Why can Dish not substitute channels with others from the same network during disputes?

[miguelaqui]

When Time Warner and Hearst had a little spat, summer 2012, they were able to put an NBC channel from Pennsylvania until they came to an agreement.

Why couldn't Dish do the same when it has disputes?

Also, why does Dish pull the guide data for the OTA as well? I get guide dara for channels that Dish doss not even carry..so it cannot be that they kill guide data for channels they do not carry.

 

[osu1991]

Rules are different for cable and satellite.

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[TheKrell]

Yeah, as OSU implied, it's THE LAW.

Also, why does Dish pull the guide data for the OTA as well?

Now that's a darn good question. IMHO it should be unnecessary and would give Dish more leverage when folks like us can just get our locals for free. I'd be happy if Dish turned off all my sat locals if they could stick it to the local providers (and give us a break too).

 

[sam_gordon]

My understanding is the guide data is part of the retrans consent. No consent, no 7 day guide data (because Dish is retransmitting the data). HOWEVER, I don't know why Dish doesn't have the capability to utilize the PSIP data that is broadcast from the local channel. That data is already in our receivers. Yes, I know, some stations don't do a good job populating PSIP or keeping it updated. BUT, isn't 12 hours (or however small increment) of data better than 0 hours?

 

[TheKrell]

My understanding is the guide data is part of the retrans consent. No consent, no 7 day guide data (because Dish is retransmitting the data).

Interesting hypothesis. I thought Dish bought the guide data from Tribune, not directly from each station.

 

[sam_gordon]

Interesting hypothesis. I thought Dish bought the guide data from Tribune, not directly from each station.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but, I'm guessing, the data still falls under retrans, because the data still belongs to the station (regardless of how Dish gets it), and Dish isn't allowed to retransmit it. However, the PSIP data is carried in the OTA signal which can be received by the end user (ok, MOST of them). Therefore, it doesn't need retrans consent.

 

[miguelaqui]

My point is that Dish is sending data for stations for which it does NOT have any retrans agreement. For example, WGSR, a local news channel that is not carried by Dish, has guide data.

 

[miguelaqui]

I am ready for them to turn WSLS off!

 

[Mr Tony]

In most cases if Dish carries the station as part of the locals the guide info for the OTA station is just remapped.

Here is the info for the market down the road from me (Mankato, MN) for oTA

5-01 KSTP TSID 0x0647, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6347/8570)
11-01 KARE TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6349/8572)
11-02 KARE2 TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14785)
12-01 KEYC TSID 0x062F, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6701)
12-02 KEYCD TSID 0x062F, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 6703)

If you see the channel # other than KARE2 the rest are already mapped on Dish for the locals

 

[Mr Tony]

I am ready for them to turn WSLS off!

beautiful setup....

 

[Peter Parker]

I don't think that is correct. I et guide data for stationss I only get OTA----and there is missing data for statiosn DISH does carry.

 

[Mr Tony]

I don't think that is correct. I et guide data for stationss I only get OTA----and there is missing data for statiosn DISH does carry.

you missed the part where I wrote "In most cases"
I know when I had dish there were 2 locals that Dish carried that there was no guide for OTA
KSTC 45 (OTA 5-2)
KTCI 17 (OTA 2-3)

Dish can add guide data for stations they do not carry. Again see my example. KARE-DT2 has guide data (even though its just weathernation)

 

[dvrexpander]

The Law about not being able to carry other locals or similar stations is against the consumer in every way. Same thing goes with ESPN that they black out the whole damn channel when the program is carried on a local station like ABC. Why not put another game on thru ESPN instead of blacking out the channel we pay for. I'd rather have any other game on it than a stupid black screen telling me its blacked out.

