TS Format File Size???

[Lone Gunman]

Back a year or more ago I posted some questions about TS format files and was looking to reduce the size and change them to .MPG format for use with these S9 and Micro HD PVRs. At that time the NBC feeds on both 105W and 103W were two I recorded as a backup of WVGN on 99W. IIRC those files on 103W were very LARGE @ 6 to7GB and time consuming to work with and the WVGN TS files were in the normal 1.5 to 1.8GB range.

So that new satellite got swapped out on 103W and last week I recorded The Blacklist there as a backup for the first time this season and that TS format file is 9.13GB????? Same program on all and on 105W it was the usual 5.5GB? This begs the question of why are they so large when the ones from WVGN aren't anywhere near that size and are H264??

 

[Magic Static]

My guess is you are recording the entire (Transport Stream) TS and not just the PIDs for the channel you want. The more stuff in the stream the larger the file.

 

[kofi123]

Since a TS file is a raw recording of the stream being decoded by a receiver, the size of the file will depend on the bit rates of the video, audio, and any ancillary data recorded into the file. The three sources you mention recording from are each running at different bit rates (from lowest to highest - WVGN, NBC on 105°W, and NBC on 103°W). That is also why an hour long recording will get larger and larger in that same order.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Last night The Blacklist on 103W was over 10GB and that new 500GB hard drive I got choked and the Micro HD said it was too slow? Quickly put on another one with a 16mb cache and it went ahead and recorded on that one? I guess that's what I get for buying a "cheap" drive hey!

So can someone "splain" to me why there is such a large difference in the bit rate between these satellites for the same program?

 

[Titanium]

The TS size is determined by the amount of bandwidth and FEC rate used by the uplinker to encode the service. The quality of the video and audio can be quite different between two services with identical resolution and format. One service may have a lower bandwidth as it is encoded with lower video quality, lower audio quality or audio types.

To understand the allocation of the transport stream use TS analyzer software to view the table/pids and how much bandwidth is allocated to each part of the stream.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Thanks all/Brian.

You'll have to forgive me if some of these questions seem kinda dumb. I'm a gear head computer nerd but have very limited knowledge of how these "ups and downs" work with this satellite stuff.

I guess what my real question was/is, isn't this overkill? I've watched that program on 103W (10+GB), 105W (6.5GB) and 99W (1.7Gb) on a 55" HD flat screen and I can't see any visible difference in picture quality between them?

Doesn't requiring more bandwidth on the satellite to do this make it way more expensive?

 

[harshness]

The TS size is determined by the amount of bandwidth and FEC rate used by the uplinker to encode the service.

The FEC and other transmission overhead should come out of the equation once the stream passes through the tuner and has been demultiplexed.

The TS file should be mostly raw program data that may include SAP, CC and other supporting information related to that particular program.

Many would be surprised by how much bandwidth complex audio schemes require.

 

[Titanium]

Engineers and number crunchers undoubtably argue over what is overkill. What the human eye sees on a consumer TV is not necessarily the same as what is necessary for a broadcaster to process, convert and deliver the content.

The NBC link budget is for a very large chunk of spectrum and is not purchased in small closely monitored slices from a broker. Statistical multiplexers are likely used and bandwidth is allocated based on motion, complexity and optimization. The link budget lease is the same for transmitting black video with no audio for 16 hours each day or filling every Khz with seemingly useless data...

 

[KE4EST]

black video with no audio for 16 hours each day

Hey sometimes that is my favorite show!
.................Until I forget it is on and the loud beeeeeeeeep scares the crap out of me.

 

[Cham]

I have recorded on both as well, and if you want real nice HD the 103 is the best but converting to MP3 takes quite a bit longer. Also the audio has to be set to channel 4 AID left only (I think) or you get messed up audio, and not Dolby like the 99w feed. You have to decide which is best with your equipment and likes/dislikes... real nice HD picture with mediocre audio or a mediocre HD picture with Dolby...

Actualy watched that show, it's not bad...

 

[waylew]

Look at it this way,the network is feeding the station with the best quality information.What the station does with it after that is up to them.
Watch your local affiliate OTA station with compression/sub channels and possibly bad engineering choices and then watch the same show on the network feed.The difference is amazing.Even on a 25 year old not HD Sony crt I can see the difference,but on the Sony lcd it can be stunning.

 

[FaT Air]

Try recording in PS instead of TS. You'll find the recordings much smaller.
PS only records the desired program (channel) in the (TS) stream.
TS records ALL programs (channels) in the Transponder Stream. (And ancillary data)
TS = Transponder Stream
PS = Program Stream

 

[Titanium]

Just an observation about recording PS vs TS on a STB... Occasionally on larger and complex muxes selecting PS mode will cause recording problems. Some devices don't have the horse power to handle the additional processing. I recall discussions of several models experiencing dropped frames and stuttering in the PS mode.

 

[KJ6EO]

Lone ... I think others have adequately described what the problem might be. I don't know the Science behind TS files, but I have dealt with them quite a bit. Since I don't record anything less than full HD, my files are always huge, so I have TB's of space on the Server I use to handle them. I'd like to recommend a program that I use called "TS Doctor by Cypheros". It's not freeware, but it does have a free trial. It's a Checking, Merging, Editing, Fixing program for TS files. Before scrubbing my TS Files with TS Doctor, those raw TS files were just driving my Video Editing Software nuts. I'd like to also recommend an inexpensive program (has free trial) called Windershare Video Converter Ultimate. It's fast and will convert just about anything to anything.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Phat/Brian I've got PS enabled on these Micro HDs but they WON'T do PS on these HD feeds. Popup comes on and says something about having to use TS instead.

KJ6EO, I gave up on trying to convert these things over a year ago. Back then I tried a couple of those "free trial" editing programs but they didn't do what I needed them to do so I just gave up and bought a larger hard drive. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[Titanium]

On the micro, only PS is available for HD recording.

 

[FaT Air]

Yup, you're right. HD will only record in TS. That was with the S9. Haven't recorded much with the Amiko HDSE but have a feeling it's going to be the same. Have you tried using VLC to convert them to mpg/mp4? (wish there was a batch conversion available. (might be in the current version?? Don't know as haven't done any in the last year)

 

[KJ6EO]

Phat/Brian I've got PS enabled on these Micro HDs but they WON'T do PS on these HD feeds. Popup comes on and says something about having to use TS instead.

KJ6EO, I gave up on trying to convert these things over a year ago. Back then I tried a couple of those "free trial" editing programs but they didn't do what I needed them to do so I just gave up and bought a larger hard drive. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Lone ... The way I got around the TS file problem was to install a frame grabber card (has HDMI input) on the Server I use for Video Editing. I just frame grab whatever I want in MPEG-2. MPEG-2 is widely accepted and easily handled by most Video Editing Softwares. And easily reencoded and converted to whatever. I didn't run in to any HDCP problems on FTA.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Have you tried using VLC to convert them to mpg/mp4?

Yup in both Winders and Linux, it was hit or miss just like the rest.

On the micro, only PS is available for HD recording.

Ah, if you're talking about a Geosat Pro Micro HD I think it's the other way around Brian?? Neither of the two I have will record HD in PS format?? They both default to TS for HD. At least they won't for a 1 hour HD program??


NJ6EO, yeah, that's all I need, ie, more stuff to buy and lean how to use?? Like I said, new hard drive for storage took care of it and when that one's full, I'll either delete some stuff or buy another one.

 

[Titanium]

Correct, sorry! Fat fingered that post!