Voom finally upgraded my OTA. Went from 1 local OTA channel to 17! Complete Review:

[bnl107]

Many of you on this forum had read my thread last week about my troubles getting the upgraded OTA antenna Voom had promised me. In a nutshell, whether it was a problem at Voom or at Installs, Inc, I had been promised an upgraded "large directional" OTA antenna almost 10 times, only to then get stood up by the installer a few days later. This had gone on for almost 4 months now, and with only 1 OTA channel (and that one only being a small independent, local news and weather station), I was about to quit Voom and go back to cable. Finally, with the help of this forum and Wilt, I got a phone call from "Voom's Corporate Office". Now, one week later, the installer just left and I now have my upgraded antenna! Here are the pros and cons:

Pros

• I went from only getting 1 local station to 17! I now get NBC 10, CBS 3, UPN 17, and Fox 29 from Philadelphia along with PBS 39 here in the Lehigh Valley! I also get some other channels that my local cable company (SECTV) don't even carry, one broadcasting from as far away as Wilkes Barre (about 80-90 miles North of me).
• Reception of the channels I get seems to be near perfect now. Before, when I was lucky enough to get reception for a few minutes, it was pixelated and would often freeze or just leave a black screen.
• Voom upheld their promise to find a new installer after all of the problems I was having with the guys from the local company Installs, Inc had been sending before. This guy was still from an Installs, Inc affiliated company, but it was located a few towns over. He even found and correctly quite a few problems in the previous installers' work.
• The antenna is mounted on my roof and is not visible from the ground (I had originally been told they would have to mount it on large poles they would have to put my backyard).

Cons

• Strangely, even though I do get channels 3 and 10, I don't get channel 6, which is supposed to broadcast from the same location. When I check the OTA signal strength it is actually higher than both of those other channels (which come in perfectly). Channels 3 and 10 show a signal strength of about 63 and channel 6 shows closer to 70. I've tried re-scanning my locals, but it still shows the "no signal" screen when I tune to ABC 6 (the screen does sometimes flash from "no signal" to a black screen though, as though it was about to tune in). Any ideas?
• Voom had promised me a "large directional deep-fringe" Winegard HD8200p antenna, instead the installer showed up with a "Parabolic" Channel Master 4221 (looks like a flat, upright square). It is still amplified and, since I do get the majority of my locals now, it seems to work well. Considering though that the signal strength is on the low end, and I still don't get one of my major local networks, I have to wonder if the Winegard would have worked better.
• Voom had told me that the upgraded antenna would cost me $580. If this was the antenna they were talking about, even with the installation, they would have been ripping me off royally. (Even with the Winegard HD8200p I was told I was getting, that price would have been high considering I had found it for under $200.) I have found this Channel Master for $22.95 online. If I had known this was what they were going to give me I never would have fought so hard for them to cover the cost. I would have saved myself 4 months of aggravation and just bought it myself and done the install over the weekend. I thought I was fighting to save myself almost $600, not $25!
• Even this new installer still spent the whole time complaining about Voom and trying to convince me to switch to DirecTV

All in all, I am happy. I have my locals now, and most of all, I have Fox for the Eagles games and the Simpsons . I hope my, now long documented, experience can help other Voomers in my situation (and I am sure there are many out there). Here are the most important pieces of advice I can give to current or prospective Voom customers who either have or fear they may have OTA reception problems:

