Why no Satellite TiVo?

[yourbeliefs]

Is there anything resembling a logical reason as to why TiVo doesn't work for D* and Dish? What happened to cause us Satellite customers to lose access to this? I can't imagine this is TiVo's doing, because it cuts off a HUGE market segment, but at the same time I can't imagine that its even competitively fair for satellite companies to not allow TiVo. Is it just a matter of time before us customers can get a new TiVo or should we not even bother holding our breath?

 

[charper1]

Money..

Companies have to pay for the rights and/or licensing to carry TiVo in their units. TiVo is simply a name brand of DVR and other than a very SMALL handful of patented features in their software; none of which I have ever missed, the self branded DVRs are just as good without having to pay to have an attached name software. Once the self brand units get a few more years of R&D under their belts, they will likely be better than TiVo.

If fact, to many hardcore DVR users the ReplayTV software was always superior to the TiVo units, but they did not mass market; seems they thought the could stay small, under the radar, true to the end user as opposed to the corporate partnerships TiVo fostered; but they saw the writing on the wall that main players were going to their own boxes and got out of the set-top box biz and specifically make software only now. Their set-tops are still supported and are top notch.

 

[Jimbo]

Is there anything resembling a logical reason as to why TiVo doesn't work for D* and Dish? What happened to cause us Satellite customers to lose access to this? I can't imagine this is TiVo's doing, because it cuts off a HUGE market segment, but at the same time I can't imagine that its even competitively fair for satellite companies to not allow TiVo. Is it just a matter of time before us customers can get a new TiVo or should we not even bother holding our breath?

I would not hold your breath...

I believe, (someone correct me if I am wrong) but I think as far as D* is concerned, it is due to the amount of money TIVO was asking D* for per sub, they decided that they should be able to produce a capable DVR on thier own (help from the companies they contracted, PACE, RCA/Thompson, so far.) This way D* keeps the entire amount of the DVR fee instead of sending a large part to TIVO.

Weather they have succeded depends on who you talk to.

As for why DISH is not using TIVO , I don't recall.

Jimbo

 

[charper1]

I would not hold your breath...
Jimbo

Agreed. IF TiVo does anything, it would likely be a unit they produce that is mostly DBS compatible and they would market it and sell it to the DBS user as an add-on accessory type deal (a true stand-alone), but not as an actual DBS incorporated/enabled DVR like before.

 

[moonman]

Tivo's hardware chip will not decode MPEG4
stream, only MPEG2....now that DirecTV has
MPEG4 DVR of their own, I doubt they would
be looking to partner with Tivo again, even if Tivo put out a MPEG4 box.

 

[yourbeliefs]

Tivo's hardware chip will not decode MPEG4
stream, only MPEG2....now that DirecTV has
MPEG4 DVR of their own, I doubt they would
be looking to partner with Tivo again, even if Tivo put out a MPEG4 box.

Well... isn't everyone going to be going over to MPEG4 eventually, even cable companies? Or do they use a different compression method? I can't imagine if they're using MPEG that they'd stick with MPEG2 as opposed to MPEG4..

 

[Jimbo]

Tivo's hardware chip will not decode MPEG4
stream, only MPEG2....now that DirecTV has
MPEG4 DVR of their own, I doubt they would
be looking to partner with Tivo again, even if Tivo put out a MPEG4 box.

I would expect TIVO to market a Mpeg4 unit sometime... I also think that TIVO is trying to get into the cable markets, possibly smaller companies or work out a deal to market newer DVR's for Cable companies that do already have DVR's in the market, suppling a Next Generation for them.

The have to continue to try to find suitors or they will go away or be bought out by someone.

Jimbo

 

[moonman]

Well... isn't everyone going to be going over to MPEG4 eventually, even cable companies?

-----------------------
Don't know if everyone will...certainly OTA will remain MPEG-2, but it is a fact that
DirecTV will be going to all MPEG4 at some point in time.

 

[Jimbo]

Well... isn't everyone going to be going over to MPEG4 eventually, even cable companies? Or do they use a different compression method? I can't imagine if they're using MPEG that they'd stick with MPEG2 as opposed to MPEG4..

-----------------------
Don't know if everyone will...certainly OTA will remain MPEG-2, but it is a fact that
DirecTV will be going to all MPEG4 at some point in time.

I don't know if Cable Co's are moving to Mpeg4 or not, thats one I have not heard ANYTHING about, but I would imagine eventually ... It's mainly a COST issue that keeps from going to MPEG4 , OTA as well.

OTA compression is MPEG2 and it DOES use a different way to do thier compression, so you cannot look at the figures and compare them equally to other systems.

Jimbo

 

[osu1991]

I would expecr TIVO to market a Mpeg4 unit sometime... I also think that TIVO is trying to get into the cable markets, possibly smaller companies or work out a deal to market newer DVR's for Cable companies that do already have DVR's in the market, suppling a Next Generation for them.

The have to continue to try to find suitors or they will go away or be bought out by someone.

Jimbo

Tivo has marketing arrangements with cable companies for the Tivo software. It would likely be an additional fee to use Tivo software instead of the cable companies stock software. But it has been about 2 years and there is still only a beta test of the Tivo software on I think some Comcast systems.

I personally don't see Tivo surviving much longer. The fees they have received or will receive from the various legal battles is all that is keeping Tivo alive.

 

[yourbeliefs]

-----------------------
Don't know if everyone will...certainly OTA will remain MPEG-2, but it is a fact that
DirecTV will be going to all MPEG4 at some point in time.

