Will any of the New Mpeg4 receivers

[purvis]

Have duel HD tuners that would allow them to be hooked up to two HD tv sets? The old 942 allows for one HD and one SD hookup. Any word on if the new 962 would allow 2 HD hookups? It seems that duel receivers would save dish on the number of units they would have to swap out eventually and save them money.

 

[HokieEngineer]

I'm sure eventually they will make a box with dual HD outputs. However, the problem is how do you get the data to the 2nd HD tv? Not many people have a DVI or hdmi cable running through their walls to their 2nd tv, unless its in the same room or close by.

 

[Cyclone]

And I doubt that they will return to using HD over the RF connection (like the old RF modulator for the model 5000 did) because of copy concerns.

I would expect the MPEG4 receivers to be pretty much the same as the 942 and 411.

 

[CivicOnBoostEK]

Yeah, theyre actually coming out with a 211 real soon (mid december).. Basically the same as the 411 except it has an ethernet port.

 

[Cyclone]

I wonder if that ethernet will be Dish's answer to all of those people who have Broadband but not a phone line.

 

[mdonnelly]

I wonder if that ethernet will be Dish's answer to all of those people who have Broadband but not a phone line.

Good question for the Tech Forum Q&A tonight. "What is the Ethernet port on the VIP211 going to be used for?" Matter of fact, I just sent them an email with that question.

 

[purvis]

So, it is technically impossible for a receiver to controll 2 HDTV's?? The standard cabling used by Dish can not handle the signal???

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

As far as I know you can't put a HD signal down coax cables or RCA cables.

You either have to have DVI or RGB cables for HD. I've never seen a DVI or RGB cable longer then 12ft. The problem really isn't Dishes end its your end as you would need to wire a DVI or RGB cable to the other location.

And doing that just isn't going to happen since High quality DVI/RGB cables are around a $100 for a 6ft length I'd really hate to see the cost of one for 20ft+. Couple grand at least.

 

[Smith P.]

I saw $700 35' DVI cable installed.

 

[roachxp]

Can't you make your own RGB cable with regular RG6 coxial cable with the correct tools? So long runs should be no problems right.

 

[rocatman]

As far as I know you can't put a HD signal down coax cables or RCA cables.

You either have to have DVI or RGB cables for HD. I've never seen a DVI or RGB cable longer then 12ft. The problem really isn't Dishes end its your end as you would need to wire a DVI or RGB cable to the other location.

And doing that just isn't going to happen since High quality DVI/RGB cables are around a $100 for a 6ft length I'd really hate to see the cost of one for 20ft+. Couple grand at least.

Component cables can be used at a reasonable price (under $100) and you are wasting your money paying $100 for a 6 foot length of DVI cable. I have a 12 length of DVI and I believe I paid less than $40 for it and the picture quality from my 811 to my HD projector is great. By the way the 811 has all outputs active so you could use both the component and DVI outputs at the same time but you would get the same programming out of both. I currently run 4 T.V./monitors from my 811 using the DVI, s-video and composite outputs. I am considering replacing my 50 foot length of s-video with a similar length of component cable if I upgrade one of my televisions to HD.

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

Rocatman
Have you ever tried a $100 Monster DVI cable vs. a $40 off the shelf brand on a True HD 1080i signal there's a big visible difference. Even if you could get a 50' DVI cable its not going to be cheap. RGB cables would be the cheaper of the two types. The only issue on the horizon is the fact there already being phased out in favor of DVI because of piracy issues.

RoachXp
I've never thought about making my own RGB cables. So I did some google'ing and found a few sites that tells you how and even sells the tools and parts. RG6 can be used but they recommend a Coaxial Video Cable that's got a stranded center conductor and double braided copper shielding. On that site I did manage to find an order page which had lengths from 12' for $68 to 90' for $253 per cable.

If Dish did release a HD dual tuner receiver that output HD on both tuners you could get the HD signal to another location (at least till they did away with RBG cables). But it’s not feasible for Dish to do that when HD is still in its infancy. I could see this happening after the mandatory HD deadline.

The site I found that makes custom RBG / Component / Composite Cables is
www.bdcable.com

 

[SimpleSimon]

Have you ever tried a $100 Monster DVI cable vs. a $40 off the shelf brand on a True HD 1080i signal there's a big visible difference.

