TT S2-3200

[taelon721]

I am wanting to get more serious with FTA, and am wanting to get FTA HD, especially the different types of feeds. I have been looking at the TT S2-3200. Or is there any other suggestions? I am a poor boy, and have only one shot at buying a new card. Currently have the Twinhan 1030A.

Also, do any of our sponsors sell these HD cards? I wish Sadoun and SatelliteAV had them. I love given these guys my money, as they have NEVER let me down in support, as they treated me as a friend the first time I talked to both of them.

Thanks for the help. I just started using PC DVB stuff as of 2 weeks ago, so I am still a newbie using MT, TS, and VLC.

Also, is my Elecard and NVidia working? I installed them, and they are listed as programs in the control panel, but do not show up in MT under DirectShow Filters.

 

[pokerplayer_]

Hi,
the tt3200 will allow you to receive dvb-s2 signals in addition to the signals you're already getting via your twinhan, so I suppose it all depends on what you're after.

With more and more feeds and networks switching to s2 a card such as the tt3200 is a must for any satellite hobbyist. I've had mine for over a year and it was well worth the money (there are of course other cards capable of demodulating dvb-s2 out there).

From what I've been reading MT has become quite obsolete and does not support s2. On the other hand tsreader and mpc or vlc will do the trick - personally I would suggest mpc as vlc seems to butcher the pic.

Paul

 

[ACRadio]

I'll chime in with PokerPlayer and say that I don't regret my S2-3200 purchase at all, and I've been working with DVB cards for many years. I grow more and more disappointed with Saar, the author of MyTheatre, and I've waited for Rod to get BDA driver support working for TSReader but it's still not available yet. I took the plunge today and went with DVBViewer, and am seeing absolutely perfect h.264 on DVB-S2, but a lot of computer horsepower is necessary. It is the cutting edge for the hobbyist...

 

[starman345]

I'll chime in with PokerPlayer and say that I don't regret my S2-3200 purchase at all, and I've been working with DVB cards for many years. I grow more and more disappointed with Saar, the author of MyTheatre, and I've waited for Rod to get BDA driver support working for TSReader but it's still not available yet. I took the plunge today and went with DVBViewer, and am seeing absolutely perfect h.264 on DVB-S2, but a lot of computer horsepower is necessary. It is the cutting edge for the hobbyist...

How is the S2-3200 for moving a dish? I might buy one if I thought it could handle Usals and diseqc1.2 commands.
Taelon, I'm using a Dvbworld USB 2104 and it works well with Dvbviewer, twinhan also has an S2 model, I think its the 400,

 

[brentb636]

AC,
How about writing up a review of that TT s2-3200 for the reviews section ? We'd love to have your input on it, and a more formal presentation, with your impressions would help a lot of us. Clearly , we're all struggling with decisions regarding DVB-s2. It's here now, getting stronger, but nobody has much confidence in any of the available current solutions.

 

[ACRadio]

I'd be glad to but it might take me a few days...so just bear with me. There's a lot to say about it that might help clear the "S2 air"...

 

[brentb636]

I like clear air !! ( One of the sweet things about YOUR area in NC ) .

 

[taelon721]

DVBcard HD comparison

Could someone please post a DVBcard HD comparison chart of the main cards? Like what HD formats they support. If I am going to spend $200 plus for a card, and have to get a Dual or Quad processor, I want to make sure that I buy a card that will do the most formats.

Kind of stinks to find out that just when I got MT working, I am going to have to switch to something else for the HD. As far as using the computer as a big satellite receiver, hooked up to an HD TV, which is the best software? DVBViewer, VLC, or what?

I had tried to get MT to go Full Screen, like I would want if hooked up to a TV, and it didn't look like it would do that.

As usual, thanks for the help guys. I have never seen another site, where newbies are helped to make things work, no matter how little their knowledge of FTA. Every member that posts should feel proud to be a member of the Satelliteguys community.

