Unsatisfied with D*picture quality

[bilboa]

I had Charter cable for quite a while and finally decided to cancel them and try DBS in hopes of getting better picture quality, but it seems that all I did was trade one set of problems for another.

With cable, some of the analog channels were unsatisfactory. They had what I think is called video noise with a lot of squiggly lines dancing around on the screen. It wasn't too bad on my two smaller TV sets, but on my 60" Pioneer rear projector TV to me it was virtually unwatchable. I complained to Charter and they offered to come and install an amplifier although I am sure that the problem had nothing to do with signal strength. As a matter of fact, amplifiers add signal noise, so an amp would have probably made matters worse, not better. In disgust at the ignorance of the customer services rep at Charter that I talked to I canceled and subscribed to D*. I chose them since I was considering signing up for their NFL package.

Well, anyway, to make a long story short, I'm not satisfied with my picture from D* either. I'm not getting noise anymore, but instead I get either pixalization or video artifacts or whatever it's called. You'll have to excuse me. I'm not technically too inclined and I may not be up to speed with the correct terminology, but what I am seeing, especially on scenes with dark backgrounds, is sort of a smudging effect. Where there should be constant black sometimes there are unwanted blotches on the screen.

Needless to say, I am frustrated and I'm not sure what to do. Is there anywhere that I can finally get acceptable picture quality, or do I just have to live with this crap?

I don't think there is a problem with my equipment or the installation. The signal strength is in the low 90's. I see the problem most on my big screen TV, but it's also noticeable on my 13" Sony CRT TV. It's least noticeable on my Sanyo 15" LCD TV (I have three outlets altogether) but nevertheless I am not satisfied.

I have tried turning down the sharpness to try to minimize the problem, but of course when I do that it makes the picture blurrier.

Does anyone know if there is anything I can do about this? Am I just too picky? The thing that makes me most mad is that D* advertises that they have 100% digital "quality," but IMO it's not quality when I have smudges on the screen on dark scenes. And the kicker is that the problem seems worse on the HBO channels. Curiously, some of the junk channels like the shopping channels seem better than the HBO channels.

Does anyone know if Dish Network might give me better results? I signed up for a one year commitment with D*, but can I get out of it if I tell them I am unsatisfied with the service and offer to send the equipment back?

Thanks for your help.

John

 

[damaged]

The 'smudging' comes from the compression, the dropouts are from bandwidth starvation, DirecTV is in the process of adding new satellites which will open up the bandwidth more and hopefully be able to tune down the compression, they are also going toward mpeg4 compression instead of the mpeg2 being used now, which will (presumably) make for a much better picture.

 

[wolfman]

I think you may have some other problem. I don't have any of those problems. With a digital signal the strength of the signal only comes in play when it rains. With a digital signal you either have a picture or you don't. If this a self install I would call D* and have a tech come out and check it out. I've had D* since 1998 and am very satisfied with there service. My TV's range in size from 55" to 19" and great picture on all of them.

 

[bilboa]

It was not a self install. It was professionally installed, however, I guess that doesn't necessarily mean that it was installed correctly. I did a net search and according to some web sites that I read this problem with compression is acknowledged, and others have complained about it too. So I'm not sure if it's a problem with the installation or not. I also read that the problem is more noticeable on some TV models than others. But again, I'm no expert.

And I do have to say that all in all, it is better than what I was getting with cable. I'm just wondering if it might be an installation problem, or perhaps Dish Network works better. I also read that some people claim that Dish Network uses less compression. Do you know if that's true or not?

 

[damaged]

Regarding Dish Network compression being less (i.e. better quality) than that of DirecTVs, your findings would seem to be accurate based on concensus (I never had Dish Network) along with the same consensus it seems DirecTVs equipment is thought to be superior to Dish Networks (especially, it seems, their DVRs), again, they(DirecTV) are expanding their bandwidth and updating their compression technologies so they should end up with a equal or better picture quality than Dish.

Dish Network, from what I gather, has made no recent major moves to expand there offerings while DirecTV is, however, whether DirecTV will 'do it right' remains to be seen.

 

[wolfman]

When I started with with D* in 1998 as far as I know there was no talk about compression. All I can tell you is that if I was having the problems you are I would have ditched D* a long time ago. Still with D*. Have it checked out. Compression is not the problem as far as I am concerned. GOOD LUCK. WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO CABLE!!!!!