1. Don't rely on AntennaWeb, and don't let the Voom CSR you are talking to either - According to their website, I only have two channels available (1 local PBS and 1 local Independent). With the original Voom supplied OTA antenna I could only get 1 of these 2. With some further research I found that, according to AntennaWeb, I would need a deep fringe antenna to pick up the Philadelphia network stations, even if I lived in 5 miles from the towers! In fact, they don't even list some of the channels I get now as being digital at all! Obviously this data is either old or just wrong since I get all but one of the local networks now, plus some.
2. Don't let Voom tell you that they can't approve you because the upgraded antenna is almost $600! - It's not even $25 for you and me, and I'm sure they pay less than retail for it. I really don't understand why Voom doesn't just use this as their baseline OTA antenna, it would probably save them money in the long run due to recurring service calls and cancelling subscribers because of OTA coverage. The install would take most people about 1-2 hours from what I saw (it is mounted to my chimney). If they give you a hard time about covering the cost, tell them you want a $25 customer satisfaction credit on your bill and then buy the antenna yourself.
3. Don't ever let an issue end unsatisfactorily with a CSR - So many times I was told my matter was being moved to the "escalation department" only to never hear back from Voom. Don't ever let a problem end there. Take it straight to the Voom brass if you need to.
4. Don't give up on Voom (or, for those thinking of signing up, give Voom a chance) - Now that I have my local networks, the Voom experience is amazing. The picture quality, even on my locals, is so much better than I ever got with my local cable provider (and I am sure it is much better than D* or E*). And the Voom originals, even though they aren't worth trading your locals for, are so much cooler now that I know they are extras on top of what I would have had with cable.

I want to thank this forum, and Wilt, for all the help. Without your help I would have just been another statistic in that infamous churn rate. Now I will be a Voom customer for atleast quite awhile, and I'm sure some of my friends and family will soon be joining the ranks as well. Thanks again

*Anyone not familiar with my previous thread on my fight to have Voom fulfill their promise of upgrading my OTA antenna can read about it here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=27719



*Here is a link to a site I found with the Channel Master 4221 for only $22.95 (plus $10 shipping): http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm

​

 

[madpoet]

I've got the Wineguard... it's a beast . What did youuse instead of antennaweb to find your locals?

 

[kfried001]

I have a wineguard 8200 and it is incredible. Glad to here you got help, Wilt is awesome.

Mod Edit: Removed the supre long quote.

 

[riffjim4069]

Just a few points...

The Channel Master 4221 is a 4-bay UHF bow-tie antenna - it's a very good antenna. However, I have two CM 4228 8-bay antennas, both hooked to CM-7775 preamps, which provide the most bang for the buck. Channel Master no longer makes the CM-4250/CM-4251 Parascope, 6/7 ft. UHF Parabolic antenna, as of 3 years ago. The folks at Channel Master (now Andrews Corporation) accidentally tossed out the casting/mold so don't expect to see those monsters anytime soon.

Your missing channel may be PSIP related. I receive programming from 4 DMAs (DC is my home DMA), but I can not "lock" a few channels in other DMAs for some unknown reason even though the Signal Level is above 90...however, it does appear to be affecting folks with newer STBs (Samsung, Dish 921 and VOOM). I've called the broadcasters, but they all claim to be sending a valid PSIP and the problem must be with my STB. Ugh! Anyway, the new Motorola Super DMA Map should be released in the near further so your inability to receive channel 6 should disappear. I you're interested, do a search on WTVR or WTVR-DT in VOOM "In Your Area" for further detail. As I recall, all the offending stations were using a Tandberg encoder.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but the tropospheric conditions where I live have been nothing short of incredible the past two nights: picked up WTVD-DT out of Durham, NC (185.98 miles) and WPHL-DT out of Philly (176.73 miles). I just hope your "good" reception continues...

My VOOM OTA was finally properly installed this past week - only took 5 months. The folks at VOOM and Installs Inc. were great, but they just kept sending installers who knew very little about OTA reception. Here is short FAQ I put together when helping others deal with their VOOM OTA issues, which others may find useful:

1. Plot your location (latitude and longitude) at the following site: http://www.geocode.com/modules.php?name=TestDrive_Eagle

Example:
Lat: 37.253327
Lon: -078.594939 (your longitude will be expressed as a negative number)

2. Conduct a Broadcast DTV search based on your location: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ - cut and paste your Lat/Lon from the above link (note: delete trailing spaces when pasting).
· Input range of 100 miles
· Sort by channel
· Select the "List Analog Stations" option

3. You will then need to sort through the list in order to validate potential DTV stations in your area. There may be a number of low-power stations and you may discover that an analog station 70 miles away may interfere with one of your local DTV stations. In my case, DC is basically 55 miles to my north and Richmond VA is 51 miles to my south. The Richmond analog 35 is interfering with my reception of DC digital 35

4. You can further validate stations of interest at the FCC website: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

I hope this helps…

 

[runz22]

WOW riffjim4069 !! That was extremely helpful. I've found a goldmine of information! I hope to use this when my VOOM installer comes next week. Thanks.

