Upgrading to HD 5 LNB Dish - Installer said no line of sight

[bluesyvox]

We've had our plasma for about 6 months but put off upgrading to HD due to the equipment cost. However, thanks to the awesome advice on these forums we got a smokin' deal from DirecTV's customer retention department. I mentioned the deals Dish has going (free upgrade to HD DVR). They wouldn't give us the HD DVR for free but did give it to us for $49.99 plus gave us 6 mo. free HBO and Cinemax, 12 months free HD Programming and a $10 credit for 12 months.

Then comes the bad news....

We had the installation appointment this morning to install the new 5 LNB Dish and HD DVR. When the installer showed up he said he was here to install the HD DVR but then said - it doesn't look good though, you have a lot of trees around here. He said he would go survey and then be back. He went out and looked around for a minute (maybe two) and then comes back to the door and says sorry, can't do it (he didn't even go in our back yard). He said we don't have a clear line of site for the HD dish. Apparently he said a neighbor's tree 2 houses up would interfere with at least 1 of the feeds. He said you basically have 5 lines of site with the HD dish instead of just one. I asked about alternate installation options (such as mounting to a pole somewhere else) and he said the 5LNB was too heavy and he didn't recommend installing it on a pole as it would move around and cause us to lose signal. So, he said he would call his office and let them know he couldn't do it and he left. He was here for a grand total of maybe 5 minutes from the time he pulled in the driveway. Now what I don't understand is he only walked down by the end of our house - didn't go up on the roof where the current dish is located to check line of site. We had that same problem years ago when we had our original dish installed - the installer said then he couldn't install for us because of line of sight issues and trees. My husband made him get up on the roof and check there and low and behold he got great signal.


So, after the installer left today I call DirecTV immediately and tell them what happened and explained that the guy that came today didn't even climb up on the roof to check there. They said we can schedule a 2nd opinion where they send a supervisor out to do a survey of our property. So, we do a 3 way conference call with Ironwood Communications (the installers) to try and set that up. They say it will take 24-48 hours for them to even call me and schedule that. However, in the meantime they had a cancellation on Friday morning and could send someone out again at that time to try again. They said they would send a more experienced installer or a supervisor/trainer.

Has anyone else run into this type of problem when upgrading to HD (the 5 LNB dish)? I almost had the feeling like the installer just didn't want to deal with it or spend the time scoping out alternative places since that would take too much time and lessen how many installs he could do today. I feel like I got blown off completely.

I would think that maybe we would clear the trees since you're talking about 2 stories higher than the ground where he tested. Then again I'm certainly no expert or have any kind of tech knowledge.

Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions for my Friday appointment? My husband will be at work and it will just be me here again and I'm not exactly sure about what I can have the installer try.

If this doesn't work I guess we have to go back to Comcast to get at least a few HD channels
Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[raoul5788]

We've had our plasma for about 6 months but put off upgrading to HD due to the equipment cost. However, thanks to the awesome advice on these forums we got a smokin' deal from DirecTV's customer retention department. I mentioned the deals Dish has going (free upgrade to HD DVR). They wouldn't give us the HD DVR for free but did give it to us for $49.99 plus gave us 6 mo. free HBO and Cinemax, 12 months free HD Programming and a $10 credit for 12 months.

Then comes the bad news....

We had the installation appointment this morning to install the new 5 LNB Dish and HD DVR. When the installer showed up he said he was here to install the HD DVR but then said - it doesn't look good though, you have a lot of trees around here. He said he would go survey and then be back. He went out and looked around for a minute (maybe two) and then comes back to the door and says sorry, can't do it (he didn't even go in our back yard). He said we don't have a clear line of site for the HD dish. Apparently he said a neighbor's tree 2 houses up would interfere with at least 1 of the feeds. He said you basically have 5 lines of site with the HD dish instead of just one. I asked about alternate installation options (such as mounting to a pole somewhere else) and he said the 5LNB was too heavy and he didn't recommend installing it on a pole as it would move around and cause us to lose signal. So, he said he would call his office and let them know he couldn't do it and he left. He was here for a grand total of maybe 5 minutes from the time he pulled in the driveway. Now what I don't understand is he only walked down by the end of our house - didn't go up on the roof where the current dish is located to check line of site. We had that same problem years ago when we had our original dish installed - the installer said then he couldn't install for us because of line of sight issues and trees. My husband made him get up on the roof and check there and low and behold he got great signal.


