Yet another enthusiastic newbie with wild ideas ;-)

[CharredPC]

I'm (obviously) new to this hobby and forum (hi all!), but I've been reading here for the past two days, and finally feel intelligent enough to be laughed at ;-) Actually, you guys seem great; helpful, and not prone to flaming even newbies like me...

Here's my situation: I'm in Orem, Utah (roughly 40° 13' N, 111° 43' W). I've been using standard VHF/UHF broadcast reception from a single-story roof arial. Raising it 5 feet and replacing the 20-year-old wiring didn't help much; it just plain bites. It's very luck-of-the-draw anyhow, really, as broadcast usually is... occassionally we enjoy the major networks (FOX or CBS) for certain favorite shows but usually end up watching whatever mindless dribble is on TV. My point is, we're not altogether picky on what selection we get, as long as it's more than the pitiful 6 fuzzy channels we get now. I stumbled across FTA recieving, and the geek-project-loving-do-it-yourself part of me took over. I'm a computer geek at heart, so after doing some research, I bought this little setup today for $95 including shipping:

Twinhan 102G PCI Satellite Card
Inline Powered Amplifier (16-20db gain)
4X1 DiSEQc Switch
Two (2) Metal 75Ohm Terminator Caps for any unused Ports
SF-95 Signal Meter (tone and beep, Backlit)

Now, I have a DirecTV dish already on the house (was there when I bought it). From what I've read, this is about as useful as a coat hanger for FTA. I'm hoping it may at least work enough to let me test the TwinHan card I bought; if not, well, I have to get a better dish/lnb anyhow. After reading up here, and checking out lyngsat, it looks like C-Band people have all the fun. They get the major network streams, and in some ways tuning in satellites is easier than with Ku; though I'd much rather have both. Being a do-it-myself'er, I immediately went to google for plans on building my own satellite dish. After all, if people in (where was it, India?) can assemble working ones out of old cans and scrap metal, I should be able to whip up a better one out of a few trips to Home Depot, right? Well, I can't find any plans. I only know that 4.5' is absolute minimum for C-band reception, and 6' or better is.. well, better. Even if I had to purchase the lnb seperately off ebay, and just build the dish itself- fine. But no, can't fnd anything. Even thought, how about extending on my little DirecTV dish with curved wood and mesh wire, giving a bigger circumfirance, then extending the lnb arm out to compensate? (Any ideas?)

So for now, back to buying a C/Ku band dish. All the 5' ones I can find (even the 6' ones, actually) on ebay are Ku only. Would slapping a C-band lnb next to the Ku one function, with some fine tuning? I'm keeping an eye open (though I think the wife will kill me, as we have very little yard space) for one of the BUD dishes in somone's yard, etc, but I'm doubting I'll find one. I'll check around tommorrow. Normally I'd use ebay, but shipping sort of deters that, and as I said... can't find a smaller version that also handles C band.

So, sorry for being so long-winded, but I guess the basics are:

1) Is it possile to build a dish, modify an existing one, or order one off the web somewhere that handles both C and Ku, doesn't cost as much as my car or look like it belongs to NASA? ;-) Keep in mind I have to balance between how happy the wife will be about having some nice, clear, digital TV to watch vs her killing me for installing a monstrous dish in our 10' x 16' backyard!

2) Based on my location, and saying I have a fairly clear view of the southern sky (the DirecTV dish pulls in a great signal; I tested it once, though I know those aren't the satellites I'd be using) what are my chances of some halfway decent programming, with and without C band? I read in one post I'd get a handful of channels on Ku (after replacing the DirecTV lnb with a generic one) and some music channels, but nothing very exciting. That post was a year old though, I think, and I know FTA availability changes... I realize if I want the major networks, C-band is a must.

3) Has anyone used this particular card (Twinhan VisionPlus 102G PCI Card) for FTA viewing before? If not, when I get something running, I'd be happy to give everyone a review on it. Speaking of which, if somone has some homemade antenna ideas for me, I'll happily document that as well (have the digital camera and webspace ready!) for others to benefit from.

Thanks for bearing with my humungous first posting, TIA for any and all advice... and hi, my name's Michael ;-)

 

[Cascade]

Best first post, ever.

