Whole-home DVR and internet connection

[Amerghim]

We had two DVRs (HR22 and HR21) that had been connected to the internet for a long time. They were connected to two wireless bridges and everything was working fine. Back when DTV was testing whole-home DVR, we even had them connected and working (they were choppy, but they worked). And they didn't have an issue connecting to the internet and downloading on demand stuff.

A couple of months ago, we got whole-home DVR and they sent a tech to set it up. He brought a wired CCK, and because my firewall is in the basement (where the RR connection comes in), I asked him to just plug it in to one of the wireless bridges. That's when things started to go south. He said he wasn't sure if it was going to work because of the wireless bridge... At that point whole-home seemed to be working fine. But the DVR couldn't download anything from the internet (we were using YouTube to test). The DVR actually showed connected and they were getting an IP from my firewall (on the other side of the wireless bridge) but no luck getting to YouTube. He called DTV and they said "it needs to be connected directly to the router and blah blah blah blah...". He tried a couple more things but no luck. So after a while he left and to let the receivers on overnight to see if the would get the on demand content... He said he would come back. After he left, just to make sure it wasn't a problem with the wireless bridge, the access point or the firewall, I unplugged the CCK from the bridge and the DECA ethernet cable from DVR and plug the DVR directly to the wireless bridge. Magic! Internet connection and YouTube available. He came back, called DTV, they insisted it was a problem with our wireless bridge. So we asked them to send the wireless CCK and the tech came to install it about a month later. No change. Same symptoms and behavior. The tech said they would have to send somebody else who knew the whole-home configuration better. So another guy came after a few days. He said the first guy installed the wrong equipment, so changed a couple of things. Still no luck. And now they were blaming the internet connection or the router. We went back and forth for a while and they finally said that whole-home dvr and on demand wouldn't work with our configuration, whatever that means. Even with the wireless CCK, they kept insisting the problem was with the internet connection, even though other devices connected to the same wireless network had no issues whatsoever. At that point, we told the guy to unplug the whole-home dvr stuff and take it. He asked us not to do that because if the issue wasn't resolved he wouldn't get paid for the call, and he said he would have his boss come over and explain why it would not work. Never heard back from anybody. And the connection from the DVRs is not working. So I unplugged the DECA from both DVRs and plug them into my wireless bridges again. Bam! Internet connection again... and whole-home over wireless (yeah, I know, it's crappy).

So that's where we are. We were charged for a tech call, even though it never worked and it should all have been part of the same call, and we are paying for a service we can barely use (it's really choppy over wireless). Any idea what could be the problem?

Sorry for the book, but it wasn't a short story

 

[BobStokesbary]

Yep. Everything you describe is quite accurate and should behave the way you describe it. Unfortunately, the D* techs simply don't have the necessary training on network setups even today. My installer was so confused the day he was here. And since I did not have a CCK on my order he was baffled just trying to get vanilla MRV working. When he called his D* installer support and I overheard what they were telling him to do and realized that MRV was just basic IP networking over D*'s coax. And that is the issue you are encountering with your system.

When setup correctly, you should be able to see all your HD IRDs on your router table. The best (simplest) way to accomplish this is to connect a wired CCK to your router (which you refer to as a "firewall"). Then you run a coax from the CCK to a port on your splitter (or add a two-way splitter) to the line and insert it there. This allows all your receivers/DVRs to have their own IP address and be directly connected to your router. (For your receivers you have to have the external DECAs to transfer the IP signal from the coax to your receiver.) The other option is to use the DirecTV wireless CCK and insert it into the coax line close to one of your receivers. (The wireless CCK has a coax in and out so you do not need a separate splitter to insert it into your line.) Paralleling the wired CCK, the wireless CCK apparently acts as a switch that retains the individual addressibility of each receiver to retain a direct connection to your router. Your wireless bridge cannot provide this vital functionality.

So, everything you have seen is exactly how one would expect things to behave. Hopefully, D* can find someone who can get this to work for you. But, as you have discovered, MRV loves to work over your home network and if you are content, you can just live with this option. Although, you need to know that D* will refuse to provide any support for problems with this configuration.

 

[ahjohansson]

My issue is similar. I just got DTV yesterday after going to FIOS for a few years and then just streaming. So glad I got DTV back! Anyway I waited for the new C-31 clients and the HR-34. I was their first install yesterday for this market share. I did some research prior and what I read was that I did not need a DECA/CCK but rather just plug the HR-34 into my network (I ran a CAT-5 cable to where my equipment was back to my router). They said no you need a DECA/CCK. So the DECA/CCK works as the HR-34 says its connected to the internet. But when I run my Directv app on my ipad it says there is no machines hooked to the network. I'm wondering if its because I need the HR-34 connected directly to the network via a CAT-5 cable.

So here is my questions,

1. If you a running c-31 clients and an HR-34 do you need a DECA/CCK or can you just plug the HR-34 right into your network.
2. Does this affect the iPad/iphone app from working.

Any help appreciated. I have had fios and I will say the DTV is just as good!

AJ

 

[BobStokesbary]

ahjohansson,

Glad you read ahead and got the wiring done. In my estimation you will be far ahead of the game to just connect your internet directly into the back of your HR34. (Be sure to recycle the HR34 by unplugging it or pushing the red button to reset things. Otherwise, it can take some time for the receiver to get the addressing from your router.) Save the CCK in the garage in case you need it in the future. The DECA inside the HR34 does all the work of a CCK and apparently is more stable than any external CCK connected in conjunction with an HR34 box.