I thought OTA wasn't compressed.. and why would they stay with that compression? Is it because its not sharing and bandwidth?

 

[charper1]

OTA uses the MPEG-2 codec

Codec: a device or program capable of performing encoding and decoding on a digital data stream or signal. The word codec may be a combination of any of the following: 'Compressor-Decompressor', 'Coder-Decoder', or 'Compression/Decompression algorithm'.


And the most likely reason why affiliates are not yet with or near MPEG-4, is because:

1) H.264 (also known as MPEG-4 AVC or MPEG-4 Part 10) was not "ready enough for prime-time" to be included in their implementation plans and budgets.

2) Most likely TODAY = MONEY; they spent good amounts of money to begin their conversion to digital (planned MPEG-2) now before most are even done (still not near the 2009 mandatory cut-off) and we want them to spend again to do MPEG-4?


They were either too short-sighted, not speedy enough in the original roll-out to digital; or in my opinion BOTH! And now its going to cost them!

 

[yourbeliefs]

OTA uses the MPEG-2 codec

Codec: a device or program capable of performing encoding and decoding on a digital data stream or signal. The word codec may be a combination of any of the following: 'Compressor-Decompressor', 'Coder-Decoder', or 'Compression/Decompression algorithm'.


And the most likely reason why affiliates are not yet with or near MPEG-4, is because:

1) H.264 (also known as MPEG-4 AVC or MPEG-4 Part 10) was not "ready enough for prime-time" to be included in their implementation plans and budgets.

2) Most likely TODAY = MONEY; they spent good amounts of money to begin their conversion to digital (planned MPEG-2) now before most are even done (still not near the 2009 mandatory cut-off) and we want them to spend again to do MPEG-4?


They were either too short-sighted, not speedy enough in the original roll-out to digital; or in my opinion BOTH! And now its going to cost them!

Well, if there's any consolation (at least where I live) for MPEG2 I've found OTA produces a damn good picture (except for NBC of course, but there's no helping that apparently) I know EXACTLY where my NBC station is.. Maybe I should picket out there demanding a better picture and I'll be up for the "Who Gives a Sh*t?" story of the day.

 

[Jimbo]

Well, if there's any consolation (at least where I live) for MPEG2 I've found OTA produces a damn good picture (except for NBC of course, but there's no helping that apparently) I know EXACTLY where my NBC station is.. Maybe I should picket out there demanding a better picture and I'll be up for the "Who Gives a Sh*t?" story of the day.

Yes, MOST OTA looks very good (NBC the exception, maybe they will address that in the new year). using Mpeg2 technology, like I mentioned they use it in a different way.
If you decide to picket, please take pictures and post them, that would be really fun to see

Jimbo

 

[vurbano]

Is there anything resembling a logical reason as to why TiVo doesn't work for D* and Dish? What happened to cause us Satellite customers to lose access to this? I can't imagine this is TiVo's doing, because it cuts off a HUGE market segment, but at the same time I can't imagine that its even competitively fair for satellite companies to not allow TiVo. Is it just a matter of time before us customers can get a new TiVo or should we not even bother holding our breath?

We D* subs had one, the HR10-250. But D* has made it obsolete and replaced it with its own half a@@ attempt the HR20.

 

[vurbano]

I thought OTA wasn't compressed.. and why would they stay with that compression? Is it because its not sharing and bandwidth?

OTA is compressed a LOT to 19.2 mbps Mpeg2 with audio to meet the ATSC standards. I think the feed originates on C- BAND at like 35 or 45 MBPS Mpeg2. Not sure if that is compresed or not. Now with all that in mind. How pathetic is satellite D* and E* Mpeg2??? Taking already compressed material and just destroying it IMO. Calling it "HD" and selling it.

 

[Matt9876]

Bad customer support by D*,Greed by D*,D* used business agreement with TiVo corp to NOT do business anymore.

I refuse to pay D* an extra $100 a year in DVR fees just cause of greed.

Matt

 

[tds4182]

We D* subs had one, the HR10-250. But D* has made it obsolete and replaced it with its own half a@@ attempt the HR20.

And you have how many HR20s, both purchased and given to you by D*?

They must not be too awfully bad, especially the FREE ones.

 

[stogie5150]

And you have how many HR20s, both purchased and given to you by D*?

They must not be too awfully bad, especially the FREE ones.

Don't be so sure, I had a free HR20 and I sent mine back. It was barely passable as a receiver alone, much less a DVR. Missed recordings, incomplete guide data, slow as a brick, no switching between tuners, I knew it was not for my household when my WIFE said it had to go, and she doesn't know jack about electronics.

All that being said, I don't really care if it says TIVO on the front panel, I want it to work. We TIVO lovers get accused of being TIVO lovers exclusively, when, in my experience, if we had a DVR that WORKED as good as a TIVO did for us we'd be happy. The HR20 is NOT that solution. The HR20 is what D* chose to use, and if you have to have D*, the HR20/HR21 is what you will get, so you might as well like it, because you have no other choice. That's my problem. No choice. Given a choice between a MPEG4 TIVO and a HR20 the HR20 would be left in the dust in short order, IMO.

I cannot speak for the E* DVR, as I've never even seen one, much less used one.

 

[charper1]

Bad customer support by D*,Greed by D*,D* used business agreement with TiVo corp to NOT do business anymore.

I refuse to pay D* an extra $100 a year in DVR fees just cause of greed.

Matt

HUH?