It's 5:21AM, I have a splitting headache and need caffiene.
Modifying a DirecTV dish isn't practical for what you're trying to do, the focal point on that dish is set so making the dish wider/taller would have no effect (Although we've all had the idea at one point) and buying a DBS LNB (The DirecTV/DishNet standard) would simply be a waste of money, there are far better stations on the real FTA satellites that you won't be able to pick up with it.

As for your clear view of the sky, firstly I'd like to kill you (I have trees a plenty and that makes me jealous).
Secondly, you shouldn't have a problem hitting a great sat which is Galaxy10R, it carries Fox, The Tube as well as other decent channels, all in great quality.
You will definitely need a 76cm or larger dish to be able to pull in the decent sats but these days you can pick a decent pan up without breaking the bank.
If I were you I wouldn't skimp on the quality of dish you buy, IMO the best dish you can buy round these 'ere parts is the WineGard, it won't flex if you cough near it and it's built to last. (See my private message on a very reliable source).

At the moment I'd stick with Ku with your Twinhan, C-Band can be more problematic and bigger isn't always better.
You made a good choice with your Twinhan card, you will need a software DVD decoder to get a picture as well as a PC with more than 800MHz under the hood.

I'm sure someone else will offer their opinions on what to look for etc, we all have different tastes in gear and variety is the spice of life.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum

 

[PSB]

Hello Utah ! Welcome to the forum! I agree with Cascade the bigger the dish you can find the BETTER. Maybe you can sniff around hotels / motels where they have some BIG dish that are no longer in use and are free if you ask nicely : )

Being so far north it may also be an idea to invert (turn upside down) the dish (works for very low elevations) here is a link with some pictures and ideas, welcome to a great hobby!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=25425&highlight=upside+dish

 

[CharredPC]

I doubt 'Best First Post,' but thank you ;-)

Good luck on the headache. Caffiene needed here too. (slept sometime between last post and now!)
We ought to come up with a 101 funny uses for DirecTV dishes, like they do with AOL cd's. They seem to be everywhere, and are no use to anyone...
My southern view of the sky is by pure luck (any other mobile home in this park would have it pretty well blocked, but this one happens to have it pretty open. I'd share if I could Being in Utah helps. I used to live on the east coast, NY and MA; nothing but trees there.

So... 76cm or larger is what I'll be looking for. I've seen the Winegard DS2076 76cm / 31" Offset Satellite Dish on ebay for about $80-$85 (including shipping). I haven't checked out your pm yet for prices, but will do so right after I finish this post- thanks. I spotted one setup, which was the Winegard DS2076 included with a SG2100 DiSEqC 1.2 MOTORIZED H-H Mount, for $170. A bit more than I was initially looking to spend, but would be so much easier than constantly going out and adjusting for different satellites, or buying more lnb's to try and strap on and align somehow. The rest of my setup which I've already purchased IS DiSEqC compatible, after all (yay, I researched & bought smart!).

76cm (31") seems to be the largest I can find on ebay for WineGard. I found some Fortec 180cm (6 ft.) dishes as well, but they seem to come with no polar mount, nor Optional LNBF collar mounting ring, making their $180 (inc. shipping) cost look pretty pricey. The benefit is these handle C & Ku, so I could think of the future (or get it done now) and cover all my bases, band-wise. What would I need to buy to make one of these work? Trying to be smart; I may not have planned on the cost, but I'd rather set it all up now and spend a little more, than wait a few weeks or a month to get the urge and upgrade/retrofit things (Single "great" purchase vs several "good" ones; ie, why the pc's I build aren't completely obsolete 6-12 mo. after I build them )

I have a software DVD decoder installed, and this pc is a 2.3Ghz with TV-out; should be pretty good for this system. Eventually when I gather the spare parts, I'll toss together a little "media pc" that will be dedicated to running the Twinhan and playing other types of media onto the TV.

Thanks for your snappy reply; I welcome everyone else's input.
Now off to check my PM so I'll have 8 other things to post about, lol.

 

[Mr Tony]

Best first post, ever.

no sh*t

Welcome
Looks like you've done your homework

I'm (obviously) new to this hobby and forum (hi all!), but I've been reading here for the past two days, and finally feel intelligent enough to be laughed at ;-) Actually, you guys seem great; helpful, and not prone to flaming even newbies like me...