 

[Stefan]

I have been looking at the TT S2-3200. Or is there any other suggestions? I am a poor boy, and have only one shot at buying a new card. Currently have the Twinhan 1030A.

If that's the case it might be best to wait just a bit and see if better alternatives come along. I own a tt3200, a tt3600 (the usb tuner), and a dvbworld dvb-s2 usb tuner and none of them are perfect. They all have issues. If I had to rate them I'd say the DVBworld box is the best, but it's not yet supported by TSreader. The lack of Tsreader support is it's biggest issue. Otherwise it seems to be a pretty decent piece of hardware. If Rod added Tsreader support for it, I'd probably stop using the other 2.

As for the TT3200 it works pretty good and I don't regret purchasing it as it works with Tsreader and doesn't have any major bugs that inhibit it's functionality, but it seems to be somewhat deaf in comparison to other tuners that support DVB-S2. This seems to be particularly true on 8psk signals. If you have a really large dish (at least 10-12') this might not be an issue, if not you might find it will refuse to lock a lot of 8psk signals. This happens when other DVB-S2 devices have no trouble locking the same signals from the same dish. Bottom line is the TT3200 seems to need a very clean signal to lock dvb-s2 8psk signals. This is it's only flaw that I've noticed.

As for the TT3600, which is the usb version, it seems to better than the TT3200 with regard to locking signals but has a even more serious flaw. It has a bug that manifests itself on high data rate signals (usually 8psk signals with high symbol rates). It will lock the signal but will be able to deliver no data packets to Tsreader. This pretty much makes it useless on 8psk signals as most pf them are high data rate signals, since the main reason they use 8psk is to deliver more data. It's said that this issue is related to the WDM driver which must be used to make this device work with Tsreader and that the BDA driver is not affected by this issue. For this reason Rod has said he will look into adding support for the BDA driver to workaround this issue. If this happens then the TT3600 might become a better choice than the TT3200. Anyway, if I were you I'd wait to see if either support for the DVBworld tuners or the TT3600 using the BDA driver is added to TSreader and maybe consider either of those instead of the TT3200.

 

[ACRadio]

Could someone please post a DVBcard HD comparison chart of the main cards? Like what HD formats they support. If I am going to spend $200 plus for a card, and have to get a Dual or Quad processor, I want to make sure that I buy a card that will do the most formats.

Kind of stinks to find out that just when I got MT working, I am going to have to switch to something else for the HD. As far as using the computer as a big satellite receiver, hooked up to an HD TV, which is the best software? DVBViewer, VLC, or what?

I had tried to get MT to go Full Screen, like I would want if hooked up to a TV, and it didn't look like it would do that.

As usual, thanks for the help guys. I have never seen another site, where newbies are helped to make things work, no matter how little their knowledge of FTA. Every member that posts should feel proud to be a member of the Satelliteguys community.

The HD formats themselves aren't a product of the card...they are a product of the computer and the amount of horsepower it has and how it's set up....I said that to say this...

A set top box has 2 main sections...the tuner/demodulator and the stream parser. The tuner can only tune the modulation types (data streams) it is designed for, such as DVB-S, DVB-S2, DCII, and some others, along with their variants of error correcting such as QPSK, Turbo 8PSK, Trellis 8PSK, 16QAM, etc. The demodulator takes the transport stream that has been tuned by the tuner and sends it to the stream parser to extract the information from the stream and then it separates that information into useful things like video and audio and maybe teletext or data, and spits it out the back of the receiver in a form our TV's can digest.

Now think of a DVB card this way...it is only the TUNER/DEMOD section, while the computer is the stream parser. The software in the computer is in effect the equivalent of the bin file, or software in the set top box, since it does the controlling of the tuner. The the set top box has fixed video decoders. All consumer STB's can handle regular ol' MPEG2 4:2:0 standard definition, but some can now handle 4:2:0 high definition as well as h.264 MPEG4. Only one receiver that I know of other than a commercial receiver can handle 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 SD and HD, but it can't do MPEG4 compression. A computer with big horsepower can be set up with decoders that can handle virtually anything needed by almost any hobbyist...4:2:0 and 4:2:2 SD and HD, MPEG2 and MPEG4...it's so much more versatile. And when something new comes down the road the computer would be very likely to be adapted.

