Trouble pointing to AMC4

[markchadwick]

Hi, I bought a TANTV (The Asia Network) subscription and equipment for my mom. I decided to install it myself, since I previously successfully installed an 18" Dish Network dish before. I received a 76cm Winegard dish, a Powersat LNB and a Finepass receiver and Viaccess card. I installed the dish, LNB and receiver but can't lock in AMC4 at 101W. I think it's because I've been trying to point the dish using the 11860 transponder - I never get more than an 80 signal strength and I get no signal quality at all (zero). According to Iceberg I should point the dish using the 11822 or 12120 transponders, which are much stronger? Is this pretty much the only thing I'm doing wrong? I'm going to try pointing again using these stronger TPs next weekend, when I can make it out there. But if anyone has any other suggestions, I'm open to them.
BTW, she lives in Chicago, has a clear view of the southern sky, and I leveled the mast with a bubble level.
Also, am I the only one having trouble with compasses? I bought a cheap one at Walmart to point dishes, I used it successfully with the DN dish but I swear, the thing seems to point in different directions - sometimes 200 degrees will seem like due south, sometimes it'll look like it's south west. Am I doing something wrong or should I pony up some money for an expensive compass? It's amazing people used these things to guide themselves before GPS came along...
Thanks in advance for anyone willing to help a guy give his mom her Christmas gift...

 

[charper1]

I have used one of these heading (map) compasses for many years without fail; costs around $15; there are things in the electronics and housing world that can attract (throw off) your compass needle, so know the surroundings.

What is your location? Is this your true south satellite?

What are your aiming coordinates and skew setting?

Are you 110% sure you have the correct LNB settings in the receiver; or is there only one choice for this setup?

 

[Mr Tony]

Hi, I bought a TANTV (The Asia Network) subscription and equipment for my mom. I decided to install it myself, since I previously successfully installed an 18" Dish Network dish before. I received a 76cm Winegard dish, a Powersat LNB and a Finepass receiver and Viaccess card. I installed the dish, LNB and receiver but can't lock in AMC4 at 101W. I think it's because I've been trying to point the dish using the 11860 transponder - I never get more than an 80 signal strength and I get no signal quality at all (zero). According to Iceberg I should point the dish using the 11822 or 12120 transponders, which are much stronger?

11822 is the strongest of the two and will bury the needle as soon as you get close ot it. 12120 I would use 12120 to fine tune for optimum signal Make sure the info programmed in the box is correct.

Is this pretty much the only thing I'm doing wrong?

if you use a transponder that isnt active, you won't get any signal

I'm going to try pointing again using these stronger TPs next weekend, when I can make it out there. But if anyone has any other suggestions, I'm open to them.
BTW, she lives in Chicago, has a clear view of the southern sky, and I leveled the mast with a bubble level.
Also, am I the only one having trouble with compasses? I bought a cheap one at Walmart to point dishes, I used it successfully with the DN dish but I swear, the thing seems to point in different directions - sometimes 200 degrees will seem like due south, sometimes it'll look like it's south west. Am I doing something wrong or should I pony up some money for an expensive compass? It's amazing people used these things to guide themselves before GPS came along...

make sure you are away from all metal objects. Those little compasses will screw up if its near metal
using the numbers for Chicago, the dish elevation is 40...azimuth is 194 and skew is +14. The LNB needs to be skewed or the signal wont come in (see below picture)

194 is a little off of dead south. Get in the vicinity and make SMALL movements and wait until the quality meter moves. Thats what you need. Signal really means noithing in FTA...Its quality that you need

 

[Mr Tony]

forgot to mention about the LNB...Is there any numbers on it like a LNB LO frequency? You have to make sure the receiver is set up for the right LNB type

does it say LNB LO 10750 or 9750/10600??

 

[charper1]

Sorry I missed the Chicago reference; got all the words blurred together reading it. I see Berg picked it out thou.

 

[markchadwick]

thank you to everyone for the quick response

Sorry, I'm not at my mom's house right now so I can't verify the LNB LO (Linear Oscillator - I got that from your sticky, Iceberg) but I'll be sure to do that once I get out there this weekend or sooner. But yes, I do remember seeing the LO numbers on it, and the Finepass receiver had LO setting in the LNB Setup menu, so I'll confirm that the receiver settings match the LNB numbers (universal or standard, right?) once I get out there (this is what makes it so time consuming, I can't just fiddle with it every day, only about once a week).
And yes, the Azimuth is 199, Elevation 39.9, Skew +14.4 (the dish is about 40 miles north of Chicago). FACING THE DISH, I turned the LNB counterclockwise - is that right? Or am I supposed to turn it counterclockwise while I'm behind the dish, facing where it's pointing? Last time, I tried both ways, didn't seem to make much of a difference but then again I couldn't even find AMC4.
And Iceberg, I'll follow your advice about using one TP to point and the other to finetune, sounds like a very good idea.
I'm just glad that this seems possible without needing a $3,000 signal meter. I'm not a professional, I'm barely a newb, but this is a hobby that seems pretty cool. I could see myself in the future putting in a couple dishes with dish motors and an FTA receiver and just scanning the skies trying to pick up anything available - it's like fishing, sometimes you don't know what you're going to get... doesn't mean you're going to watch it but it's pretty cool knowing that 99% of people don't know this stuff is out there.