The HR34 is communicating to the c-31s over your coax line. So whether you even have an internet connection or not, you will not interfere with that functionality.

I am not sure what iPad/iphone app you are talking about. I have an Android DirecTV app that I use to schedule programs on my HR24. That either works over my internet connection or my data connection when I am away from home. I can schedule programs without any internet connections to my receivers (as that functionality all goes over the satellite). Now, if you are talking about apps that allow you to see what you have recorded on your HR34 on your ipad, you need to have an internet connection to your HR34. Then you use the internet connection to display your HR34 content on your ipad/iphone. If you don't have the internet connection, you won't see that material on your ipad/iphone.

Hope this helps,
Bob

 

[ahjohansson]

Thanks Bob,

I thought I was right but it took them 5 hours on the install and all the cable was already in for 4 tv's! The supervisor came and then said oh we need a CCK and back under the house, put in a 8 way switch and add the CCK. I wish they just would have tried to do what I wanted to do first. They also said I cant plug the CCK into my network switch it has to go right to the router. I call hogwash but just wanted them to finish the dang job. They were nice enough I just felt like I knew more about the set up than them. Granted I wasnt on swim years ago and it a bit different on the install the rest of the stuff about the C-31 and how the HMC worked I had figured out in an evening on the internet. So when I get back to the house. Im gonna disconnect the CCK. Connect the CAT5 to the HMC and back to my network switch. Then hopefully my directv ipad app will recognize the HMC and I can watch programming on it. Thanks for you help bob!

AJ

 

[BobStokesbary]

AJ,
Hopefully the installer left you with the terminators he removed from your splitter. For SWM to work correctly all open connectors need to be terminated with a 70 ohm terminator. Those are the things that look like tire valve caps with a little blip sticking out of them. It would be best to get to your splitter and disconnect the line they ran from your CCK to the splitter. Just put the terminator on that open connection.

You might get away with having a switch in line between your router and the HR34. But, I agree with your installer that it is better to make the connection directly to your router. What is key for all this to work is that each of your DVRs need to have an address in your router table. If you have more than one and do not see each in your router table you will need to make a direct connection to your router.

This adressability is particularly important for the app you describe. When you start that app DirecTV's servers need to make contact with whatever receiver contains the content you want to watch and begin to download that video. DirecTV then has to reformat it to something your handheld device can work with and then ship the converted packet back to your ipad. If you do not have the necessary addressability set correctly this whole process just fails. So when you get everything connected be sure to look at the connected devices list on your router to make sure everything is connecting correctly.

Have a great one,
Bob

 

[ahjohansson]

Thanks for the info Bob. I got home disconnected the CCK, plugged the cat5 into the HMC and rebooted it. It ran its cycle. I checked and it says connected to the internet via my switch! woohoo. checked the on demand and it all came up! Then went to the ipad and iphone and voila it all works now!!! CCK is in the garage in my box of extra network stuff.

 

[BobStokesbary]

Very glad it all worked out for you. Do enjoy. D* is a great service.

 

[Amerghim]

Yep. Everything you describe is quite accurate and should behave the way you describe it. Unfortunately, the D* techs simply don't have the necessary training on network setups even today. My installer was so confused the day he was here. And since I did not have a CCK on my order he was baffled just trying to get vanilla MRV working. When he called his D* installer support and I overheard what they were telling him to do and realized that MRV was just basic IP networking over D*'s coax. And that is the issue you are encountering with your system.

When setup correctly, you should be able to see all your HD IRDs on your router table. The best (simplest) way to accomplish this is to connect a wired CCK to your router (which you refer to as a "firewall"). Then you run a coax from the CCK to a port on your splitter (or add a two-way splitter) to the line and insert it there. This allows all your receivers/DVRs to have their own IP address and be directly connected to your router. (For your receivers you have to have the external DECAs to transfer the IP signal from the coax to your receiver.) The other option is to use the DirecTV wireless CCK and insert it into the coax line close to one of your receivers. (The wireless CCK has a coax in and out so you do not need a separate splitter to insert it into your line.) Paralleling the wired CCK, the wireless CCK apparently acts as a switch that retains the individual addressibility of each receiver to retain a direct connection to your router. Your wireless bridge cannot provide this vital functionality.

So, everything you have seen is exactly how one would expect things to behave. Hopefully, D* can find someone who can get this to work for you. But, as you have discovered, MRV loves to work over your home network and if you are content, you can just live with this option. Although, you need to know that D* will refuse to provide any support for problems with this configuration.

I haven't had time to work on this until this week. We got a new wireless CCK and DECAs from DTV, just in case. But as you can guess, still no luck.

A wired CCK is not really at option. The firewall (not just a router) is in the garage, and running CAT5 all over the house is not something I want to deal with right now. I connected everything back (wireless CCK and DECAs) and MRV works fine. And anything Internet related (On demand, YouTube, Pandora... ) doesn't. I did try something else today, just to verify the wireless network is not the issue.

I have an HR21 connected directly to the CCK, using a DECA adapter. So I unplugged the network cable coming from the DECA from the back of the DVR, and I plug another network cable directly between the DVR and the CCK. No other changes. The Internet connection now works fine. Connect it back through the DECA adapter and it's gone again. I thought that maybe the cabling had something to do with the issue, but I'm not sure anymore.

At this point, I don't know what else to try. To me, it doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's time to ask for an HR34 and try it that way....

I forgot to mention I can connect to both DVRs and the CCK from a wired client without issues.

 

[BobStokesbary]

Amergim,
Exactly what device are you using as a firewall? And what is the make and model of your router? Something in your setup must be causing the failure you are seeing.
Bob