What is wrong with the Cleveland Indians?

[HD MM]

The Tribe has now lost 9 of their last 10 games. We have the worst batting average in the Majors (by more than ten points). We lead only the Royals in runs scored (more than 70 runs behind the Red Sox). We have scored three or fewer runs in 28 of our 51 games. And coincidently, we also have 28 wins. The Tribe is 5.5 games out and just suffered their first 7 game losing streak since 2003.

Then on the other side, we have the best starting rotation in the Majors with a collective 3.18 ERA! We have 7-8 capable starters (Sabathia, Carmona, Westbrook, Lee, Byrd, Laffey, Sowers and Miller). The quality starts that we are wasting is what is making this situation so difficult. If our offense could somehow manage 3-4 runs a game, we would be piratically invincible!

Is it too early to start unloading some very attractive pitching prospects for a boost in offense? What about Sabathia? His contract is up at the end of the year and if we don't re-sign him (read: out of Dolan's budget, so bye-bye CC), then he will walk without us getting anything in return.

With everything said, clearly changes need to be made. These offensive woes have lasted way to long to be considered a slump. So far, this year has been quite a disappointing showing from a team who was 1 game away from the World Series last year.

 

[DanLee]

Playing Chicago in 2, 3 game series, with them being pretty hot right now hasn't helped. I think the problem is also their bullpen. What is their cumulative ERA? The main guys appear to still be hitting besides Hafner and Gutierrez. younger guys are stuggling a bit, but it is hard to say.

Chicago is only 13th in batting average, close behind Cleveland in Starting pitching, but our bullpen has been very good. That has been the difference for us, and sox fans can't say enough about Quentin right now. He has single handedly one 5-6 games for us.

 

[SabresRule]

Looks like Ozzie Guillen's off the hot seat, and it's being replaced with Willie Randolph.

 

[HD MM]

Playing Chicago in 2, 3 game series, with them being pretty hot right now hasn't helped. I think the problem is also their bullpen. What is their cumulative ERA? The main guys appear to still be hitting besides Hafner and Gutierrez. younger guys are stuggling a bit, but it is hard to say.

Chicago is only 13th in batting average, close behind Cleveland in Starting pitching, but our bullpen has been very good. That has been the difference for us, and sox fans can't say enough about Quentin right now. He has single handedly one 5-6 games for us.

You're right, our bullpen hasn't been as dominant as it was last year, but I think the majority of our troubles can be attributed to our lack of offense. Let me stress that point by stating that we have only 2 players on our roster that are batting over .255 and 1 of them just got called up from AAA last week!

 

[DanLee]

I understand what you are saying, but on the South Side, we have several guys that aren't batting their weight right now(Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Uribe, Cabreram, Ramirez-he's pretty skinny though), but we have gotten timely hitting in many games this year.

Speaking of guys that aren't hitting their weight, why do Cleveland fans Boo Jim Thome every time he steps to the plate? He, as you mentioned in another post, was one of the cornerstones to the great Cleveland teams in the '90's.

 

[SabresRule]

Speaking of guys that aren't hitting their weight, why do Cleveland fans Boo Jim Thome every time he steps to the plate? He, as you mentioned in another post, was one of the cornerstones to the great Cleveland teams in the '90's.

I don't get it either.

He left Cleveland for Philly, and I doubt that the city of Brotherly Love has had any hint of a rivalry with Cleveland sports teams.

 

[Ramy]

Didn't the Reds start that great streak for them.

 

[webbydude]

I understand what you are saying, but on the South Side, we have several guys that aren't batting their weight right now(Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Uribe, Cabreram, Ramirez-he's pretty skinny though), but we have gotten timely hitting in many games this year.

Speaking of guys that aren't hitting their weight, why do Cleveland fans Boo Jim Thome every time he steps to the plate? He, as you mentioned in another post, was one of the cornerstones to the great Cleveland teams in the '90's.

He said his leaving the Tribe (Thome's) wasn't due to $$$. Funny thing. He sure seems to have gotten incredibly lucrative contracts in the meanwhile.

On the flipside of that coing, I seriously doubt you'll ever hear any booing for Omar.

Just one fan's opinion.

 

[JamesJ]

I dont think its too early to unload captain cheeseburger for a hitter, I think him and Hafner need to go, its a business and as much as I love watching CC pitch, I know in my heart he isnt coming back, so why not learn from our past and get something for him.

edit: its sad but I still try to watch/go to alot of games thinking, this is the game we turn it around.

 

[HD MM]

I understand what you are saying, but on the South Side, we have several guys that aren't batting their weight right now(Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Uribe, Cabreram, Ramirez-he's pretty skinny though), but we have gotten timely hitting in many games this year.

Speaking of guys that aren't hitting their weight, why do Cleveland fans Boo Jim Thome every time he steps to the plate? He, as you mentioned in another post, was one of the cornerstones to the great Cleveland teams in the '90's.

[FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva][FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]From a Cleveland Sports blog/news outlet that sums up the Thome vs. Cleveland situation better than I could...

When Thome hit the free agent market after the 2002 season it was a key time for the Indians organization. After the 2002 season, the Indians were in transition and in the early stages of a complete rebuild after General Manager Mark Shapiro's roster purge the previous summer. To fans, Thome was largely viewed as the most popular Indian, and was basically Mr. Indian. Many fans felt he would forever go down as one of the Indians greats of all-time, shatter tons of club records, and end up having his number retired and displayed in the right field mezzanine with the likes of Boudreau, Feller, Colavito and others.

But, that all changed on December 6, 2002 when Thome packed his bags, boarded a plane with his "Rock" (his wife), and shunned the very fans who grew to adore the farm kid from Peoria, IL by taking a six year $85 million deal from the Philadelphia Phillies.