 

[markchadwick]

It's probably a good idea, if I keep up with this hobby, to buy a better compass (the walmart one I have cost $2). You're right, everytime I place it behind a dish facing south, the reading changes dramatically because of interference from the metal, I'm guessing. It is true, you get what you pay for.

 

[Mr Tony]

skew is right. Its counterclockwise if you are facing the dish

 

[markchadwick]

skew is right. Its counterclockwise if you are facing the dish

Thanks. At least I did one thing right. I'll let you guys know if I'm able to point it successfully. Fourth time's the charm, right?

 

[sunelec]

You might check with TANtv ( you can look up phone number on their internet site at tantv.com). Since this is a korean subscription service they usually have everything pre-programmed for their channels into the receiver before it is shipped from them to you. That includes the correct lnb settings for AMC4. I have a similar system but from KISB which is on IA5 and when I hit the right aiming point my picture automatically popped in. The receiver is capable of getting FTA but you would have to scan or manually program them in using the lyngsat charts.

 

[markchadwick]

You might check with TANtv ( you can look up phone number on their internet site at tantv.com). Since this is a korean subscription service they usually have everything pre-programmed for their channels into the receiver before it is shipped from them to you. That includes the correct lnb settings for AMC4. I have a similar system but from KISB which is on IA5 and when I hit the right aiming point my picture automatically popped in. The receiver is capable of getting FTA but you would have to scan or manually program them in using the lyngsat charts.

Thanks sunelec. I do recall seeing the channels preprogrammed in the receiver menu. I'll still verify the LNB settings, if only because I don't want to keep going up and down the ladder (the one thing I hate about satellite installing, the heights involved). Hopefully I'll get a picture; it's getting pretty cold out here but tomorrow should be sunny and in the 40's, so I might get out of work early and pop over to my mom's house to try a little more dish pointing.

 

[sunelec]

When you are rotating the dish using your compass and you show a rise in signal level but no picture it means you are likely in the right vicinity. Satellites IA5, G16 and AMC4 ( from east to west ) are all fairly close together. Good luck!

 

[Tron]

Honestly, a compass will get you in the general area, but you really will have to SLOWLY pan the dish east and west until you find a bird. From there, you can do a scan to see what channels are there (this will tell you what satellite you're on. As long as you know what direction south is, and your longitude, you can find it all without a compass. If there is a DirecTV or Dishnet dish in the neighborhood, taking note of its position is very helpful.

 

[sunelec]

Yes Tron I agree with you except as I said earlier this is a receiver provided by Tantv with a subscription (viaccess ) and the korean channels are preprogrammed in the receiver. So by rotating the dish by hand when he hits AMC4 ch1 of Tantv should just appear on his TV screen. So that makes it a little bit easier than just watching signal levels.

 

[markchadwick]

Duly noted, guys. The channels are pre-programmed, but if I'm still having trouble I'll try to get the receiver to do a scan to see what bird I'm locked onto. Thanks!

 

[markchadwick]

Success!!!!

11822 is the strongest of the two and will bury the needle as soon as you get close ot it. 12120 I would use 12120 to fine tune for optimum signal Make sure the info programmed in the box is correct.


if you use a transponder that isnt active, you won't get any signal



make sure you are away from all metal objects. Those little compasses will screw up if its near metal
using the numbers for Chicago, the dish elevation is 40...azimuth is 194 and skew is +14. The LNB needs to be skewed or the signal wont come in (see below picture)

194 is a little off of dead south. Get in the vicinity and make SMALL movements and wait until the quality meter moves. Thats what you need. Signal really means noithing in FTA...Its quality that you need

Got off work early today, went to my mom's, set the Finepass receiver to the 11822 transponder, went up on the roof. Couldn't lock on until I realized my skew was set at 14.4 degrees clockwise (I had changed it from counterclockwise during my misguided earlier attempts and didn't change it back).
Changed to skew to 14.4 counterclockwise, went back to pointing, within 10 minutes I locked onto a 73 signal strength with a 69 signal quality. That was the best I could get with 11822, but I figured it was good enough because it was a cloudy day (I'm thinking on a clear day signals will be 10 points higher). Came back down, went inside, exited the installation menu and lo and behold! Got the tantv channels.
So thank you to all that responded, you've helped a guy make his mom very happy.

 

[Mr Tony]

cool

Some meters may read low. What quality level did you get on TanTV?

thats one more happy FTA member

 

[markchadwick]

meters

cool

Some meters may read low. What quality level did you get on TanTV?

thats one more happy FTA member

My quality level was about 3-4 points lower than my signal level (68 and 72, respectively, on an overcast day).
I couldn't read the instructions, because they were in Korean, but they listed the meters as being between "40-80%". So I think that the Finepass receiver I have has a max meter reading of 80, in which case my signal and quality levels are pretty good (I have not been back to my mom's house since then, but I'll try to go on a sunny clear day and see what my signal and quality levels are).
And there's been some light rain in this area and she hasn't called me to complain about the picture being out, so I think it's ok. Course, we'll see what happens in a real storm...

 

[sunelec]

I'm running 74 quality and 76 signal level for Tantv on both of my receivers. So you must be aimed pretty close.

 

[markchadwick]

not bad...

I'm running 74 quality and 76 signal level for Tantv on both of my receivers. So you must be aimed pretty close.

I figured I had a decent signal. Called my mom over the weekend, she said the rain and snow over the last week didn't interrupt the picture at all. Do you ever lose signal in bad weather?