 

[bnl107]

***UPDATE***

The woman from Voom Corporate called me this afternoon just to make sure the install went ok! Voom is definitely making this customer happy.

I now get ABC 6 (The only local network I was missing), making my total OTA line-up now 20 channels! I'm not sure if I'm only getting ABC now because it is nighttime (I've heard that there is a better chance of getting signal at night), or if there was just a problem at the source this afternoon. Regardless, as of right now I have all of my local channels!

Second updated point to make. When I asked about the antenna, she checked and said that they had been scheduled to install the larger Channel Master 4228 model. I checked the box and climbed up on the roof to check, sure enough, they did install the larger model. The installer must have just made a mistake when he told me the model number. I'm not sure of this larger models price, but I am happy to know Voom didn't cut any corners and they definitely went all out.

Only question I have left: There are still a few channels that show "no signal", but when I check they have high signal (one is in the 90's). I'm not too worried about it since I have all my major network coverage, and these left over channels are mostly distant PBS and Independent Channels, but if anyone has a trick to share with me on how to get these channels to come in, the more the merrier!

 

[riffjim4069]

bnl107, too many unknowns. Take a look at the links in my above post and if you can't figure it out send me a PM and I will take a look when I get time. Don't forget to include your lat/lon and the channels you are having problems receiving.

Riff...<EOT>

 

[compson]

Only question I have left: There are still a few channels that show "no signal", but when I check they have high signal (one is in the 90's). I'm not too worried about it since I have all my major network coverage, and these left over channels are mostly distant PBS and Independent Channels, but if anyone has a trick to share with me on how to get these channels to come in, the more the merrier!

If you're getting a signal reading in the 90s and no signal, it's probably an analogue signal. That's no surprise if it's an independent station. If that's the case, you won't be able to watch it through the VOOM tuner.

 

[riffjim4069]

Hmmm. While I certainly do see analog stations, I have never had one display above 70 during OTA scan. Plus, signal quality is being displayed (which is a algorithm of digital signal strength vs. signal-to-noise-ratio) not signal strength...therefore, I can't see how an NTSC signal could register above 80 on the meter.

Perhaps I am wrong...but we still need more info...

 

[Ed Beach]

My gosh....reading your account of your OTA problems is like dejavu for me. Same thing here in Oklahoma.

You wrote
"Even this new installer still spent the whole time complaining about Voom and trying to convince me to switch to DirecTV "

Well my original installer tried the same thing. Do you think that this is a deliberate attempt to undermine VOOM?

 

[jimmykce1]

I was upgraded to a Channelmaster 4228 about 4 or 5 months ago and had no more multipathing problems.

Glad to hear Voom finally got to you and made you happy again. Now that you get your locals, you will have more HD OTA to watch. Enjoy!!!!

 

[vurbano]

I've got the Wineguard... it's a beast . What did youuse instead of antennaweb to find your locals?

try this
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

it has some awesome information, maps, power, transmitter pattern etc.

 

[vurbano]

My gosh....reading your account of your OTA problems is like dejavu for me. Same thing here in Oklahoma.

You wrote
"Even this new installer still spent the whole time complaining about Voom and trying to convince me to switch to DirecTV "

Well my original installer tried the same thing. Do you think that this is a deliberate attempt to undermine VOOM?

No the installers dont install antennas for directv. D* pushes its crappy SD locals by sat. If you want an antenna for HD you do it yourself and thats what happened with me. The installers do not want to waste their time installing and troubleshooting antennas, it cuts into the number of jobs they can do in a week. Thats why you hear of them trying to convince people to get D*. They save time and make more money getting in and out faster installing D* setups. Im sick of hearing these a$$hole installers complaining about antennas

 

[ArnieMc]

I really don't understand why they start you off with an amplified Winegard Sensar II. Both the Channel Master 4228 and Winegard PR-8800 are much better antennas for most situations and are cheaper than the Sensars. Maybe they got a great deal on a truckload of Sensars that "fell off the truck." Personally, I don't think it would be too much to ask to have them look at antennaweb and install the recommended antenna. That would save money and solve a heck of a lot of problems.