The only ones I flame are people who want to steal Dish Network...the rest we treat very well

Here's my situation: I'm in Orem, Utah (roughly 40° 13' N, 111° 43' W). I've been using standard VHF/UHF broadcast reception from a single-story roof arial. Raising it 5 feet and replacing the 20-year-old wiring didn't help much; it just plain bites. It's very luck-of-the-draw anyhow, really, as broadcast usually is... occassionally we enjoy the major networks (FOX or CBS) for certain favorite shows but usually end up watching whatever mindless dribble is on TV. My point is, we're not altogether picky on what selection we get, as long as it's more than the pitiful 6 fuzzy channels we get now. I stumbled across FTA recieving, and the geek-project-loving-do-it-yourself part of me took over. I'm a computer geek at heart, so after doing some research, I bought this little setup today for $95 including shipping:

Twinhan 102G PCI Satellite Card
Inline Powered Amplifier (16-20db gain)
4X1 DiSEQc Switch
Two (2) Metal 75Ohm Terminator Caps for any unused Ports
SF-95 Signal Meter (tone and beep, Backlit)

Now, I have a DirecTV dish already on the house (was there when I bought it). From what I've read, this is about as useful as a coat hanger for FTA. I'm hoping it may at least work enough to let me test the TwinHan card I bought; if not, well, I have to get a better dish/lnb anyhow. After reading up here, and checking out lyngsat, it looks like C-Band people have all the fun.

You can use the Direct dish to make sure the card works. There is some channels free on Dish Network (NASA, Angel One, Dish 101 channel). Not much, but the audio channels are free too.

They get the major network streams, and in some ways tuning in satellites is easier than with Ku; though I'd much rather have both. Being a do-it-myself'er, I immediately went to google for plans on building my own satellite dish. After all, if people in (where was it, India?) can assemble working ones out of old cans and scrap metal, I should be able to whip up a better one out of a few trips to Home Depot, right? Well, I can't find any plans. I only know that 4.5' is absolute minimum for C-band reception, and 6' or better is.. well, better. Even if I had to purchase the lnb seperately off ebay, and just build the dish itself- fine. But no, can't fnd anything. Even thought, how about extending on my little DirecTV dish with curved wood and mesh wire, giving a bigger circumfirance, then extending the lnb arm out to compensate? (Any ideas?)

C-Band does have a lot of stuff, but if you are strapped for space, a KU band will work. It has most of the major networks (NBC excluded) on Galaxy 10. Most of these are Eastern/Central feeds but ABC is Mountain (Casper, WY) and the spanish channels are in all time zones.

So for now, back to buying a C/Ku band dish. All the 5' ones I can find (even the 6' ones, actually) on ebay are Ku only. Would slapping a C-band lnb next to the Ku one function, with some fine tuning? I'm keeping an eye open (though I think the wife will kill me, as we have very little yard space) for one of the BUD dishes in somone's yard, etc, but I'm doubting I'll find one. I'll check around tommorrow. Normally I'd use ebay, but shipping sort of deters that, and as I said... can't find a smaller version that also handles C band.

I think a 5' c-band may not work real well due to the power of the satellites and the spacing.

So, sorry for being so long-winded, but I guess the basics are:

1) Is it possile to build a dish, modify an existing one, or order one off the web somewhere that handles both C and Ku, doesn't cost as much as my car or look like it belongs to NASA? ;-) Keep in mind I have to balance between how happy the wife will be about having some nice, clear, digital TV to watch vs her killing me for installing a monstrous dish in our 10' x 16' backyard!

most c-band dishes are set for both c & Ku...but it isnt hard to add a KU if needed

2) Based on my location, and saying I have a fairly clear view of the southern sky (the DirecTV dish pulls in a great signal; I tested it once, though I know those aren't the satellites I'd be using) what are my chances of some halfway decent programming, with and without C band? I read in one post I'd get a handful of channels on Ku (after replacing the DirecTV lnb with a generic one) and some music channels, but nothing very exciting. That post was a year old though, I think, and I know FTA availability changes... I realize if I want the major networks, C-band is a must.

I can get all the networks off Ku band
CBS, ABC, FOX, UPN, WB, UNIV, TELEFUTURA, PAX, and INDEP. all off one KU dish aimed at Galaxy 10. If you add a motor, you can get other channels too

3) Has anyone used this particular card (Twinhan VisionPlus 102G PCI Card) for FTA viewing before? If not, when I get something running, I'd be happy to give everyone a review on it. Speaking of which, if somone has some homemade antenna ideas for me, I'll happily document that as well (have the digital camera and webspace ready!) for others to benefit from.