 

[damaged]

There is absolutely compression issues (just do a search on it, there's gobs of complaints on it), I see the black smudges (it is caused due to the lossyness of compression, it's the same you would see on a low bandwidth mpeg movie stream on your computer) on alot of channels, the amount of compression and the channels it appears on varies according to the available bandwidth (since they dynamically (de)allocate channels daily), I've noticed it since day 1 of my subscription (and every person whom I know with DirecTV), you may not have the optical acumen to see it, or your TV aliases it well.

Just look for a scene where there is a person and the background is black, you'll see a mosaic of dark greys dancing around (some channels have it more than others and at different times). I don't think his is an installation problem.

 

[bilboa]

I appreciate the input from both Damaged and Wolfman.

You know, it's funny because my wife doesn't see any problem. She says the picture is fine. Yet I see it and it bugs me. But for that matter, she didn't ever complain about the picture when we had cable either, although now that we have D* she does say that it looks better.

 

[damaged]

Well those people who can't see it are damn lucky in my book

By the way I haven't noticed much pixelation tonite, I watch the same channels (all non-premium channels) in the same sequence every night, less channels allocated=more bandwidth=less compression=better quality. Now when there's 100 games on, it'll be back.

 

[FlyingJ]

Bilboa, seems you are as picky as i am about pic quality. Nip it in the bud and get yourself up to HD! No doubt that the standard def on D* has gotten worse over time. Back when it started, clear as a bell. I believe that these issues will be resolved in the next 6 months with the added bandwith. But again, go HD you will never look back.

 

[vurbano]

Bilboa, seems you are as picky as i am about pic quality. Nip it in the bud and get yourself up to HD! No doubt that the standard def on D* has gotten worse over time. Back when it started, clear as a bell. I believe that these issues will be resolved in the next 6 months with the added bandwith. But again, go HD you will never look back.

I agree but stay away from D* HDlite. They currently have the worst HD PQ available IMO.

 

[bilboa]

Well, one of the things I wondered about in my original post was whether or not I am too picky. I realize that I am never going to be able to get an absolutely pristine picture on every channel because there just are too many variables.

As far as HDTV goes, I am sure that I will eventually go that route, but at present many of my favorite and most watched channels are not available in HD yet and may not be for some time. If I had HD now I would probably still be complaining about inferior picture quality on the non HD channels. And all you have to do is read discussions about HD on these very message boards for a minute or two to start to see complaints about HD picture quality too. Some people who upgrade to HD are disappointed with it just like I was disappointed when I subscribed to D*. A common complaint is that it doesn't look as good at home as it did in the video store. I know that there are various reasons for this and that there may be workarounds for many of these problems, but nevertheless, until there are a lot more HD channels available than there are now I think I'll wait.

 

[mmulet]

No, I don't think you're being too picky. I bet the picture is fine on your smaller sets, and that the problem is only with your large set. Most cable/satellite providers optimize their signal for the most common TV's out there - 27". When you increase the picture size (like your 60"), you are able to see the compression artifacts on regular SD programming.

If you have an HD set, it probably does great with an HD signal, but worse on an SD signal. Unfortunately, some sets are better than others, but most HDTV's don't do well with SD (Standard Definition) signals due to the fact that the SD signal is optimized for smaller TV's.

Hope that helps.

mmulet

 

[damaged]

It also matters how close/far you are when you watch that big screen, too close on big screen tends to not look so good.

I myself am waiting for HD to become more common before investing in it.

 

[sltmag]

It would help to know your screen sizes and type of TV. Use a calibration DVD like Avia or Video Essentials. Your contrast may be set too high, etc. On my HD set, the standard def channels look fine. Then again, it was professionally calibrated. On a 27" crt, the standard def channels look great. Much better than cable. How is your TV connected? Do you have SVHS inputs you can use? Do not use the RF input if you can avoid it.

As far as E* goes, there is compression. It just shows itself differently. I prefer the picture with D* and that is why I stayed with them. That and YES.