 

[riffjim4069]

I really don't understand why they start you off with an amplified Winegard Sensar II. Both the Channel Master 4228 and Winegard PR-8800 are much better antennas for most situations and are cheaper than the Sensars. Maybe they got a great deal on a truckload of Sensars that "fell off the truck."

Agreed...in theory! VOOM has been wasting a lot of money in this area. However, since most broadcasters will opt to return to using their old VHF frequency, the countless 4228s will have to be replaced or a 2nd VHF antenna added during the final stage of the analog-digital transition. Of course, this won't happen until 2009 or beyond, but just about everyone will require a VHF/UHF antenna in order to receive OTA. This is going to be be ugly/expensive should VOOM survive past 2006.

Personally, I don't think it would be too much to ask to have them look at antennaweb and install the recommended antenna. That would save money and solve a heck of a lot of problems.

Antennaweb is unreliable since they changed their digital station prediction algorithm earlier this year. I've attached their e-mail reply and would recommend sending a complaint for anyone having problems with their site: antennaweb-webmaster@decisionmark.com

Thank you for your feedback regarding the web site. There was a new version of the site released around the first of the year, and you are noticing some of the changes that went out then. In particular, the digital station prediction algorithm was extensively revised. The digital prediction is now quite conservative as determined by the CEA committee in charge of the web site. They preferred to list fewer stations that are virtually certain to be received rather than list a lot of stations, some of which might not be received. With some specific installations, however, sometimes many more stations can be received than those listed. It sounds like you're in the latter category. The CEA committee has said they will review the algorithm in a few months, so perhaps it will be revised again. We apologize for any inconvenience and will keep your feedback on file.

Thanks,
Lady Titan
Decisionmark Corp.

 

[Dvlos]

So far I've been real happy with my MetroStar, sometimes really bad T-storms seems to give me multipathing on two channels, but 90% of the time I get perfect signal on all my locals (I rake in like 30, duplicates though). I haven't had a single rain fade problem, or reason to call Voom with problems. Unlike bnl though, every single technician here in S. FLorida that comes out, has told me that all they do is Voom installs. Several have told me they have a Voom setup running in their office, and that most techs are jealous of the HD. They have almost ALL asked me if I'm VaVaVoom or basic, and when I say VVV they go "you got the best package in all of satellite and cable". Even though some have been losers and didn't do the best install/repair they all talked up Voom plenty.

I wonder if Brandsmart and Sears has made S. Florida a good Voom market?

 

[bnl107]

Thanks for the replies. I was happy to see that ABC came in last night, however it is back to showing the "no signal" message today. It does sometimes break into picture, but only to pixelated, freeze, and then return to the black screen after a few seconds. While I've been trying to understand this problem I've noticed some things I find questionable, and wanted to see if anyone on here could shed some light on them for me, or maybe have some ideas of things I could try:

First, even though I now do get signal from my local Philly networks, the OTA signal strength is very low across the whole board. For example, with the Sensar II I was only able to receive one local Independent Channel (WFMZ 69). However, the signal strength for this channel was almost always 99. Now, with the Channel Master 4880 and amplifier, I still get the same channel but the strength is only 81. This channel broadcasts from 4.2 miles away from my house according to AntennaWeb. Now of course I would trade loosing some signal quality on a local Independent station for coverage of my local networks every time. But I am wondering if this lower signal quality when going from a Sensar II (which apparently wasn't even installed properly), to a large 8-bay Channel Master 4880 with amplifier sounds correct?