Thanks for bearing with my humungous first posting, TIA for any and all advice... and hi, my name's Michael ;-)

I haven't worked with a card, but there are some who have

Sounds like you know what you plan on doing. I wish I could hook a C-Band up, but due to home owners ass'n, I can't. So I have a couple KU band dishes (30" and 39") and use them. I added a DBS LNB (DirecTv LNB) to get the free audio on Dish Network and the radio stations from Canada on ExpressVu.

 

[carload]

Hi Michael!

One more point. If you really want a C-band dish, you might be able to get someone to give you one. Look around the boards and you'll find better stories than I can give you second-hand. (Posting an "I'll remove yours for free" notice at your grocer, for example.) Or you could check out FreeCycle and see if any groups are close enough to you for you to post a "Wanted: Big Ugly Dish" notice online. (http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=US+Southwest) Good luck!

 

[CharredPC]

It sounds like if I really really want C-Band, I should go for the full 8-10' dish, not a wimpy 5'. I'm curious now, has anyone tried one of those 5-6' deals on C-band? I'd be interested to hear the results.

I'm going this morning to look at a few places that just might carry the dishes locally (here's hoping.. don't you hate waiting for items to ship? They estimate SIX days now for my Twinhan card to get here, and it's already in the mailstream! Curse FedEx.. lol). Unless I get offerred a free BUD, I suppose I'll go with the Winegard DS2076 / SG2100 DiSEqC 1.2 MOTORIZED H-H Mount package for $170 shipped. It's the same price either from psb or ebay, and as much as I want every available channel, every band, EVERYTHING- it would probably be smartest for now to use this little setup. It sounds like you have a really decent channel spread, Iceberg; with the SG2100, hopefully I'll get even more! Plenty for me, considering what I've been working with off broadcast.

Oh, one more thing. Am I right in thinking I could use the 4X1 DiSEQc Switch to add my existing DirecTV dish into the mix, so I can continue to recieve the audio channels there? Seeing as I already have it, might as well use it.

Thanks a ton for all the feedback... should be quite a fun/useful project!

 

[Cascade]

should be quite a fun/useful project!

hehe, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into

 

[Shawn95GT]

Don't forget the LNB. I think with the LNB PSB has a pretty good deal (and a 'good' LNB).

Shawn

 

[timmy1376]

I can give a little advice on the cards. I use ProgDVB and so does Cascade I believe. I have also tried RitzDVB.

TVedia is pretty cool, but you have to download MyTheatre for it to work, but it will do recordings, play music, etc, just like Windows media center will.

At first, just hook it up without a switch, I think you will be better off. As far as the cards go, there is really no blind search, so we are stiffed a little in that way. Try the dbs dish, there plenty of radio on a few of the dbs sats, dish and BEV ones.

good luck!

 

[carload]

Oh, one more thing. Am I right in thinking I could use the 4X1 DiSEQc Switch to add my existing DirecTV dish into the mix, so I can continue to recieve the audio channels there? Seeing as I already have it, might as well use it.

As has been said, first hook up your FTA dish without a switch, but once you've got the new dish working, a switch would be a good idea.

Be sure to turn off the receiver before you disconnect/connect anything to the switch. If you don't, you can fry the switch. I wonder if that's ever happened to anyone else here...

Signed, the guy who keeps a spare switch around in case he fries another one.

 

[Mr Tony]

Be sure to turn off the receiver before you disconnect/connect anything to the switch. If you don't, you can fry the switch. I wonder if that's ever happened to anyone else here...

when carload says turn off the receiver, he means the switch in the back (if applicable)...in a PC case....before you load the program.

Since you are changing something, that's why you do that...or you'll maybe do damage to the switch (not always

 

[Wayn23]

It sounds like if I really really want C-Band, I should go for the full 8-10' dish, not a wimpy 5'. I'm curious now, has anyone tried one of those 5-6' deals on C-band? I'd be interested to hear the results.

Don't bother with a small C-band dish it will be much easier for you if you use a 10' dish. I am sure if you look hard enough you can get one for free, I had two given to me and they even brought them to me, C-band used to have 10
times as many subscribers as it does now and not everybody uses them for the wild feeds so if you look around you should be able to find lots of unused dishes and I am sure many people just want them gone.