 

[sam_gordon]

The Law about not being able to carry other locals or similar stations is against the consumer in every way. Same thing goes with ESPN that they black out the whole damn channel when the program is carried on a local station like ABC. Why not put another game on thru ESPN instead of blacking out the channel we pay for. I'd rather have any other game on it than a stupid black screen telling me its blacked out.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a good law, just that it's the law. Get a bunch of people together, contact your representative/senator and work to get the law changed. Yes, that will be nearly impossible, but griping on a message board gets even less done.

As far as ESPN, personally, I've never noticed one of their main channels (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU) blacked out. I must be too busy with my family.

 

[dvrexpander]

I don't think anyone is saying it's a good law, just that it's the law. Get a bunch of people together, contact your representative/senator and work to get the law changed. Yes, that will be nearly impossible, but griping on a message board gets even less done.

As far as ESPN, personally, I've never noticed one of their main channels (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU) blacked out. I must be too busy with my family.

are you really serious? They can't even agree with each other to keep the Govt from shutting down let alone change a law that shouldn't have been done in the first place. lol Ohh and I too spend a ton of time with my family all of whom watch football and sports and it happens very often on the blackouts for the reason I already stated.

 

[sam_gordon]

are you really serious? They can't even agree with each other to keep the Govt from shutting down let alone change a law that shouldn't have been done in the first place. lol Ohh and I too spend a ton of time with my family all of whom watch football and sports and it happens very often on the blackouts for the reason I already stated.

Well I hope complaining on a message board helps you blow off steam because that's about all that will come out of it.

And I apologize, I wasn't trying to insult or offend you. I like watching sports but I haven't been able to watch as much as I'd like. So what I was asking was whether you were referring to the "main" ESPN channels getting blacked out. I thought those were national feeds.

 

[dvrexpander]

Well I hope complaining on a message board helps you blow off steam because that's about all that will come out of it.

And I apologize, I wasn't trying to insult or offend you. I like watching sports but I haven't been able to watch as much as I'd like. So what I was asking was whether you were referring to the "main" ESPN channels getting blacked out. I thought those were national feeds.

I know how message boards work, but the point I'm making here is when a game is blacked out on ESPN 140 due to region as the game is now for example shown on ABC regional coverage then they should replace that blacked out game for your region with any other game even if its one from across the country rather than show a black screen.

 

[dare2be]

I know how message boards work, but the point I'm making here is when a game is blacked out on ESPN 140 due to region as the game is now for example shown on ABC regional coverage then they should replace that blacked out game for your region with any other game even if its one from across the country rather than show a black screen.

I've seen it like this: ESPN has in their listing "Game A or Game B", and so does the local network listing. The local network picks up "Game B" and sometimes "Game A" is shown on ESPN and sometimes it is blacked out. I think the blackout comes from the contract with the local station, they want more eyes on "Game B" so they demand a blackout of "Game A". It's all a corporate crap shoot.

 

[osu1991]

We were blacked out on espn 2 this weekend as abc had the game and the other game was in sd on espn2alt on dish. I've only seen it happen here once or twice a year during football

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[Hall]

When Time Warner and Hearst had a little spat, summer 2012, they were able to put an NBC channel from Pennsylvania until they came to an agreement. Why couldn't Dish do the same when it has disputes?

Rules are different for cable and satellite.

Yeah, as OSU implied, it's THE LAW.

In the case of cablecos carrying locals from other markets, I believe they are simply content to break the law.... What will happen, a slap on the wrist ? In my market (Dayton OH), the local Time Warner also carries the local Cincinnati FOX affiliate, but at 8pm until 11pm (prime time), the Cincinnati FOX channel does NOT show FOX's prime time programming - they show syndicated stuff, i.e. re-runs of Seinfeld and so on.

Also, why does Dish pull the guide data for the OTA as well? I get guide dara for channels that Dish doss not even carry..so it cannot be that they kill guide data for channels they do not carry.

Two reasons: 1) Because they can * and 2) because so few people get channels via OTA, the fallout or complaints are something they'll live with.

* This also gives them more potential customers to complain to the station they're in a dispute with