We only need to be concerned with the modulation type when thinking about DVB cards, and now we have 2 main flavors...DVB-S and DVB-S2. There are a couple of USB dongles that can deal with more, but honestly they don't give the true hobbyist any more of an advantage, and there is a particular card that can lock a DSS stream, but I don't see a need for that either.

As I have said I am disappointed with Saar as there are now DVB programs that are far and above MT. I used TSReader extensively and love the software even though it's expensive. But while Rod has promised to have the software running on BDA drivers, you still have to use the old WDM drivers. I have switched to DVBViewer, and after playing with it for a couple of days I like it well, even though it has a few minor quirks. As far as playing normal MPEG2 HD, MyTheatre works just fine for me. But the new beta version that is supposed to do h.264 has a long way to go to be polished for a major release. DVBViewer has worked well with a particular DVB-S2 h.264 HD signal with great playback.

One quick thing about the TT S2-3200 is there seems to be some differences in performance between older models and the newer ones. I have compared my 3200 to some set top boxes that are known to have sensitive tuners, and there was only about 3/4db s/n difference...much better than any Twinhan I ever had. Also it could have something to do with the difference between the old WDM drivers and the newer BDA drivers.

 

[taelon721]

DVBViewer

Looks like I will be installing DVBViewer tonight, if there is a trial version. I can't wait.

 

[ACRadio]

There isn't a trial version but you can dload the transponder editor that will allow you to check your hardware for compatability and even preview the scanned channel with your selection of whatever codecs are installed on your machine.

One feature I really like with DVBViewer is the "stretch" feature. On the NBC 4:2:2 feeds on AMC 1 KU the picture format is such that a space is visible at the top that is an annoying bunch of flashing garbage that is in reality a section of data in the VBI. The software allows the stretching of the picture to the point that the garbage at the top disappears.

 

[barret]

Nice review AC. Thank you for taking the time.

I also use the TT3200 and have only used DVBViewer from the outset. I ended up this way because my original setup was with the Technisat Skysatr2 card and it came with a Technisat version of DVBViewer so I was familiar with it. Besides doing S2 another nice thing about the 3200 is it comes with the Cyberlink software which includes the h.264 codec. No need to purchase one. With the paid version of DVBViewer you have access to the customer section which gives you a selection of free downloads one of which is the TransEdit software which is needed to input and tune DVB-S2 Another great feature of DVBViewer is the screenshot option. With one click of the mouse you can snapshot any live picture and it is automatically saved to the video folder. Two more clicks and you have yourself a new desktop background.

On the TSReader aspect I like it a lot. My subscription is due for renewal but with still no Vista driver support for the 3200 and no h.264 from VLC it makes DVBViewer a good choice for now. As far as processor usage I find with a dual core AMD 6600 and Vista I have no issues. I can view HD, run an AVG scan and be connected to the net all at once. That is pushing it though. With the right codec, in my case only one extra was needed for 4:2:2. I use Etymonix Softreel .There was an issue with no deinterlacing support. Miguel from Etymonix jumped on it and I was able to help test the Alpha version. Now the Beta version is out for public. It performs flawlessly with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 with relatively low processor usage.

Stefan wrote:
but it seems to be somewhat deaf in comparison to other tuners that support DVB-S2. This seems to be particularly true on 8psk signals.