So, after the installer left today I call DirecTV immediately and tell them what happened and explained that the guy that came today didn't even climb up on the roof to check there. They said we can schedule a 2nd opinion where they send a supervisor out to do a survey of our property. So, we do a 3 way conference call with Ironwood Communications (the installers) to try and set that up. They say it will take 24-48 hours for them to even call me and schedule that. However, in the meantime they had a cancellation on Friday morning and could send someone out again at that time to try again. They said they would send a more experienced installer or a supervisor/trainer.

Has anyone else run into this type of problem when upgrading to HD (the 5 LNB dish)? I almost had the feeling like the installer just didn't want to deal with it or spend the time scoping out alternative places since that would take too much time and lessen how many installs he could do today. I feel like I got blown off completely.

I would think that maybe we would clear the trees since you're talking about 2 stories higher than the ground where he tested. Then again I'm certainly no expert or have any kind of tech knowledge.

Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions for my Friday appointment? My husband will be at work and it will just be me here again and I'm not exactly sure about what I can have the installer try.

If this doesn't work I guess we have to go back to Comcast to get at least a few HD channels
Thanks in advance for any help!

Whether or not you have a line of sight for all five satellites can only be determined by a site survey. It sounds like the first installer didn't take the time to do one. As far as the pole mount, it is actually the best way to install the larger 5 lnb dishes. Mine is done that way, and it is a very stable setup.

 

[rcman2]

Been there.

Scheduled for the upgrade in September. Installer in a red truck comes out and said no go because of trees. I tell him that I am getting 90's on all sats w/my 3-lnb. He says that it doesn't mean anything since the new sats are much lower and the trees are in the way. He doesn't bother to try. Tells me to call back when I get the trees trimmed.

2wks ago around Dec 2, received the automated msg from D* that I need to upgrade, and since I'm a valued customer its free. I callback and tell the CSR about the situation. She says to go ahead and have the 5-lnb installed and makes the appointment for the 7th. Installer in the D* themed truck comes out and surveys the site. I tell him exactly what the other installer says and he tells me its not a problem because he's not aiming over there.

He installs the Slimline w/no problem, and now I am living in HD heaven.

 

[IcEWoLF]

I had my new Slimline dish installed on an old Dish Network Pole and it worked fine, no moving, even when it was heavy snow and heavy winds, no problems. but then again the pole was like 5ft tall, so its not that tall.
I have bunch of trees infront of my house, but that didn't inpact anything, I still get excellent signal. I get SD/HD channels with no problem and the signal strenght can't get any better than this.
Most of the times it depends if the installer wants to go the extra mile or not.
Good luck with the next Installer, hopefully you will be able to enjoy the new Slimline dish and HD by the time he leaves.

 

[bluesyvox]

Thanks for the responses

Well, at least I don't feel alone in this. Thank you so much for your responses. I posted on one of the forums on DirecTV's website as well and a lot of people have had the same problem. One guy even had to resort to just buying the equipment and installing it himself.

We actually don't have a 3 LNB dish - it's an old single. However, we do get 96-97% tuning on it and it seems to be pointed in the same direction of the tree he thought would be the biggest problem.

I guess we'll keep our fingers crossed that the next guy will do a complete survey and will be willing to spend a little more time on this. I know when I called DirecTV they seemed annoyed that the installer was only here for a grand total of maybe 5 minutes (in other words - they knew he didn't even try).

Wish us luck

 

[pack-man]

the problem is that a lot of guys are new to the 5lnb dishes. they are taught that they need a broad spectrum to hit all the birds in the sky. 99 and 103 do sit lower over the horizon then the other 3. so if an installer sees trees he is taught to assume "no go" i would say half the time they are right.

in his defense, a lot of people are running into situations where they are denied HD installs due to line of sight issues. it will be a common problem for a lot of customers and could end up hurting Directv.

 

[Silvia2112]

I had the same issue the first time. I was quite upset since I wanted the extra HD channels. I went up on the roof with the guy and he was correct. I am sitting pretty close to a line of trees. He did recommend I install it on a pole on the other side of the trees. I lag bolted two 4x4 posts and buried them 3 feet into the ground. He then mounted the satellite onto the posts. I get no signal less then 97 now. The pole is never going to move (100lbs of quickrete) and is more stable then if he screwed into my roof. I have never lost signal and all is well.