Secondly, the fact that I don't get ABC channel 6 (except for at night), even thought I do get CBS 3 and NBC 10 all the time seems strange to me. According to everything I've seen online, the antenna installer, and Voom these stations all broadcast from the exact same location. Also, if I check right now:

• Channel 3 - signal strength 61 (reception is perfect)
• Channel 6 - signal strength 69 (black screen; "no signal"; sporadic picture with heavy pixelation)
• Channel 10 - signal strength 81 (reception is perfect)

I would think that since channel 6 has a higher signal level than 3, which comes in perfect, I should also have a picture on it as well. I know I have heard of some channels only broadcasting at certain times, but the fact that I can even now sometimes get a picture, albeit a very sporadic and pixelated one, seems to go against that possibility. I'm far from being an OTA expert though, could something else account for this?

Thirdly, There are some channels which have very high signal strengths compared to the channels I do get, however they always show the "no signal" message. I have verified they are both broadcasting digital signals, not analog, and I am also almost certain that they both are found during the local channel scan. Examples:

• Channel 57 (WPSG) - signal strength 70 ("no signal")
• Channel 62 (WWSI) - signal strength 97 ("no signal")

Finally, the rest of my possible local channels all register with signal levels which seem to be just under the reception level:

• Channel 12 (WHYY) - signal strength 33
• Channel 23 (WHJS) - signal strength 55
• Channel 44 (WMCN) - signal strength 36
• Channel 51 (WNJT) - signal strength 56

Like I said, I am far from being an OTA antenna pro, and I will honestly be very content with the OTA coverage I have right now. But, if there is a chance that something may be wrong, or there is an easy tweak I can do with the new equipment they just installed in order to get some more of these channels, the more the merrier . Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[HD-DON]

Hey bnl107,

Me too, deja vu all over again... I have suffered for only 4 months with the same problem and its driving me nuts! After installer "no shows" twice for my initial installation, I finally got the system in, but the OTA delivers only 1 network. After getting VOOM approval for an upgrade, I then get two more "no show" installation appointments from the VOOM/ INSTALLS,Inc. conspirators. The next Installation appointment produces an installer showing up, but bringing me the same Winegard OTA already on my system....duh? I've since had three more "no show" appointments.

Between all the time on the phone with VOOM/INSTALLS Inc. and local installers, plus time at home waiting for "no shows", I think I might qualify for employee benefits if I was punching the time clock at VOOM! But, seriously, aren't those folks at VOOM so nice on the phone. I've also comunicated with INSTALLS and VOOM by e-mail. And, my situation has been "escalated" so many times, I'm getting nose bleeds.

Sorry, please escuse my ranting, I need to release some before my head explodes.
bnlio7, who is Wilt and how do I reach him? Any other advice, besides your original great post of information?

I Love my VOOM HD, but want/need the whole package including all networks.
I cannot know for sure, but my guess is that the contracted installers get so little $$$ for installing an OTA, that they just ignore the work order. I'm close to buying the antenna myself and hiring my own installer.

Thanks for your help and this great forum.

 

[Sean Mota]

HD-Don,

welcome. Here's Wilt email: "Wilt Hildenbrand" wilth@optonline.net. He is the VP of engineering so he will assist you in getting this resolved (hopefully).

 

[jellison1]

No the installers dont install antennas for directv. D* pushes its crappy SD locals by sat. If you want an antenna for HD you do it yourself and thats what happened with me. The installers do not want to waste their time installing and troubleshooting antennas, it cuts into the number of jobs they can do in a week. Thats why you hear of them trying to convince people to get D*. They save time and make more money getting in and out faster installing D* setups. Im sick of hearing these a$$hole installers complaining about antennas

speaking as an a$$hole installer....you just cant get it through your thick head that 95% of us are SATELLITE installers with little or no experience with off-air antennas...and the only tool that voom gives us is antennaweb.org(a big joke)...and everything else we pretty much have to figure out on our own...and you also cant seem to get it through your thick head that we are doing this to make a living not just to serve whining people like you...of course we are going to complain about doing jobs that end up taking money out of our pockets when we could be installing a decent product like D*which we rarely if ever have to go back on as opposed to V*with its constant service calls that waste our time...and as of this moment i have NOT done any V*installs in months and have deinstalled about 30 systems in that time