Washington, DC HD Locals - HD Lite

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datwell

datwell

Supporting Founder
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Jul 25, 2004
654
4
Falls Church, VA
Well, I have had the 622 for several weeks now (still waiting for the 211) and I like the unit and the other HD nationals in the Platinum package - however, the Washington, DC HD locals are a disappointment. The PQ is really "soft" overall and I have noticed that the CBS affiliate, WUSA-DT is "murky" at times - really poor PQ. My 61.5 signal is strong, VOOM, etc. look great.

This is really unusual for E* as while their newer receivers may have an occasional software bug, this is the first time their PQ has been so weak.

--Doug
 
goaliebob99 said:
It could be the mpg4 encoders as dish is still working on them. Try sending an email to dishquality@echostar.com and let them know whats going on :)
Click to expand...

goaliebob99: Thanks for the suggestion! I have sent the email - we'll see what happens.

And thanks again for your service to our nation!

--Doug
 
riffjim4069 said:
I don't think my overall assessment of DC HD LIL has changed much since this initial thread: the 720p channels (WTTG-DT, WJLA-DT) look pretty good, but the 1080i channels (WRC-DT, WUSA-DT) are as soft as a bag of jelly donuts...

Personally speaking, I hate jelly donuts!!!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

riffjim4069: I'm not a fan of jelly donuts either!
 
HD LIL Bitrates...

I just came across BFG's Dish HD bitrates as measured on 9 April:

WJLA (ABC - 1080i) 6359 9.06
WUSA (CBS - 720p) 6360 7.07
WRC (NBC - 1080i) 6361 7.64
WTTG (FOX - 720p) 6362 9.59

The average bitrate for the MPEG-4 720p channels is 9.326 Mb while the average bitrate of the MPEG-4 1080i channels is only 7.355 Mb. If anything, E* should allocate an additional 2Mb to each of the 1080i channels. It's funny, because if look at my observations posted last month, you'll see the quality of the DC HD LIL mirrors the bitrate.
 
Same Old Song

Drat!!! The Washington, DC HD Locals still have very poor PQ!! I was watching our Redskins lose (big time) to the NY Jets last Saturday evening (WUSA-DT, 1080I) and the PQ was TERRIBLE!!!! OTA is problematic for me, but when it works, the PQ is beautiful - E*'s HD PQ was poor at all times and particularly poor during motion. BTW, NFL football is not "talking heads!"

Old Charlie needs to "have a little chat" with somebody!!! Verizon has most of our area wired for FIOS now and there's no HD-Lite with them!

Someone at E* had better wake up!

--Doug
 
datwell said:
Drat!!! The Washington, DC HD Locals still have very poor PQ!! I was watching our Redskins lose (big time) to the NY Jets last Saturday evening (WUSA-DT, 1080I) and the PQ was TERRIBLE!!!! OTA is problematic for me, but when it works, the PQ is beautiful - E*'s HD PQ was poor at all times and particularly poor during motion. BTW, NFL football is not "talking heads!"

Old Charlie needs to "have a little chat" with somebody!!! Verizon has most of our area wired for FIOS now and there's no HD-Lite with them!

Someone at E* had better wake up!

--Doug
Click to expand...

Are you having problems with Fox 5 as well? I am.

Wayne
 
datwell said:
Drat!!! The Washington, DC HD Locals still have very poor PQ!! I was watching our Redskins lose (big time) to the NY Jets last Saturday evening (WUSA-DT, 1080I) and the PQ was TERRIBLE!!!! OTA is problematic for me, but when it works, the PQ is beautiful - E*'s HD PQ was poor at all times and particularly poor during motion. BTW, NFL football is not "talking heads!"
...
Click to expand...
I too was very disappointed in the PQ from WUSA Saturday night. I watched the re-airing on NFL-HD and it looked great.
More bitrate is badly needed at least when the Skins are on.

Maybe it will get straightened out so the Skins will look extra sharp for the Super Bowl. :up
 
Another sad fact for us is that WUSA-DT is the station we watch the most - by a wide margin. This situation doesn't cut it at all!