If you're talking DVI-D, you've got to be kidding. There is absolutely NO WAY that you will see a picture quality difference due to cable type on a DIGITAL signal. PERIOD. What will happen as the length causes enough loss is that you will start getting pixellation and dropouts, just the same as with dish rain fade.

As for DVI-A, that's nothing more than component output with a different connector, and in that case, yes, cable quality can make a difference.

Finally, DVI itself is already being phased out in favor of HDMI.

 

[John Kotches]

If you're talking DVI-D, you've got to be kidding. There is absolutely NO WAY that you will see a picture quality difference due to cable type on a DIGITAL signal. PERIOD. What will happen as the length causes enough loss is that you will start getting pixellation and dropouts, just the same as with dish rain fade.

With a 25' run for 720p and 1080i, I got random bits of red, green and blue; that's digital noise. I've seen it with expensive and inexpensive cables. It was exacerbated when I had some DVI/HDMI convertors inline.

We're talking about pushing > 1Gbit/per second of time sensitive data to the display. It's not ethernet packets that aren't time sensitive.

It's worse if you're talking about 1080p.

So yes, you can see a cable quality difference, but it isn't about price though, it's about shielding, impedance and proper termination.

As for DVI-A, that's nothing more than component output with a different connector, and in that case, yes, cable quality can make a difference.

DVI-A is RGBHV or Component, more likely RGBHV than component., designed more for monitors to get RGBHV digital and analog on a single cable.

Finally, DVI itself is already being phased out in favor of HDMI.

What sucks is that HDMI is a superior technological interface with a really crappy connector.

Regards,

 

[sfollenius]

Consumer reports had an article of monster brand vs. generic cables, is it worth it? They reported that analogue had a slight improvement on picture quality but wasn't enough to justify the difference in cost. The digital cables they reported, were basically no different.

 

[BrettTRay]

John, maybe the reason you are seeing "random bits of red, green, and blue" is because you are using a 25' DVI cable. They are only rated to for like 3 meters, right? I still say that you will not see a difference on any DVI run as long as its within the length limits.

 

[jergenf]

There are DVI and HDMI repeater boxes that amplify the digital signal levels so that you can run over 150 feet. I believe HDMI has digital audio within but with DVI you'll still need a solution for carrying the sound that distance.

 

[NOHDjunkie]

I have a 10 meter DVI cable ($100) and a 10 meter Component cable ($29) to my projector the picture is great on both.

I also have a 75ft conponent cable (with RCA audio)($70) fished through my walls from the bedroom 942 to the 50" in the living room. Picture is awesome.

I would never consider Monster cable. It's just hype. IMHO

 

[John Kotches]

John, maybe the reason you are seeing "random bits of red, green, and blue" is because you are using a 25' DVI cable. They are only rated to for like 3 meters, right? I still say that you will not see a difference on any DVI run as long as its within the length limits.

Nope, it's either 8 or 10m, with no amplifiers. I have a switcher in circuit that regenerates signals.

I will say again, there was no relationship between noise and price. Cheap and not so cheap, some had noise, some didn't.

I've switched over to an HDMI switcher, in preparation for the next upgrade.

Have you considered the possibility that screen size and viewing distance might be a factor? I watch on an 80" wide screen, at 1.3 screen widths, which is pretty close. This is much closer than most view an RPTV, or a computer monitor. Generally speaking we watch pretty far from an RPTV and it's easy to overlook small details that will jump out on a larger screen seated closer.

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

There are DVI and HDMI repeater boxes that amplify the digital signal levels so that you can run over 150 feet. I believe HDMI has digital audio within but with DVI you'll still need a solution for carrying the sound that distance.

Audio over HDMI is in its infancy at the moment, it won't begin to hit its stride until the High Definition optical formats (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) come to market and more receivers have HDMI switching, which is also in its infancy.

Audio over HDMI really needs to goto the receiver first, so that it can take the audio off. I don't know of any display devices at this time that can take audio off of HDMI and pass it as an output, and I can see that as being a lipsynch nightmare

Anyway, yes HDMI can pass audio, but it's very limited right now but is growing in scale as to what it carries. I know a lot more than this, but I'm not sure this is the appropriate place to discuss it.

Best,