My experience seems to be just the opposite as far as tuner strength. I can tune and lock S2 and 8PSK feeds with this that I have trouble grabbing with the Pansat 9200HD equipped with the factory 8PSK module. It also seems to be more forgiving as to having to be dead on with the frequency and symbol rates. I find the tuner to be exceptionally good. Yesterdays Nascar feed on AMC4 was a good test. The 9200 was in and out but the 3200 kept a strong lock with no breakup from start to finish. Like AC mentioned this could be inherent to the model or release of the card. Some may have stronger tuner than others.

When I first got into the DVB card I was hesitant but now I use it more than my any of my FTA receivers because it is the only setup so far that does everything in one package. (DVB, DVB-S2, 4:2:2, h.264 and a complete PVR.)

 

[starman345]

I had tried to get MT to go Full Screen, like I would want if hooked up to a TV, and it didn't look like it would do that.

In settings select one of the ivr modes, then press F12 to adjust your picture settings. Also, you can hold down the left mouse button and use the scroll wheel to adjust the size of your picture, that will work in non-ivr mode as well.

 

[ACRadio]

http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpeg2-equipment-reviews/144311-life-love-technotrend-s2-3200-a.html

 

[Stefan]

My comments with regard to the tuner on the TT3200 are with regard to s2 8psk signals and in comparison to a Pansat 9000, Coolsat 8000, and DVBworld usb dvb-s2 device. I don't own a Pansat 9200. So, I can't compare it, but everything I've heard indicates the 9000 is better. So, perhaps the TT3200 is as good or better than the 9200. Anyway, with regard to regular DVB-s Qpsk signals, I agree that the TT3200 seems to do as good if not better than most other devices. For me it's the dvb-s2 8psk signals that the TT3200 seems to be a bit deaf on, particularly those with less favorable FEC rates like 9/10. That's not to say that I haven't locked those types signals on the TT3200, I have, it's just that it seems to need a better signal (read bigger dish) to do so without continuity errors.

Yesterdays Nascar feed on AMC4 was a good test.

if I'm not mistaken that signals was regular DVB-S Qpsk and not DVB-S2 8psk which is what I'm referring to.

I'm not saying the TT3200 is a bad product. I don't regret purchasing the one I own. I'm just saying there may be better products yet to come and perhaps even already out there, like the DVBworld dvb-S2 tuner. I think most of us who brought the TT3200 were early adopters who wanted to be on the bleeding edge and with the TT3200 being the first card to support DVB-S2 readily available and supported by Tsreader that's what we bought. The first isn't always the best in the long run and for those who aren't on the bleeding edge and/or can't afford to be it might be better to wait for better products to come along.

 

[Smith P.]

The demodulator takes the transport stream that has been tuned by the tuner and extracts the information from the stream and separates that information into useful things like video and audio and maybe teletext or data, and spits it out the back of the receiver in a form our TV's can digest.

Nope, demod chip doing exactly how it's named plus error correction. On output of it we have TS [packets] and some flags relates to the packets.
After demod begin working software, like TSReader, etc. In STB the TS processing by special IMDE (like BCM7038 or STi 55xx) and does filtering, decoding, processing, etc.

 

[ACRadio]

Amended to move the demod back to the card...it is true the carrier is stripped before going to the computer.

 

[barret]

Quote:
but it seems to be somewhat deaf in comparison to other tuners that support DVB-S2. This seems to be particularly true on 8psk signals.

I understood this as you were comparing to both DVB-S2 and 8psk so my response was directed to both.

You are correct the AMC 4 feed was standard DVB-QPSK.

 

[brentb636]

From the comments above, and AC's fine review, I'm going to sell my TT s2-3600 on ebay ( It doesn't get along well with my skywalker-1, overwrote the skywalker firmware somehow ) and then buy a s2-3200 for additional feed choices. The TT s2-3600 is working fine on my laptop, but the laptop doesn't have enough horsepower for a "REAL man's " dvb-s2 feed. I picked up a Coolsat 8000 recently for dvb-s2 and HD, so all I need the s2-3200 for is 4:2:2 DVB-s2 feeds. This is getting pretty complex, you know. No box supports everything.