Wall Fish Custom work or Not?

[pearldriver]

I am an installer for a Dishnetwork Contractor and am being told Wall fishes are free to the customer. I have been installing cable of sometype (cable TV, Direc Tv and now Dish Network) for about 3 1/2 years and have never been asked by an employer to do wall fishes for free.

My root question: Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out "Exactly" what Dish network definition of a standard installation consists of.
I have read the service agree, that all dishnetwork customers must sign. In regards to the cabling it just says "routing of cable through one wall peneration" ... In my mind that does not include a wall fish.

Any help on getting Offical documents from Echostar/Dish Netork would be extremely helpful.........

 

[Mike500]

I never do them for free. I always charge for them. But, that's my specialty.

 

[pearldriver]

Mike500,

I am assuming you are an Dish Netowork installer. On what grounds are you using to charge a customer for wall fish? What "documention" are you using to support "your right" to charge the customer for a wall fish?


Or are you the type of person that that just smarts off in forums....

 

[BFG]

When my dish was installed I had all the wires go into the attic and the walls fished for free, of course I was with the installer and helping him the whole time and gave him money for lunch when he was done....

 

[pearldriver]

Not all customers are that kind or helpful.

I'll give an example of what I call custom work with a wall fish.

A customer already has a cable outlet in a room where they had been watching cable tv. They want me to remove outside line and move outlet to an internal wall so they can move their tv to that wall. After I have installed all the recievers and was only lacking activation of installed recievers. Now why in the heck used I be forced to conduct a wall fish for free and removed the other line.

I have never been forced by DirectV or Time Warner Cable to do a wall fish for free under in conditions.

 

[Mr Tony]

according to http://www.basicinstall.com/charges.htm
wall fish is extra

Routing cable though a wall (wall fish).
Wall fishing can be a very complicated task. Each part of the country has deferent construction methods which can change the method used to perform a wall fish. Ask your install technician for pricing regarding wall fishes

 

[pearldriver]

Iceberg,


Yes I found that also, but it realy doesn't give me any grounds to stand on. I am truly looking a the business rules of echostar/ dish network clearly stating what the free standard installation is. IE "Through one wall penetration" means what? To me that means from the outside to the inside via one straight horizonal hole. Not from the the outside into the attic through a header and fished veritcaly from inside of a wall and a hole in an interal wall. That is pulling a line out of a wall not through it.

 

[Mike500]

Mike500,

I am assuming you are an Dish Netowork installer. On what grounds are you using to charge a customer for wall fish? What "documention" are you using to support "your right" to charge the customer for a wall fish?


Or are you the type of person that that just smarts off in forums....

No, none of the dealers, for whom I install, provides wall fishes as a part of the basic install. Some fulfillment companies, however, require them as a part of the basic install.

Again, no; I am not a smart a** who makes unsubstantiated comments on these forums. For a junior member to insinuate this is ludicrious.

I've been a Master Electrician for 38 years and probably have been installing antennas and satellite dishes long before you were even born. I've installed double stacked conical antennas in the "Golden Age of Television." I hold a degree in Mechanical and Structual engineering, as well as two patents in robotics. I've installed all sorts of satellite systems.

There has not been one structure, commercial, residential or industrial, where I have not been able to place wires into inside the walls or ceilings. Then, however, there may eventually be challenges that I will not be able to meet.

So; does that answer your question?

 

[Neutron]

Welcome to Satelliteguys!!

Last time I checked the installation included a cable run from the dish or multiswitch, to each receiver being installed. Wall fishes or any other special kinds of runs usually cost extra, but are up to the installer.

 

[bcshields]

It's vague. On new installs the official rule is one wall fish per reciever to be installed for free. 4 rcvrs = 4 wall fishes.

How my office interprets that is one wall = one fish. Turn a corner or breach a floor it's considered 2. They consider exterior walls to be chargable, but interior walls to be covered by the rule.

I personally think they should be charged for. Try asking the phone company or the local electrician to run a wall fish for free. It takes time and time is money in this buisness.

 

[TYORK]

We did installs for dishnet work for awhile and i was a agreement with the company that we do all wall fishes and pole mount for free and run phone line also if needed.

 

[pearldriver]

mike500,


"Again, no; I am not a smart a** who makes unsubstantiated comments on these forums. For a junior member to insinuate this is ludicrious."



Now how did this statement from you, answer anything I asked?

"I never do them for free. I always charge for them. But, that's my specialty."



"For a junior member to insinuate this is ludicrious" Junior member or not your orginal post did nothing to answer my orginal question, now did it.

"There has not been one structure, commercial, residential or industrial, where I have not been able to place wires into inside the walls or ceilings."

Nor have I, but do you do them for free I think Not.

After my second post which was in response to your first post, I did read your other posts in the forums and will admit you know alot, but will not accept your first post to my thread 'IT DID NOTHING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND" As far as I am concerned your words mean nothing to me.

 

[wobbie]

I'm guessing that you work for a Regional Service Provider, I used to here in Omaha and we also could not charge for wallfishes or pole mounts, let alone have to run phone lines for free. Could luck trying to get some pay for all your additional work.

 

[CablerMN]

My root question: Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out "Exactly" what Dish network definition of a standard installation consists of.

While I can't answer directly about the agreement between you and the company you work/contract for. The following is from Dish's website:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/installation/index.shtml

Been in the cable/satellite industry for over 20 years. Every contract or agreement I have had (not including D* and E* dealerships) stated that the 10-15" (wall plate height) fish from the unfinished basement into a wall was included, be it an interior or exterior wall. Using a bell hanger bit, the "tip and drill" method works and finishes well. I have seen on other forums that a wall plate is not SOP, whereas the cable is left either hanging in the drywall hole or a bushing is used.

 

[boba]

Pearldiver your problem isn't with the customer it is with your employer if they say wall drops are FREE they are FREE to the customer. If you don't like their terms you can find another employer.

 

[pearldriver]

boba,

Yes, the problem is "not" the custmer. It is I have not been given any documents stating wall are conducted fro free. I have had custmoers gladly pay me extra for a wall fish. Then I have also had custmer refusing to pay extra and said custmer call Dish Network and the CSR telling them that wall fishes are free. So, that is what has brought me here. Is it or is it not custom labor?

CableMN,

That is exactly what is on the service aggreement, "Routing of cable through one wall penetration" Hence brings back my question. What is Dish Netowrks defination of that.

wobbie,

Yes, I am working for a RSP.



I guess I am just stuck in my ways wall fishes in my mind are chargeable services.

 

[bcshields]

The problem is that Dish is very vague on the matter. I quoted you what was in the Standard Professional Installation business rules of which I have referenced from dish network's retailer web site.

One wall fish for each rcvr to be installed on a new installation is included free of charge.

In my opinion, and I also work for an RSP, is that wall fishes should be chargable. That and 99 cents will buy you two apple pies at McDonalds.

 

[ken]

pearldriver, If you were my customer and made the kind of coments that you have made here I would have walked out on you. Why did you even ask if you were not going to listen.

 

[Claude Greiner]

The way I see DISH Networks wall fish policy is that you should install a wall plate on any penitrations going through an exterior wall to the outside.

If the customer wants an interior wall fish, or an installation where the cable is not seen on the inside or the outside of the home then that goes under custom labor. The customer needs to pay to have that type of work done, if not then I don't do the Job or we run it through the floor.

 

[pearldriver]

Does anyone understand Kens post? I don't......