 

[bilboa]

Like I said in my original post, I have a 60" Pioneer SD-P5182 rear projector TV, a 13" Sony Wega CRT TV, and a 15" Sanyo CLT1554 LCD TV. I have the Pioneer connected via RCA jacks since it doesn't have S-video. The other two TV's are connected via S-video. I already realized that using the RF output is not a good idea. I see artifacts, apparently resulting from compression, on all three sets, but it's most noticeable with the Pioneer and the Sony. I don't think it has anything to do with calibration, and I have already played around with adjusting contrast, brightness and sharpness settings.

It's in the signal that I get from D* in the first place. Just to check out my theory I went to a local Radio Shack dealer that has D* connected up to a 27" tube type TV set for demonstration purposes and I was able to notice the same problem on that TV too. I am more and more convinced that this problem is a direct result from their selfishness in trying to market more channels than they have sufficient bandwidth for.

Unfortunately, like I indicated before, the local cable franchise, Charter, puts out a horrendous picture on analog channels so unless Dish network provides me with a better picture I am afraid I'm stuck.

There are no reliable OTA signals here either, just some low powered translators that are out of service a lot, and there are no OTA digital signals. Anytime there is a snowstorm it seems to knock out their transmitters located on a nearby hill.

Maybe I should just stick to watching DVD's if I want an acceptable picture.

 

[nytevizion]

Theres no problem with the tv's settings, its not signal strength its not sitting too close to the TV.

The SD picture quality is just plain terrible. They must figure that more people have smaller sets and just dont notice it.. I can see it from 15 feet away from my 55 inch, its fuzzy and compressed and I can see it on my 27 inch SD crt. I cannot watch standard def on my bigscreen unless its on my local digital feeds which i have an external antenna for. Its like watching bad clips on the internet.

I hope that DTV fixes this when mpeg4 is enabled...

 

[ArtWIS]

Theres no problem with the tv's settings, its not signal strength its not sitting too close to the TV.

The SD picture quality is just plain terrible. They must figure that more people have smaller sets and just dont notice it.. I can see it from 15 feet away from my 55 inch, its fuzzy and compressed and I can see it on my 27 inch SD crt. I cannot watch standard def on my bigscreen unless its on my local digital feeds which i have an external antenna for. Its like watching bad clips on the internet.

I hope that DTV fixes this when mpeg4 is enabled...

Not that I doubt that others are having problems with SD and HD PQ on D* but I've had D* for 5 1/2 years and have always had very good PQ. TV's here at present are older 25" and 27" both crt's and a 5 month old Sony 46" HD RP/CRT. The 2 older sets have D10-300 STB's and the Sony has a H10 STB. Nearly all SD I get from D* is VERY good including the Sony and HD is awesome on the sony also. I get HD from D* + all my locals OTA (56 miles away) and it all looks great. I see some posts that their HD from D* breaks up, smears, and is full of artifacts etc. but I never have had that happen. Maybe it's my location which is on the highest hill in the township with a perfectly clear shot to the satellites and my OTA locals. There's nothing special about our installation or equipment. Maybe it's that our HD sony is a 46" and not a 55" or 60". I wish I could help others get better D* PQ but I can't see what's different from the way I'm setup. I've seen plenty of other D* SD and HD setups as well as E* setups here in central WI and they have all looked pretty darn good. No cable here in rural wisconsin to compare with. I'm happy and looking forward to D* getting even better than it is now and hope the new D* changes coming help out those who are getting crummy PQ now.

 

[nytevizion]

Its not just directv, I can see it with dish network on my friends system, and I can see the compression on the local comcast digital cable that my mom has... Obviously its way less noticable on a smaller set, and way more noticable on a digital hd set, but its still there regardless of what you are viewing it on... Sometimes the interlacing of older big screen SD sets make it look a little better, but Im still not satisfied with that... Hell certain DVD's are even in crap quality compared to others... And Im really p/o'ed about that also..

Like I said, when I view the local OTA digital Standard def broadcasts, the PQ is 100 percent better than DTV..

I was going to switch to a different provider but realized that I would see no difference unless I went with a C-band Big dish, and thats not going to happen where Im at.

The stream is what it is, if you arent getting good reception, you arent getting a picture...It doesnt get downgraded at your box because of a weak signal, you either get it or you dont..

 

[Van]

Find a local retailer or dealer that has dishnetwork on a display set and check it out.