---Doug
 
In all fairness, the Jets vs Redskins PQ from WUSA-DT was terrible...lots of pixilation, macroblocking, and out-of-focus frames. I was thinking, "This must be a local production, using the New9 HD Handy Cams, since the CBS usually produces a polished product." It really looked bad IMO

I had just moved my Sony HD DVR (ATSC/QAM) down to the HT Room and had to run the component output from it, along with the component output from an E* receiver, through my Yamaha HT amp due to the fact my almost 4 year old Mits Diamond CRT (had it really been that long?) has only a single 1080i component interface. The PQ of the Jets/Redskins games look like crap from both components (OTA) so I thought it may be the video processor on the Yammy. I checked upstairs on a 622 and Sony TV and discovered it was a problem with WUSA-DT.

Anyway, I rarely flip to the DC HD LIL channels (don't need to), but when I do I am always highly disappointed with the end product. I feel sorry for everyone relying on these channels as their only source of local HD. Ugh! Datwell, it looks like you'll be ordering FiOS TV if E* doesn't square-away the HD LIL problem. Of course, after 4 1/2 months and with more HD-Lite on the way, I don't think we'll see hangin' out in the Dish Network Forums much longer.
 
Riffjim4069: I have a few problems with FIOS - 1) We have 3 Earthlink email accounts (DSL 700K now-it's good enough for us) and we want to keep them, 2) the 622 is wonderful, - VZ is very weak there, 3) VZ has no VOOM, 4) VZ has no SIRIUS (although I have a work-around) and 5) the costs to retain most of the services & capabilities I have now would increase with FIOS. I don't have a compelling reason to change - yet.

If E* doesn't get the HD Locals straightened out - well, that could become "compelling" in time.

---Doug
 
I sent an email to dishquality@echostar.com as well. Everyone reading this thread should.

I think you guys are confusing the real problem here, it's not HD-Lite.
If you have a problem with HD-Lite, fine but it is not the problem with the DC HD locals. It is BITRATE (period).

I don't care how many holes your Shower-Head has, if you don't have good water pressure. I would rather sacrifice a few holes for great water pressure. :cool:
 
datwell said:
E*'s HD PQ was poor at all times and particularly poor during motion.
Click to expand...
Agree. Motion was the problem, and it was practically unwatchable. OTA was the only way to go the other night.

Dish has precious little time to fix their MPEG-4 locals before cable and FIOS eat their lunch. Few people with new HD sets this fall are going to tolerate blurry football. :mad:
 
I also sent an email to dishquality@echostar.com complaining about the PQ of the HD locals in Washington D.C. on Friday, August 18 (I have yet to receive a response). In my opinion, none of the HD locals are anywhere near HD quality, and CBS and NBC are the worst. I notice MAJOR pixilation and "ghosting" during motion and color shading is horribly blocky. I would venture to say that the E* HD Locals are worse that SD quality and much, much worse than any of their other HD channels...In my opinion, they are unwatchable.

All I can say is thank goodness that I have the ability to receive the HD locals OTA. The difference between the OTA HD locals and E* HD locals is literally night and day. I'll repost when/if I hear back from E*.
 
Fox had some "people choice" type of awards show on the other night and I flipped through it while a "music act" was on. Wow, I know that the flashing lights and quick camera changes effect HDTV, but this just looked terrible on Dish's HD LIL channel. I wondered if I had somehow accidentially unlocked the SD WTTG from my receiver. But no it was the HD ch. I then changed to the OTA 5.1 and it looked much better.

I had never seen a HD ch look so bad. Dish has its work cut out for them. Having 4 HD channels on a single transponder is just too much at this time.
 
Cyclone said:
Fox had some "people choice" type of awards show on the other night and I flipped through it while a "music act" was on. Wow, I know that the flashing lights and quick camera changes effect HDTV, but this just looked terrible on Dish's HD LIL channel. I wondered if I had somehow accidentially unlocked the SD WTTG from my receiver. But no it was the HD ch. I then changed to the OTA 5.1 and it looked much better.

I had never seen a HD ch look so bad. Dish has its work cut out for them. Having 4 HD channels on a single transponder is just too much at this time.
Click to expand...

Cyclone: That's pretty bad - the 720P stations (Fox & ABC) were supposed to be the best looking - the original story was that somehow, the 1080I channels didn't fare as well as the 720P channels with the new MPEG-4 arrangement.

Are they trying to drive people in this area to FIOS? I thought Charlie held DISH and not VZ!!!:eek:

---Doug
 
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