SonicView 8000HD


I am @ 54 N and 101 W.

I am having trouble with weak signal and missing transponders.

My true south sat is AMC 4. I can get 40-50 % on 2 transponders but nothing else. This is with my motor almost zeroed.(centered). I have tried to tweak elevation and 40-50% is best I can come up with.

I am tracking the arc and have found a few Linear birds 1 was Galaxy 3.

I am pretty sure I am tracking arc because I have hit around 10-12 circular sat. but I am having trouble with Linears.

The sat I am most interested in is Galaxy 10r @ 123 W. I am pretty sure I have gotten to the right spot as my S: value peaks where G 10 should be but I am un-able to lock onto it.

I am red-dot in this map...according to this a 90cm should work but I think Sadoun's info is more correct.

According to Sadoun's dish size info I would need a 40 dBW which would be 138 cms.

ANY thoughts on proper dish size for my location?


Also any opinions on which is better make of dish.

Fortec

GeosatPro

ChannelMaster( I am leaning towards on of these) if I can find one?


Thanx in advance.

 

[Anole]

Some people have reported the extra weight of the QPH-031 bends the LNB support when aiming far east or west.
You might see if that could or could not be a contributing factor.

Some northern users have given up on smaller dishes and moved to 6' .
At the time, I thought that was a bit extreme and only bring up the idea for further discussion.

One member (jsattv) had trouble with wind whipping his 1m Fortec, possible trouble with his motor, and difficulty doing vertical or elevation adjustment on his dish.
That discussion is covered in these three threads:
* http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...-tune-1-meter-fortec-star-dish-elevation.html
* http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...-re-fine-tuning-1-meter-fortec-star-dish.html
* http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...-storm-now-midband-sats-only-need-advice.html
Not saying you should follow in his foot steps, but it might be a good read, and give you ideas. -

As for dishes, I'd like a 1m or 1.2m Primestar (molded) dish if you could find one.
Also, make sure the motor tube that the dish mounts to is sturdy - the 2100 guys have a larger tube available.

 

[schlever]

A fellow Saskatchewanite! Welcome to the world of FTA.

I get everything fine here in Regina with 36" digiwave dish on a dg240 motor, so you should be able to get good signals with a 39" where you are.

A few things to look at:

1) Your pole is perfectly plumb - I was off by a bit and it really made the difference when I brought it into plumb
2) You may be a bit off on the azumith for AMC4 - try moving it by 1/16" right or left
3) Elevation readings on the dishes are just for reference, you need to peak it on your true south first.
4) Any trees or anything in the way? I taped my laser level to my lnb support arm and turned it on and moved through the arc. You'd be amazed where the red dot showed up
4) If your using USALS, sometimes you need to play with the settings in the box to peak the signal. For me, I have G10 set a 124.1W instead of 123.0W, thats just where my signal peaks.

Hope that helps.

 

[corey006]

I do have to re-do my mount as not 100% plumb and not as strong as it needs to be. Has been too darn cold here...-42 celcius 2 days ago and still -32 celcius this morning.

I was looking at bracket one of the members made for Tweaking his elevation. This will help with fine-tuning elevation.

I can build this pretty easy.

Regina is pretty far south of me....900 kms to be exact...so I think 1 meter is going to be too small to hit all transponders on AMC 4 or G 10.

I can pick-up circular birds pretty easy on both sides of center of the arc BUT my linears are very weak.

I am pretty sure I am BANG-ON the Clarke Belt Arc.

For example.

I can hit Nimiq 2(82 W)@ 99%, and I can hit Echostar 1,2(148W) @ 99%...



I am going to re-do my pole, make elevation tweak bracket, reset SG2100 to zero and start from scratch.

If I do all of this and I still don't get adequate signal on G10 I am going to goto a mininum 1.2 m and maybe a 1.8 meter dish.

Thanx for the help guys.

 

[corey006]

I found a 1.2 meter Andrew dish for $249( I can pick it up in city)

I think I am just going to pick it up...and try it.

I am pretty sure I can sell the Fortec 1 meter.


Will SG2100 handle the 1.2 meter Andrews(Channel Master I think)?

If not ...Stab HH 120 best option?


Thanx.

 

[schlever]

I do have to re-do my mount as not 100% plumb and not as strong as it needs to be. Has been too darn cold here...-42 celcius 2 days ago and still -32 celcius this morning.

I was looking at bracket one of the members made for Tweaking his elevation. This will help with fine-tuning elevation.

I can build this pretty easy.

Regina is pretty far south of me....900 kms to be exact...so I think 1 meter is going to be too small to hit all transponders on AMC 4 or G 10.

I can pick-up circular birds pretty easy on both sides of center of the arc BUT my linears are very weak.

I am pretty sure I am BANG-ON the Clarke Belt Arc.

For example.

I can hit Nimiq 2(82 W)@ 99%, and I can hit Echostar 1,2(148W) @ 99%...



I am going to re-do my pole, make elevation tweak bracket, reset SG2100 to zero and start from scratch.