Shun you ask? How can he shun the fans by taking six years and $85 million over the Indians final offer of five years and $62 million?

The difference in the two deals was indeed roughly $13 million in total guaranteed money, and most players would take the higher offer in a nanosecond. But, the catch here, is Thome was supposed to be different. A throwback. A player with loyalty and supposedly one who loved this city and the fans. As fans, we have seen numerous players in other cities take much, much less to stay with their teams, and we thought for sure Thome would do the same.

Thome even said so himself, as noted by two quotes from the Plain Dealer near the end of the 2002 season:

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva][FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]"I've never even thought about playing for another team. I really like the idea of playing your whole career in one place. That doesn't happen much today. You look at Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Kirby Puckett. For them to play their whole careers for one team, that's very special."

"What I do know is that my wife and I love it here, and we'd love to stay."

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva][FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]And, Indians fans are not stupid. While a lot of fans consider Indians owner Larry Dolan a tightwad and cheap, they know when they have been duped. They know Thome's real motive here was nothing more than M-O-N-E-Y. They know his words of wanting to stay here was nothing more than hollow lip service, and that he ended up being "just another ballplayer" looking to get paid.

......Basically, we were heart-broken by trusting one of our favorite players and felt used.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[JamesJ]

sad thing is HDMM, I still like Jim Thome and would give him a standing O if I ever saw him in a indians Uni.

 

[HD MM]

sad thing is HDMM, I still like Jim Thome and would give him a standing O if I ever saw him in a indians Uni.

Yeah. I'm over the Jim Thome thing. I will always respect what he, Ramirez, Lofton, Belle, Vizquel, Nagy and others did while here during the hey-day. I can separate the business aspect of the game from being a fan, but I can also certainly understand why there is still some uneasy feelings towards the ones we had faith in...

 

[webbydude]

It's funny you mention Nagy. Am I the only one who thought Nagy had this whiny, sad, "please mommy! I'll be good, don't put me on the mound" :river look on his face everytime he went out to pitch?

 

[HD MM]

Well apparently Travis Hafner is out again tonight and the rumors to an injury is indeed true. AM Sport's Talk Show Host, Kenny Roda, just announced on 850 WKNR that Hafner and the Indians are confirming that he is experiencing pain in his shoulder. We won't find out more until tomorrow, when the official press conference is scheduled at 10:45am. Manage Eric Wedge did not specify the extent of Hafner's injury but did allude to it being a potential cause of the Tribe sluggers slow start to the season.

 

[DanLee]

Thome chasing money isn't a good enough reason to boo someone who brought you out of decades of futility. Every player in professional sports goes after the money, if they say they aren't, they are lying. It's the nature of the system. It is a business, and no one would blame you if you left your current job/position for another similar job/position elsewhere to earn more money.

 

[Skyhi]

Thome chasing money isn't a good enough reason to boo someone who brought you out of decades of futility. Every player in professional sports goes after the money, if they say they aren't, they are lying. It's the nature of the system. It is a business, and no one would blame you if you left your current job/position for another similar job/position elsewhere to earn more money.

The problem people have with Thome is that he repeatedly lied about it before he bolted. That said, I'm over Thome. Carlos Boozer on the other hand....don't get me started.

 

[HD MM]

Thome chasing money isn't a good enough reason to boo someone who brought you out of decades of futility. Every player in professional sports goes after the money, if they say they aren't, they are lying. It's the nature of the system. It is a business, and no one would blame you if you left your current job/position for another similar job/position elsewhere to earn more money.

Not sure if that was directed at me, but again, I am not the one booing and I do respect and cherish the memories that Thome brought to the Indians during his career here. With that said, I can understand why other decide to "boo" him.

Let's put it this way: If your wife/girlfriend told you repeatedly that she "loved" you and "wanted to stay with you forever", but then chose to dump you in favor of your more wealthy best friend, I'm sure you would hang onto some animosity for her decision.

Cleveland had a love fest with Thome, aka Mr. Cleveland. He represented everything good about baseball and was a significant part of many great Jacob's Field memories. The city made the mistake of getting too close and let their feelings get involved. Fans were very vulnerable at the time, as before the '90's, an entire generation forgot what a baseball winner in this city felt like. And since the city left themselves vulnerable to be heartbroken by trusting the words from their favorite player, both parties are still paying the emotional price of the messy break-up.

 

[DanLee]

Not sure if that was directed at me, but again, I am not the one booing and I do respect and cherish the memories that Thome brought to the Indians during his career here. With that said, I can understand why other decide to "boo" him.

It wasn't to you specifically, but you are, shall I say, a representative of the Cleveland Faithful here on the boards. I understand the argument you made and can understand the animosity, but why didn't the Cleveland management give him what he deserved? He was probably the best power hitter in the game in 2002. Management gets a lot of free passes when it comes to contracts and the blame gets thrown on the "greedy" ballplayers, when GM's and owners can be just as bad or worse. Cleveland had a home sellout streak of somewhere around 500 STRAIGHT GAMES!! They were easily one of the top 5 most popular teams at the time. They could have given him what Phili gave him. One extra year!! That was too much of a committment?

I just don't like how players are always the bad guys. It appears that you have a better opinion of the guy than most Indian fans... kudos to you.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

As far as I can see, there's nothing wrong with the Tribe.

 

[KCK_Halo]

New life?

Well, it sure was good to see that Grand Slam by Franklin last night! It does seem like this could be the turn-around time. The White Sox are playing bad ball right now (to say the least!) and this should be the confidence booster all involved needs.

I DO think that Barfield should be brought up soon to take a crack @ it again...