Moral of story is that he might be correct - but look at other options.

 

[IcEWoLF]

Well, at least I don't feel alone in this. Thank you so much for your responses. I posted on one of the forums on DirecTV's website as well and a lot of people have had the same problem. One guy even had to resort to just buying the equipment and installing it himself.

We actually don't have a 3 LNB dish - it's an old single. However, we do get 96-97% tuning on it and it seems to be pointed in the same direction of the tree he thought would be the biggest problem.

I guess we'll keep our fingers crossed that the next guy will do a complete survey and will be willing to spend a little more time on this. I know when I called DirecTV they seemed annoyed that the installer was only here for a grand total of maybe 5 minutes (in other words - they knew he didn't even try).

Wish us luck

Great, keep us updated and see how the installation goes.

 

[Andrewwski]

I can't imagine there's a spot that would work with a 3 LNB but not with a 5 LNB.

99 and 103 are so close to 101.

 

[raoul5788]

the problem is that a lot of guys are new to the 5lnb dishes. they are taught that they need a broad spectrum to hit all the birds in the sky. 99 and 103 do sit lower over the horizon then the other 3. so if an installer sees trees he is taught to assume "no go" i would say half the time they are right.

in his defense, a lot of people are running into situations where they are denied HD installs due to line of sight issues. it will be a common problem for a lot of customers and could end up hurting Directv.

It's not true that 99 and 103 are lower than the other 3 sats. If you are east of Texas then 99 is higher than 101 and 103 is lower, but only slightly. If you are west, then the opposite is true.

 

[iwc5893]

We actually don't have a 3 LNB dish - it's an old single. However, we do get 96-97% tuning on it and it seems to be pointed in the same direction of the tree he thought would be the biggest problem.

I guess we'll keep our fingers crossed that the next guy will do a complete survey and will be willing to spend a little more time on this. I know when I called DirecTV they seemed annoyed that the installer was only here for a grand total of maybe 5 minutes (in other words - they knew he didn't even try).

Wish us luck

And this could be the problem. If you have the single LNB dish, it is pointing at the 101 sat. While this won't be a problem for the 99/103 sats, it does not ensure that you are going to be able to see the 110 and 119 sats. If the installer can not get a LOS to all 5 sats, then he won't install it.

While the single LNB dish points to the same area as the 5 LNB, the 5 LNB needs a bigger arc in the sky to see all sats. It will require a 30 degree window from east to west, and a 10 degree elevation window to get all sats without problems.

I would also like to point out that most iexperienced installers can tell when they pull up to a house if there is going to be a LOS issue or not. It may have been that you got a hack installer, or it may have been that you actually got somebody that knew what they were doing. Either way, getting a second opinion is the correct way to go.

 

[pack-man]

It's not true that 99 and 103 are lower than the other 3 sats. If you are east of Texas then 99 is higher than 101 and 103 is lower, but only slightly. If you are west, then the opposite is true.

i'm in n.carolina and the technician told me otherwise. i'm pretty sure he stated that the 99 is low over the horizon for me. i could be wrong. whatever the case, if certain birds are sitting lower than the original, it could hurt D* in the long run with people wanting to upgrade, especially the further north you get.

 

[raoul5788]

i'm in n.carolina and the technician told me otherwise. i'm pretty sure he stated that the 99 is low over the horizon for me. i could be wrong. whatever the case, if certain birds are sitting lower than the original, it could hurt D* in the long run with people wanting to upgrade, especially the further north you get.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the installer is wrong. I know, it's hard to believe! From North Carolina, the 99 sat appears the highest in the sky, and the 119 the lowest.

 

[pack-man]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the installer is wrong. I know, it's hard to believe! From North Carolina, the 99 sat appears the highest in the sky, and the 119 the lowest.

perhaps it was the 119 that he mentioned. either way, there was one that sat low enough to bring some tall pines about 100 yards away into the picture. i was shocked when he told me that. i back up to a golf course of all places with a nice open area for some S.W. viewing. i have to imagine that a lot of people will be having bad luck hitting the 119.