If I do all of this and I still don't get adequate signal on G10 I am going to goto a mininum 1.2 m and maybe a 1.8 meter dish.

Thanx for the help guys.

Where are you exactly ... that may help? 900 KM north sounds like Cumberland House??

 

[Anole]

I found a 1.2 meter Andrew dish for $249( I can pick it up in city)
I think I am just going to pick it up...and try it.
I am pretty sure I can sell the Fortec 1 meter.

Will SG2100 handle the 1.2 meter Andrews(Channel Master I think)?
If not ...Stab HH 120 best option?

It's amazing what the members here have done over the years.
There are threads about putting pretty big/heavy Primestar dishes (much like your Andrew) on SG2100 motors.
Some of the tricks include using a larger motor tube that's available, and removing the original mount from the rear of the dish to reduce weight.
I would only consider pursuing the 2100, if I were willing to do both!

As for bigger motors, there's the STAB 120 that you mentioned.
And I think Fortec imports STAB, and has offices and sales in Canada, so that might be a factor.
Otherwise, both Sadoun and SatelliteAV offer heavy duty motors, but I couldn't offer any personal advice relative to the three sources.
(...other that I've been pleased doing business with the latter two...) - :up

You didn't say if wind was a problem, but if you can get a clear view of the southern sky, I'd put the dish at about shoulder level on the ground, and not on a roof, just to make it easier for adjustment and repairs.

If you would like to post a few pictures, I'm sure that'd get you even more feedback.
We do love a good picture!

 

[Mr Tony]

it is possible that you are not on the arc. Circular satellites are easier to get as they are higher powered.

Linear satellites are lower powered (hence the need for the bigger dish)

 

[Mr Tony]

54N 101W puts you near The Pas, MB

I know of a few members who have dishes that are tracking the arc just fine that far north

 

[corey006]

Where are you exactly ... that may help? 900 KM north sounds like Cumberland House??

Creighton/FLin Flon is where I am at....

Long way from Regina.

I am also about 150 kms or 100 miles N of The Pas.


Wind will BE a problem. I have to mount dish on my roof because of buildings blocking view. No way to get around this...unless I can convince my neighbor to move his house?

There is on tree about 200 yards south of me that may be in my way...I will try your lazer idea and see if branches are in the way.

I am correct in assuming that on Offset dish the signal comes in at 22 deg higher that pan....or.... at same angle of LNB bracket?

Thanx for the help guys.

 

[qwert1515]

I am correct in assuming that on Offset dish the signal comes in at 22 deg higher that pan....or.... at same angle of LNB bracket?

Yes, where it looks like the dish is pointing plus 22 degrees is where it is actually pointing, it is approximately the same as the LNB bracket depending on the dish.

EDIT - If your estimation of 200 yards is correct (about 600 ft):

Your true South satellite (101.0°W) has a elevation of 28.4°.
The satellite that is in the middle of the Eastern horizon and true South satellite is around (63.0°W) with an elevation of 19.4°.

So if the tree is due South the tree would have to be (200 Yards * Tan(28.4°)) or 108 Yards tall (325 ft tall).
If the tree is at the half point of your arc (between the Eastern satellite and your true South satellite (also the same for the West side)) the tree would have to be (200 Yards * Tan(19.4°)) or 71 Yards tall (212 ft tall).

So if you have a tree plus a hill that is under 212 ft higher than your dish the tree should not be in the way.

 

[schlever]

Flin Flon, gotta be a Bomber fan then! Grew up in Yorkton, so will always be a Terrier fan ..... at least your not from Melville

 

[bloomdog]

I found a 1.2 meter Andrew dish for $249( I can pick it up in city)

I think I am just going to pick it up...and try it.

I am pretty sure I can sell the Fortec 1 meter.


Will SG2100 handle the 1.2 meter Andrews(Channel Master I think)?

If not ...Stab HH 120 best option?


Thanx.

See my thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/103148-fingers-crossed-my-cm-1-2-m.html

 

[Davage]

It's amazing what the members here have done over the years.
There are threads about putting pretty big/heavy Primestar dishes (much like your Andrew) on SG2100 motors.
Some of the tricks include using a larger motor tube that's available, and removing the original mount from the rear of the dish to reduce weight.
I would only consider pursuing the 2100, if I were willing to do both!

It's amazing what us crazy Canadians will to, just to be able to watch the SuperBowl with the US Commercials instead of being stuck watching the same "Canadian Tire" commercials over and over and over...
:

 

[schlever]

It's amazing what us crazy Canadians will to, just to be able to watch the SuperBowl with the US Commercials instead of being stuck watching the same "Canadian Tire" commercials over and over and over...
:

Ain't that the truth! Now if I could only get rid of those annoying Leafs games every Saturday on HNIC ...... the dish hasn't quite helped with that yet

 

[Anole]

counterpoint

This seller in the UK badmouths USALS motors for big dishes.
He has a point of view, and whether he's just interested in selling expensive equipment or not, it might be worth a read.
Scroll down toward the bottom where he talks about DISEQC motors.