As for the Twinhan card, I use an older one the 1020 and it works great and you can find lots of software both free and pay that is better then the software the card ships with. I use TVedia for Standard definition programming and DVBDream for HD programming(free) TVedia works best with an X-card from Sigma Designs to output the picture to your TV and gives a great picture, it is not free but you can try it for free. Mytheater is a very good program also and it is about $40 but the demo will run an hour at a time
so you can get a good idea if you like it.

 

[CharredPC]

Don't forget the LNB. I think with the LNB PSB has a pretty good deal (and a 'good' LNB).

Actually, $168.95 covers:

Winegard DS2076 76cm / 31" Offset Satellite Dish
DiSEqC 1.2 MOTORIZED H-H Mount (Model SG2100)
Heavy duty universal wall/roof mount
Universal LNBF
Shipping

Am I missing something? Or is that all I need?
If you answer back in under 25 minutes I can order it today :-D
(I'm not excited about this or anything, am I?)
TIA

 

[Cascade]

I'd not bother with a universal LNB unless it's roughly the same price as a standard, it's just something else you'll need to contend with when things aren't working right - my opinion only and I'm set in my ways.
You'll need some RG-6 co-ax/F connectors if you don't have them already.

 

[Cascade]

Thinking about it, that's a downright bargain for all you're getting.

 

[CharredPC]

I already have the RG-6 and connectors in place, thanks to the DirecTV system previously installed- tested and working fine. The Universal LNBF comes with the package, and it'd cost quite a bit more to seperate it out and order things seperately. How does it differ than a 'standard' LNB?

Yes, my thoughts exactly about it being such a bargain.. hence my eagerness to order. The auction's ending, but there's still a quantity of 3 left, so I messaged the seller and asked if he's relisting... curse me for transferring all that money out of Paypal! I'm forced to have a friend pay with a credit card while I await the funds to go into my account.

 

[tdti1]

I would get a BUD for sure, you can mount it on a pole next to the house to not be in the way, I have played with many dishes for C-band 4'-24' and I would stick with atleast a 8.5 10' is better, for ku make sure the dish is not damaged or there is no panels missing and the dish is not warped, if a pencil can't go through then your ok, an H-H BUD would be best but if you get one used free, it will most likely be a polar mount. Good Luck!

Well, you can get a small 90cm Ku-band dish with a motor, but the best is to get a 10'-12' c/ku dish with motor.
You can see whats up there here:
http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html

Get a list of DVB boxes here:
http://sat-receiver-world.com/index.html

4dtv info here you can get many free feeds with this box also:
www.4dtv.com


How to install the big dish here:
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp2.html
http://www.satellitehelp.com/installation_index.asp
Click the first link on the page (Tracking Made Easy) , its a great clip:
http://boresight.ripco.com/

Depending on the mount and your location, and objects that may get in the way, the more of the arc you can see the more free TV

 

[Shawn95GT]

I'm almost positive that the ASC321s is a better LNB than what you get in the Ebay deal.

 

[CharredPC]

I'm almost positive that the ASC321s is a better LNB than what you get in the Ebay deal.

Ohhhkay... but why?
Does it have to do with the 22KHz tone switching? Somone mentioned somewhere that was an issue, I think. And as cavalier as I seem to be, cost is a definate concern. Buying the parts seperately so as to get the 'standard' LNB would cost a bit more than this package.

Concerning the C-Band BUD: I'm in a mobile home park, so my "yard" consists of a 10'x16'-ish area behind the home... as much as I want C-Band, it probably just wouldn't be practical. Yes, if somone hands me one, I'll try squeezing it somewhere, but then I might have Iceberg's problem... neighbors just don't understand, do they? I plan on moving within a year anyhow, so I'll keep my eyes open for a place with a bigger footage of space to work in

And another quick question. The DirecTV dish is mounted on the side of the house; what if I leave it there and somehow afix the WineGard/SG2100 to the sturdy pole that the VHF roof arial is currently mounted on? (No, I'm not talking about the flimsy little piping the actual antenna is on, but the 2' thick pipe on the roof that is mounted on). It would offer a little more height, be out of reach of evil neighbor kids and believe it or not it'd be alot easier to work on up there than the current DirecTV dish spot. Anything special I should know about pole-mounting as opposed to "normal" side mounting? Come to think of it, if I really had to, I could use the "normal" wall-mount, a couple of U-bolts, and a whole lot of elbow grease to afix it pretty firmly to the pole....