I have seen his site before, but ran across it just now while looking for other motors for you.
I was going to point out that Sadoun carries Fortec 6' prime focus dishes, both with and without polar mounts, as well as suitable motors and controllers.
If using the H180 motor, you'd get the dish withOUT the polar mount.
If you used a jackscrew motor, you'd get the dish WITH the polar mount.
In either case, you'd need a motor controller like this Gbox 3000 to run the motor.

I don't have a big dish, a big motor, nor a big wind to contend with.
... but I do a lot of research, reading, and pay attention to what the guys here on the forum say.
Just wanted to bring up some alternatives.

Oh, and with a proper mount, it's possible to run that 1.2m Andrew on a jackscrew or H180 motor, if you like.

 

[corey006]

This seller in the UK badmouths USALS motors for big dishes.
He has a point of view, and whether he's just interested in selling expensive equipment or not, it might be worth a read.
Scroll down toward the bottom where he talks about DISEQC motors.

I have seen his site before, but ran across it just now while looking for other motors for you.
I was going to point out that Sadoun carries Fortec 6' prime focus dishes, both with and without polar mounts, as well as suitable motors and controllers.
If using the H180 motor, you'd get the dish withOUT the polar mount.
If you used a jackscrew motor, you'd get the dish WITH the polar mount.
In either case, you'd need a motor controller like this Gbox 3000 to run the motor.

I don't have a big dish, a big motor, nor a big wind to contend with.
... but I do a lot of research, reading, and pay attention to what the guys here on the forum say.
Just wanted to bring up some alternatives.

Oh, and with a proper mount, it's possible to run that 1.2m Andrew on a jackscrew or H180 motor, if you like.

Thank Your very much...:


I re-did my mounting pole today.

It is ROCK solid and perfectly plumb and so far I have gotten about the same quality on AMC 4.

There is ZERO chance of this pole bending or twisting...it is a thick walled 2 3/8" black pipe which goes right through my roof and I have it U-bolted through the truss rafter in 3 locations.

I know now I need at least a 1.2 meter dish(I am NOT convinced this will even work)...iI may need a 1.8....I am going to start looking at options.

What about an old C-band 6 foot dish. I may be able to get my hands on one. I realize I will need to get a V-BoxII controller to run actuator and a adapter bracket for LNB. Anything else I need to make a old C-Band work???

Thanx again guys...:up

 

[Anole]

. . . been thinkin' . . .

Just my opinion from a lot of reading,,,, but ....

* I don't think a used mesh 6' BUD is a particularly good idea.
- some of 'em aren't rated for Ku, using too large a mesh
- many of 'em wouldn't have an accurate surface to focus Ku so well
- being old 'n used, they're subject to more inaccuracies
- you would have to deal with the short focal length, restricting your choices of LNB

* I worry about any 6' dish up above your house in the wind.
- talk to some folks here who have the 6' Fortec solid dishes and see what they think about its construction, durability, and wind resistance.

* If you were to get a 6' Fortec, I have rethought the mount idea, and believe you'd be better off with the Polar Mount and a jackscrew than the H-180, due to potential wind load.
- just my opinion

* From a lot of reading, I'd put my money on the molded Andrew 1.2m dish you were looking at.
- hope others will chime in with their opinions and comments.
- you could test-drive it as as non-motorized fixed dish, first
- for motorizing it, I would again lean toward a polar mount with a 24" jackscrew and Gbox 3000
- overkill, but again I am worried about your gale-force winds
- I realize finding a polar mount might be a problem.

All contrary views are welcome.
I just want the OP to have a successful system that survives in his hostile environment.

 

[corey006]

It sucks that I have to go with roof mount but due to my lot lay-out, limited space between house and garage and numerous obstacles the only chance I have of clear shot at south horizon is from my roof.


I am going to pick-up the 1.2 Andrews(Channel Master) in about a week.

Going to cost me $254 but I won't have to worry about shipping charges.

I have allready found a buyer for my 1 meter Fortec for close to what I paid for it...so I am sure if the 1.2 Andrews is a flop I could sell it too and upgrade to bigger dish.

I agree about the quality of Fortecs...they seem a little wobbly and sway/wiggle quite a bit in the wind. We don't get gale force winds where I live but we do get the odd rogue plow wind and I could see a Fortec being bent in half.


Another dish I think would suit me is Patriot 1.5 meter....

How would the Patriot stack up against Andrews for quality and strength?

What do you guys think about a 1.5 meter(4.9 foot) Patriot up on the roof. I am planning on shingling my roof this Spring so I could make a beefier mount. Which I could hide underneath my new shingles.

What is available for Diseqc 1.2 motors that work well with 1.2-1.5 meter dishes? ( besides STAB HH120).

I think my SG-2100 would move the Andrews dish but definitely will not move the 1.5 Patriot.

 

[ken2400]

When I go for 123 W I like to hit 121W and get the barker channel. Then move the dish to the right just a bit until I loss signal. Then rescan.
Also on 121 W try to adjust the skew of the LNB, turn right or left for the best signal.

Good luck!